Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
61 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Who wanted Trump to withdraw U.S. troops and abandon the Kurds? (Original Post) kpete Oct 2019 OP
Then why doesn't the Pentagon brass Ohiogal Oct 2019 #1
May be it is difficult to go against the boss? at140 Oct 2019 #3
Exactly right. hmanne Oct 2019 #5
In 1969 I had one of those "Woodstocks" to, but it only sang one note. patphil Oct 2019 #9
I wish I could have been there, hmanne Oct 2019 #11
Yeah, it happened about 60 miles from where I now live, but I was in the Air Force at the time. patphil Oct 2019 #36
Navy Corpsman assigned to a Marine Corps company. nt hmanne Oct 2019 #38
Brings back memories... Kingofalldems Oct 2019 #39
Some good, some bad. hmanne Oct 2019 #40
Looking like the Nationals might very well be going to the World Series. nt hmanne Oct 2019 #41
I was in Nam a year before you SaulofTucson Oct 2019 #42
Glad you made it back also brother. hmanne Oct 2019 #43
They serve the office, not the man. not_the_one Oct 2019 #17
Yes, they do serve the office, hmanne Oct 2019 #19
Yeah that's why Hitler happened. triron Oct 2019 #52
Nope. No meaning in the real world stopdiggin Oct 2019 #22
Even when there's treason? That's just insane. triron Oct 2019 #51
If Treason passes the test in SCOTUS, I am confident at140 Oct 2019 #59
Don't blame soldiers. Blame Congress KentuckyWoman Oct 2019 #7
Blame the Republicans in Congress. The Dems are working to change this. Kablooie Oct 2019 #24
Yup, need to place the blame for the republican retreat where it belongs Salviati Oct 2019 #55
You are right! eom at140 Oct 2019 #29
the military believe in the chain of command stopdiggin Oct 2019 #21
Thanks for saying that. Imperialism Inc. Oct 2019 #35
thank you bill, how, HOW would we ever have figured that out without you... pangaia Oct 2019 #2
And now, the redhats. ooky Oct 2019 #4
I'd list Putin and Erdogan in that order. eppur_se_muova Oct 2019 #6
Do you people forget that Erdogan threatened to cut off the money to louis-t Oct 2019 #8
It seems clear to me Putin's worried his Agent Orange's services may end prematurely SuprstitionAintthWay Oct 2019 #32
You know, kpete, my parents were PatrickforO Oct 2019 #10
Crimes against humanity! SCVDem Oct 2019 #12
At least they are getting their money's worth Major Nikon Oct 2019 #13
That's Kristol clear. dchill Oct 2019 #14
President of Russia dalton99a Oct 2019 #15
And ISIS. Also, ananda Oct 2019 #16
Treason. Trueblue Texan Oct 2019 #18
KICK orangecrush Oct 2019 #20
It was all done by a simple phony phone call! imanamerican63 Oct 2019 #23
Could Trump be tried for this as a war crime? Kablooie Oct 2019 #25
YES. Haggis for Breakfast Oct 2019 #33
Since Special Forces covert ops are often used for "American Interests" MarcA Oct 2019 #26
And Tulsi. RandySF Oct 2019 #27
Are Putin and erdogan duforsure Oct 2019 #28
This is playing into the hands of Putin busting up NATO...... mitch96 Oct 2019 #30
Once a bdamomma Oct 2019 #53
Yup! OhZone Oct 2019 #31
Who, over the course of decades, helped lay the groundwork for the rise of Trump? Bill Kristol. Garrett78 Oct 2019 #34
+1 leftstreet Oct 2019 #45
I appreciate anti-Trump sentiment, but I have little use for these Never Trumpers in denial. Garrett78 Oct 2019 #46
Birthday gift for Putin. BigmanPigman Oct 2019 #37
It's Erdogan's price for sitting on the Kashoggi audio. NT. citizen blues Oct 2019 #44
I know this was an obvious one for thinking people, but think of his following herding cats Oct 2019 #47
So Bill Kristol has found his soul and might be worried? YOHABLO Oct 2019 #48
Most of all Putty. triron Oct 2019 #49
I agree bdamomma Oct 2019 #50
we need to end America's perpetual wars mike_c Oct 2019 #54
"Unexpected" "Surprise" Decision? Not buying it. not fooled Oct 2019 #56
Plausible. triron Oct 2019 #57
You built this, buddy. calimary Oct 2019 #58
It looks like disndat Oct 2019 #60
And Iran. joost5 Oct 2019 #61

Ohiogal

(32,005 posts)
1. Then why doesn't the Pentagon brass
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 11:31 AM
Oct 2019

or his own party stand up to him? Why do they let him get away with this shit?

at140

(6,110 posts)
3. May be it is difficult to go against the boss?
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 11:48 AM
Oct 2019

Insubordination in military is a serious crime and results in a court martial.
It is ingrained into the brains of military people.
I can't think of any other reason.

patphil

(6,180 posts)
9. In 1969 I had one of those "Woodstocks" to, but it only sang one note.
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 12:46 PM
Oct 2019

I prefer the the real deal, 3 days of peace and love and music.

 

hmanne

(92 posts)
11. I wish I could have been there,
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 12:52 PM
Oct 2019

but, alas, I was up to my butt in jungle trying to stay alive.

Have a great Sunday.

SaulofTucson

(34 posts)
42. I was in Nam a year before you
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 09:10 PM
Oct 2019

& was spat out by Uncle in June '69. I could've gone to Woodstock but stayed home.
Glad you made it back.

 

not_the_one

(2,227 posts)
17. They serve the office, not the man.
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 01:26 PM
Oct 2019

If they can't make the distinction when it is as obvious as hell the turd is not serving the country, but Putin, AND lining his pockets, they shouldn't be in that position.

They, TOO, should be held accountable.

edit for spelling

stopdiggin

(11,316 posts)
22. Nope. No meaning in the real world
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 02:13 PM
Oct 2019

Military has been following orders that made them want to literally puke since the revolution (and beyond). They are supposed to. And that's what we want them to do. "Serve the office, not the man" is vivid prose .. and that's about it.
(Your argument might have greater weight if you were referring to a different action. This was an unpopular order from the president .. and nothing more than that. Nothing like illegal .. and nowhere close to an order that could be refused.)

KentuckyWoman

(6,685 posts)
7. Don't blame soldiers. Blame Congress
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 12:36 PM
Oct 2019

Congress, House and Senate both, need to do their job.

Despite the latest development with impeachment hearings, Don is still out on the golf course creating mayhem.

stopdiggin

(11,316 posts)
21. the military believe in the chain of command
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 01:51 PM
Oct 2019

with ultimate "authority" residing in the republic or the "citizen" We will be in VERY sad shape if and when the services decide they DON'T answer to civilian authority. Thank god this principle is driven home, and the brass believe in it at a fundamental level. This is on OUR heads, not the military. And think for a moment -- do we really want the military refusing to follow orders (say from the next citizen executive) that they do not like, or do not agree with? Real scary territory.
(And, yes, as is pointed out virtually every time the subject comes up -- there ARE a few exceptions where following orders is not part of the military code. It's exceedingly unlikely that they apply here.)

Imperialism Inc.

(2,495 posts)
35. Thanks for saying that.
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 05:01 PM
Oct 2019

People need to stop and think about what they are asking for once in a while. The last thing in the world anyone should want is for the military to develop a "mind of its own".

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
2. thank you bill, how, HOW would we ever have figured that out without you...
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 11:32 AM
Oct 2019



well, better late than never...

eppur_se_muova

(36,266 posts)
6. I'd list Putin and Erdogan in that order.
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 12:30 PM
Oct 2019

Erdogan may be a fellow dictator he admires, but to Anus Orange, he's probably more a FOV*.










(* Friend Of Vlad)

louis-t

(23,295 posts)
8. Do you people forget that Erdogan threatened to cut off the money to
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 12:41 PM
Oct 2019

dum dum from the building that he rents his name to? That's the only thing that motivates him.

32. It seems clear to me Putin's worried his Agent Orange's services may end prematurely
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 04:06 PM
Oct 2019

and he's recently cracked the whip on Trump. Get moving on the deliverables!

Between his fear of Vlad versus losing the $3 to $17 million per year licensing income Erdogan controls, as obsessed as Trump is with keeping his corrupt money flowing in, I'd still say he's more terrified of Putin.

PatrickforO

(14,576 posts)
10. You know, kpete, my parents were
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 12:49 PM
Oct 2019

WWII generation people. They believed firmly that there IS a right and a wrong, and that they could raise me to know the difference.

Trump just doesn't have that. He has no concept of right and wrong. An it isn't always relative as some academics claim - betraying a promise is wrong. Betraying an oath of office is wrong. Betraying this republic when what we should be doing is trying to make it better and more equitable is wrong.

Trump has done wrong, and now he's gone full-on traitor. He isn't even trying to hide his crimes anymore.

It is a relief for me, now, to see that we still have the decency as a nation to hold him accountable. I believe that if the senate refuses, under McConnell, to remove Trump after his certain impeachment, Americans will cause the Republican party to pay at the polls in 2020.

Sometimes, though, I wonder if this feeling of relief is based in reality or simply in my own hope.

 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
12. Crimes against humanity!
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 12:54 PM
Oct 2019

You do not have to give the order to commit genocide to be guilty.

Just light the match and watch.

A 9-11 event will not keep this disaster in office.

He is a sell out and traitor. Not a leader!

His followers need to be detained for unAmerican activities. Have you now or ever supported the Russians? If you support the orange ass, the answer has to be yes!

Where is our Joe McCarthy and HUAC? (Kidding)

dalton99a

(81,515 posts)
15. President of Russia
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 12:59 PM
Oct 2019
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/61540

Trilateral summit on settlement in Syria
September 16, 2019
President of Russia Vladimir Putin, President of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan and President of Iran Hassan Rouhani took part in a trilateral summit on the settlement in Syria.



Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
33. YES.
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 04:21 PM
Oct 2019

In the International Court (in The Hague), Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld were determined to be war criminals. You will notice that neither one of the EVER flies to Europe. Planes can be diverted. Criminals can be taken off flights and taken to The Hague for trial. I'm not saying that that would ever happen, but it IS a possibility. Would there be an international out cry ? Sure, but Milosevic and Karadzic were tried for their part in war crimes in the Balkans.

MarcA

(2,195 posts)
26. Since Special Forces covert ops are often used for "American Interests"
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 02:22 PM
Oct 2019

let them be used to pay Erdogan, Putin and M Bone Saws a little visit.

mitch96

(13,911 posts)
30. This is playing into the hands of Putin busting up NATO......
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 02:36 PM
Oct 2019

One NATO Ally against another.. Putin smiling... Putin troll farm messing with the US election.
Putin smiling.. Putin troll farm messing with BREXIT...... Putin smiling... tRump doing his bidding..
Putin smiling.. He's playing this scam like a $2 fiddle.. Ex KGB always KGB... YMMV...

m

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
46. I appreciate anti-Trump sentiment, but I have little use for these Never Trumpers in denial.
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 10:57 PM
Oct 2019

They either really can't see how they helped create the monstrous Republican electorate or they just don't want to see it. Either way, it's inexcusable.

They worship Reagan and somehow overlook all his dog whistling. It was inevitable that someone would come along and replace the dog whistle with a bullhorn after 50+ years of increasingly unhinged and downright cruel rhetoric and policy. They created a monster, the base of the Republican Party. Trump is merely a symptom.

They act like Trump just happened in a vacuum. Fuck that, and fuck Bill Kristol. Fuck Steve Schmidt. Assholes.

herding cats

(19,565 posts)
47. I know this was an obvious one for thinking people, but think of his following
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 11:00 PM
Oct 2019

I still dislike him but I'm grateful he's drawing them the maps they need to connect the dots.

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
54. we need to end America's perpetual wars
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 11:51 PM
Oct 2019

I loathe Donald Trump and look forward to his impeachment, but I support withdrawing American troops from Syria. They should not have been there in the first place. ISIS is the direct result of our anti-Ba'athist policies in Iraq. We invaded Iraq and began the chain of events that led us to today on the basis of trumped up lies and another weak Republican president's struggle for relevance. Americans should never have been there. There's nothing new here. Remember alliances like the mujahedin? The contras? The ARVN?

I want to end America's never ending for-profit wars of aggression. I want to throttle the military budget and reduce the military to a peacetime force. No other nation on Earth maintains armies around the globe for geopolitical influence like we do. Arms and military violence are our dominant exports. We cannot simultaneously call for an end to military aggression and continue to support alliances in proxy wars that have little to do with our national defense.

not fooled

(5,801 posts)
56. "Unexpected" "Surprise" Decision? Not buying it.
Mon Oct 14, 2019, 12:30 AM
Oct 2019

I think red don had his marching orders from vlad at the Helsinki meeting to withdraw the troops. erdogan's call was just the final push.

red don and his puppetmaster have been plotting to do this for a long time.


calimary

(81,304 posts)
58. You built this, buddy.
Mon Oct 14, 2019, 05:05 AM
Oct 2019

You and your profit-whoring runaway capitalists from hell. Aka republi-CONS.

Bill Kristol, all you holier-than-thou money-grubbing conservatives. YOU built this. Worshipping greed, never-ending tax cuts because you feel no sense of obligation to contribute to the greater good. No sense of duty and sacrifice and compassion. Just “what’s in it for me”. Taking a knee to the “god” of selfishness. Your “holy book” came from the bitter and shriveled Ayn Rand. And Hillary was surely going to bring about the end of the world. And you care about the Kurds now? You’re upset about the Putin connection? You’re “shocked, shocked I tell you”?

trump was YOUR dream date. The (so-called) president you always wanted who’d give you all the regressive knuckle-dragger judges and tax cuts you wanted. It didn’t occur to you that his conjoined twin was Beelzebub. Now the way YOU think things should be has stunk up the joint too foul even for you.

People like YOU are the very reason he’s where he is now.

I flush your tears straight down the commode.

disndat

(1,887 posts)
60. It looks like
Mon Oct 14, 2019, 09:46 AM
Oct 2019

Trump is preparing for his exit and is paying up what he owes to Putin to keep in Putin's good graces.

joost5

(421 posts)
61. And Iran.
Mon Oct 14, 2019, 11:11 AM
Oct 2019

They are a huge supporter of Syria and will be able to shape that country much better now with US involvement.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Who wanted Trump to withd...