Michelle Obama and George W Bush are close friends. She has even stated that she “loves him” and that he is sweet and kind. No one has attacked Mrs. Obama over this friendship.

I adore Michelle Obama. I think Bush was a terrible president. Their friendship has nothing to do with the public.

I’m just saying this controversy with Ellen seems overblown.

I fixed the link btw

The crux of the biscuit is dealt with further down in the article:

It was not about being civil. She should have said, "Yeah I missed the mark on that," and let it be.

It was about supporting the person who ensured the failure of our election system. W created the first step for the little man in Russia to use to exploit us.

And her willingness to be oh so impressed by the filthy rich is irritating. You too can be wealthy if only you would pander to those born into wealth. You too should be nice and polite to any filthy rich person around you even if they supported the torture of 14 year old boys.

Would she have been as nice if she had been sitting next to Epstein, after his first trial?

Is to present an image of a united America, no matter how much you may hate a person behind the scenes. I don't fault the Obamas for continuing to model that for the American people.

However, Ellen is under no such obligation. I'd be more sympathetic to her if she wasn't trying to pitch this, "We need to be nice to people with differing opinions" horseshit. I'm tired of hearing I should be nice to assholes.

but you seem to be saying that (1) Obama hates Bush behind the scenes and (2) what she is modeling is inherently bad.

As to (1) - I don't believe it. As to (2), if what she is modeling is inherently bad than you should be condemning her as vehemently as Ellen is being condemned.

So, no, I don't have to condemn the Obamas like I am Ellen. Too bad if you don't like it.

I can overlook it from Michelle Obama because, to a degree, it is expected of her.

Ellen should know better.

years ago. I am surprised you were unaware of this.

She was the youngest editor in Condé Nast history, and only the 2nd AfricanAmerican one.

It dumped eight tracking cookies on me for my short visit, despite my defenses against them.

Setting in my browser:

firms in the world.

or try to avoid the point?

sites and that my link is somehow dangerous. It has a chilling effect.

And I normally don’t love me someone who takes part in appalling actions.

Ellen rocks.

She came out when I was only one year old. Her actions is this greatly disappoint me.

I personally see it as a point in her favor.

wow

Has less to do with Bush than you think.

I have bright lines I draw in my life, and that crosses a big one.

You have made that point extremely clear. Over and over again.

Pretty sure it’s understood by all.

It's like sitting next to Epstein and being all buddy buddy.

Your false equivalency is a joke.

He may have had more hands on abuse, but where do you draw the line among the elite filthy rich?

How about Cheney is he an apt comparison or Kissinger?Both are war criminals with wealth dripping out and that seems to be a requirement for this friendship club of American oligarchs.

I’m a gay woman too, and that disappointed me.

I think Ellen now is all about being rich and famous.

The youth tend to me much more liberal than my age group (40's), and the other folks (65+). Many can not even stand the sight of having a Republican friend or talking to a family member who is.

Not criticizing you for your opinion, just stating some things so people can better understand things.

I grew up in London, and other than a very short time after being born in Los Angeles only lived for a couple years in the States. I have no close friends and no family members (all of them are non American) who are Rethugs. I knew a few at uni in California, and we did not get on so well, mainly over sexual orientation issues (they came from very bigoted families and hopefully I changed their minds a bit) and the war/security state. So good sleuthing.

Ellen is right.

Ellen to treat Bush?

Because he was responsible for many deaths, through illegal drone strikes.

She has treated Bush kindly, just like Ellen did. I guess you could say she was normalizing him too.

Interesting that you would attack Ellen and not them.

even though I love them both, they both did things in regards to the war criminal Bush I personally found to be disappointing

.... the friendly relationship between Michelle Obama and George W bush, complete with quotes and photos in another thread, the only thing I've gotten back in reply is............ crickets. That's what people do here when they get their ass handed to them. The silence is confirmation that I was right.

You just simply went silent, and I reached the only logical conclusion.

I think I've said all I wanted to say on this subject. Anything else would just be repeating myself. I think Ellen and Michelle will survive this just fine. Pretty sure this will just be a memory in a few days or so.

It was wrong when Michele Obama did it too.

There - ok?

.... and neither is Michelle Obama or Ellen DeGeneres. Where the fuck was the hue and cry and the dragging through the mud that Ellen DeGeneres is experiencing now over the years when people here knew for a fact that Michelle Obama had a close and friendly relationship with George W bush? I'll tell you where it was. It was conveniently tucked away because who in their right mind would shit on Michelle Obama? While Ellen DeGeneres is dragged through the mud, it is still tucked away out of willful ignorance to avoid reprisal at criticizing Michelle.

The bottom line is no one can condemn Ellen DeGeneres without condemning Michelle Obama for a lot more of the same thing.

Have you ever seen anything written here to the effect that Michelle Obama should be dragged through the mud for being friends with a mass murderer and war criminal, plus trying to normalize that person?

So, yeah, crickets, I guess.

Anyway, I'm even MORE disappointed in Michelle Obama than Ellen, now that I have this information.

She should know better than almost anyone the war crimes that monster is responsible for.

So, yeah, my opinion of Michelle is now in the toilet.

Thanks for replying.

But 2 wrongs don't make a right.

W encouraged and supported brutal and medieval abuse of prisoners. This support allowed for rape in our prisoners of war camps. We can not forget that and get all buddy buddy with these monsters.

.... still seem to be missing the point. Michelle Obama's relationship with bush has been widely known for years, but only until Ellen sat with him at a damn football game has anyone come forth and condemned her for it. I'm pretty sure the only reason that is happening is because some like myself have called out the hypocrisy. Michelle's relationship with bush has not been a well-kept secret that is only coming to light, and yet, she has gotten a free pass here on Democratic Underground for years. I don't know if the point I'm trying to make will ever be absorbed, but if it ever does sink in, it will be clear that people need to back the hell off of Ellen DeGeneres.

That club includes George W. Bush, Michelle Obama, and Ellen DeGeneres. Many are born into that club, but not all. Once you're in though, you're pretty much in, unless you do something really heinous. Being a war criminal like Bush or Henry Kissinger may or may not get you booted. Being a sex trafficker like Jeffrey Epstein may or may not get you booted. It's generally not for the likes of us to judge. The members of the club decide, and they take care of their own. The club also dictates social norms; their judgments become adopted and are fiercely defended by many of the hoi polloi even though they have no say or interest in the way the club operates.

There is a club, and you and I aren't in it.

Last edited Thu Oct 10, 2019, 09:30 AM - Edit history (1)

In my opinion, the cognitive dissonance on this side of it is that we have sides and views on a lower level and may not realize it.

There is a strata of society that transcends the divisions and polarization we get. If you are wealthy, famous, politically connected, etc., that is its own sphere of influence and has a realm of relationships of its own. Yes, you could call it elite.

Our biases come into play here. At a lower level of the social pyramid, WE may think that THEY are taking a side or betraying us, etc. WE would be right on this side of the coin and, of course, say THEY wouldn't do that because WE wouldn't do that and its a projection. A further examination shows that perspective may be false in some ways. Of course, there is infighting and rivalry among the residents of the upper crust, but to ignore the fact that class and status matter is rather naive. Class is oddly not a word in the common parlance these days in that sense. Most often you only hear "middle-class" as a vague, inclusive pocket that we prols tend to identify with as a means to indicate a status greater than low-class, (which has more than one meaning).

In fact, it is that dissonance that drives the Oligarchical destruction of democracy in the long-run. We spout and react while the politicians, moguls and stars who may appear in opposition, (the Spectacle, the show) get together to enjoy lavish parties or have fond friendships, perhaps having a good laugh at how convincing the show can be. It is a show.

That's something to take note of.

You have a knack for description of social issues.

It is nice to have affirmation or acknowledgement. Appreciated.

Oh, I am too cerebral for my own good, sometimes. I have done a lot of reading, (rather ancient here) and investigating as best I can and writing was once my forte. However, it is rather frustrating also because it seems like what I have accumulated is so very little in the sense of the sheer, vast amount of knowledge I do not have. So, it is humbling. I do encourage more reading and looking things up, though. It can be fun.

I hope what is offered is beneficial and inspires more in-depth understanding in these complex, tumultuous times. Understanding does offer some calm and clarity as a benefit.

And, of course, I have my biases and I present my opinions.

thanks for expressing this succinctly.

I award you my totally arbitrary award for the best comment on this topic.

I admire your clear and understandable description of an often taboo topic. Thanks

Last edited Thu Oct 10, 2019, 09:27 AM - Edit history (1)

as if it's just because he's a con that people are pissed.

half the country and entire religions day in and day out.

Bush Jr's lack of knowledge allowed neocons to hijack foreign policy and get us into endless wars in which hundreds of thousands of people have died. In addition, the GWB-GOP economic collapse destroyed many families.

Overall, his presidency had a horrendous impact. Still, I view him as more of a useful idiot than an evil mastermind. This is why we should always make sure the nominee of any major party is intelligent, qualified, and able to discern right from wrong.

I wouldn't even rate this a fart in Cat 5 hurricane...

In all seriousness, that is way too harsh.

I just posted another one of their articles in the Editorials & Other Articles Forum (it is from May... I found it under the #WorldMentalHealthDay on Twitter). Happy to see such quality work/contributions.

Rooting for Green Bay?!

NOW I'm done with her.

I was disappointed by Ellen. (not only by the W situation, but by her partnering with Walmart....) But on thinking about it, she did what I would expect her to do. She was true to her own philosophy, which she has built a very successful business around.

Ellen was not running the show in that situation.

She was invited. She went. She had no control over where she sat. Once seated, it would be ludicrous to make a scene about who your host sat you next to. You make the best of it and get through it.

What you DON'T do is piss on someone else, at the expense of your host, to make YOUR point.

Ellen is NOW obscenely rich. Good for her. She made her money, initially, on her own talents as a stand up comedienne, and had a really rough point during that roller coaster ride (the ELLEN teevee Show).

In making her money, if you have EVER listened to one of her stand up comedy routines, you will know that she NEVER makes her comedy at the expense of others. She NEVER resorts to obscenity or vulgarity. She is the only one I can say that of. At this point most comedians/comediennes USE the obscenity and vulgarity, usually for shock purposes, to make their comedy. It doesn't say much for the performer, and doesn't say much for us as an audience that we now expect it.

You could take any child to an Ellen performance.

So I am not going to take issue with Ellen in living her mantra of "be kind to one another". I am proud that, due to branching out to other efforts, she has achieved a level of wealth where she can do anything she wants. She is HUGE in supporting all sorts of charity causes, not to mention the gorillas.... I do find it very ironic that all those Walmart shoppers see her name every time they shop there. It is a low key, subtle brainwashing going on, and I hope she succeeds in chipping away at the hate many of them feel, for her, and us.


I never thought I could hate anyone more than Reagan. But W took my hatred to such a new level I was astonished at myself. And W can't hold a candle to the depth of hatred I have for the turd....

All of this to say, we need Ellens in our world.