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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 12:15 PM Oct 2019

The protests in Ecuador

as far as I can tell from the media, are a bunch of environmental activists burning buildings down to pressure the government to revive fossil fuel subsidies.

Stuff like this is why I don't really have much optimism about climate change. The French sneer at us for leaving Kyoto, but then when Macron takes even the first tentative steps towards enacting it, it produces the gilets jaunes.

The global middle class will never allow governments to let the cost of fossil fuels reflect their actual environmental price. Which means we will never solve this.

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The protests in Ecuador (Original Post) Recursion Oct 2019 OP
Same here. Mike 03 Oct 2019 #1
The closest thing I've found to optimism is the "Strong Towns" people Recursion Oct 2019 #2
Why we and the world need substantial wealth KPN Oct 2019 #3
Follow the money, indeed. Backseat Driver Oct 2019 #4

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
1. Same here.
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 12:34 PM
Oct 2019

The last few books I've read--Carbon Ideologies, The Water Will Come, Uninhabitable Earth, Drying Up and (currently) The Geography of Risk--offer very little cause for optimism. Whether we're talking about nations or states or cities, the opposition is designed into government, and corruption is designed into opposition. People think only short-term. They want to keep their jobs, they want to rebuild their homes exactly where they were flattened by the ocean, they want a water permit, they want a construction permit where it makes no sense. I don't know how we get out of this.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
2. The closest thing I've found to optimism is the "Strong Towns" people
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 12:52 PM
Oct 2019

And that's "optimism" that is saying a third of the US's towns need to disappear and we need to let half of our infrastructure just crumble.

KPN

(15,646 posts)
3. Why we and the world need substantial wealth
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 01:07 PM
Oct 2019

taxes. Sustainability of the planet and human-kind depend upon balance.

Backseat Driver

(4,393 posts)
4. Follow the money, indeed.
Sun Oct 13, 2019, 01:13 PM
Oct 2019

Here's the biggest "corundum" of the world; the root of every problem. No matter what system of government: How to trade, barter, buy, and sell valuables for worldwide peace and stability. A fine imaging, John, but literally quite scary...

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