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EleanorR

(2,393 posts)
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:22 PM Oct 2019

That's not Adoption, That's Kidnapping






As the deportees were led off the plane onto the steamy San Salvador tarmac, an anguished Araceli Ramos Bonilla burst into tears, her face contorted with pain: “They want to steal my daughter!”

It had been 10 weeks since Ramos had last held her 2-year-old, Alexa. Ten weeks since she was arrested crossing the border into Texas and U.S. immigration authorities seized her daughter and told her she would never see the girl again.

What followed — one foster family’s initially successful attempt to win full custody of Alexa — reveals what could happen to some of the infants, children and teens taken from their families at the border under a Trump administration policy earlier this year. The “zero-tolerance” crackdown ended in June, but hundreds of children remain in detention, shelters or foster care and U.S. officials say more than 200 are not eligible for reunification or release.

Federal officials insist they are reuniting families and will continue to do so. But an Associated Press investigation drawing on hundreds of court documents, immigration records and interviews in the U.S. and Central America identified holes in the system that allow state court judges to grant custody of migrant children to American families — without notifying their parents.



https://apnews.com/97b06cede0c149c492bf25a48cb6c26f
39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
That's not Adoption, That's Kidnapping (Original Post) EleanorR Oct 2019 OP
K&R for visibility. We've been saying this all along. nt tblue37 Oct 2019 #1
Yes, that's kidnapping. Arkansas Granny Oct 2019 #2
Sure, it's kidnapping. And the government is behind a black market... TreasonousBastard Oct 2019 #3
And sex trafficking kimbutgar Oct 2019 #4
+1000 alwaysinasnit Oct 2019 #10
That first wave after child depression at the border seemed very chaotic who was lunasun Oct 2019 #27
That is rather bdamomma Oct 2019 #37
Look no further than Wellstone ruled Oct 2019 #5
This! Johnny2X2X Oct 2019 #20
This was their game plan from day one. Wellstone ruled Oct 2019 #25
I think we need to demand 2naSalit Oct 2019 #6
an immigration policy llashram Oct 2019 #7
People aren't actually reading past the headline. Igel Oct 2019 #19
I do understand llashram Oct 2019 #29
K&R. c-rational Oct 2019 #8
The link article is dated Oct. 9 2018 Marthe48 Oct 2019 #9
Thanks, and I agree EleanorR Oct 2019 #11
You're gonna love this then flying_wahini Oct 2019 #12
I just checked about bethany Marthe48 Oct 2019 #15
"Guaranteed Lawsuits" for $1000, Alex. Baitball Blogger Oct 2019 #13
More republican human trafficking. keithbvadu2 Oct 2019 #14
Human Trafficking tiptonic Oct 2019 #16
I've believed something like this.... dawnie51 Oct 2019 #17
Criminal charges for child trafficking should be filed against the US in the Iternation Court. nt avebury Oct 2019 #18
i hope the next legitimate president undertakes a massive effort to "undo" all this. Takket Oct 2019 #21
That's not just kidnapping, it's human trafficking. n/t ET Awful Oct 2019 #22
Shocking. Pepsidog Oct 2019 #23
i've been following the border situation wnylib Oct 2019 #24
These sites offer information on wnylib Oct 2019 #26
Personally, this is the worst thing Trump has done. LakeArenal Oct 2019 #28
+1, I would be pissed and mad but not shocked if there were mass graves or organ harvesting uponit7771 Oct 2019 #30
Special place in hell for all who participated in this nt lostnfound Oct 2019 #31
It's assimiliation -- aimed at bringing up these kids as white people. eppur_se_muova Oct 2019 #32
Exactly. The UN specifically calls out transferring child like this as a form of genocide. n/t whopis01 Oct 2019 #36
Betsy DeVos is promoting a private for profit, saidsimplesimon Oct 2019 #33
Somebody (maybe Putin) must have told Trump there was big $$$ in trafficking children under world wide wally Oct 2019 #34
It is genocide, according to the UN whopis01 Oct 2019 #35
This whole horrible bdamomma Oct 2019 #38
1250 more kids separated than initially reported EleanorR Oct 2019 #39

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
3. Sure, it's kidnapping. And the government is behind a black market...
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:38 PM
Oct 2019

baby operation.

We ask all the time how seemingly normal people manage to allow some of the moist horrible things to happen-- and this is just one example.

kimbutgar

(21,162 posts)
4. And sex trafficking
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:46 PM
Oct 2019

In June leaving Arizona by plane I saw something that still bothers me to this day. A woman had these children that were not hers (she was Asian) getting on the plane. I noticed 2 sets of girl twins and commented on it. The lady said one set were triplets and the boy was coming from LA. we were flying into Sfo The children wore brand new clothes and were holding dolls and they looked like they were distressed. They had seats in first class. I looked for them in the baggage claim center but never saw them again. But that look in their eyes really bothered me.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
27. That first wave after child depression at the border seemed very chaotic who was
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:31 PM
Oct 2019

assisting them too many hands they were passing through and distributed across the country
But from the start I suspected it was to lose children for various purposes and perhaps planned opportunity , an additional perk of the new trump laws
How many have still not been located from that first wave ? How many since?
Perfect victim parents -Poseibly limited money ,sent back to a stressful or dangerous location they came from and no longer in this country , likely limited English, maybe no contacts in the US .
What you saw >Sometimes your gut or senses say that ain’t right what’s wrong with this picture ?

bdamomma

(63,875 posts)
37. That is rather
Sun Oct 20, 2019, 12:09 PM
Oct 2019

suspicious, they are for sure trafficking children. I remember hearing something recently how the are trying to account the disappearance of (700) girls? I could be wrong.

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
20. This!
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 02:41 PM
Oct 2019

I’m in West Michigan, Devos has business ties with Bethany Christian Services. They are literally auctioning off migrant children.

There is true evil at play here and the media says nothing.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
25. This was their game plan from day one.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:17 PM
Oct 2019

And I think you could guess the Cult I mentioned. Got's ta repopulate the One and only church.

llashram

(6,265 posts)
7. an immigration policy
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 01:26 PM
Oct 2019

that was the creation of Stephen Miller. One of the shadow presidents advising the child sitting in the chair in the Oval Office.

Igel

(35,320 posts)
19. People aren't actually reading past the headline.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 02:39 PM
Oct 2019

The article's from October 2018.

The mother and daughter were separated in November 2015. Call them Araceli and Alexa, their first names. Araceli was sent back to El Salvador fairly quickly. The child was then labelled (to my thinking, incorrectly) an unaccompanied minor.

In 2016 custody of Alexa was awarded to an American family.

In December 2016 the situation was investigated, custody revoked, and the child ordered deported.

In January 2017 Trump was inaugurated.

In February 2017 Alexa was deported.

There's much not to like about how things were done in 2017 and 2018, but this isn't one of them. The only thing it does is say, "You know, under President Obama families were separated and, apparently his appointees engaged in kidnapping for the purposes of selling immigrant children into the sex trade." Now, I'm sure that people here don't *mean* to be saying that, but appending this particular style of commentary and claim to this particular example entails precisely that.

Because people aren't actually reading past the headline. It's not like it's War and Peace, in the original Russian and French and in old orthography. It's word count, Word tells me, is 3,723 exclusive of headline and credits.

Now, there are cases where this kind of thing could happen and I'd say, "Sure. Could be worse." There are still true unaccompanied minors, and minors who plausibly have no legit guardian with them as they cross. They should be declared unaccompanied. If they're young enough to give sufficient information to fairly quickly ID their parents, send them home. But often they won't, and in the past (by which I mean 2014 and 2015) the parents often sent them north to be with relatives who weren't their parents, friends who weren't their relatives, because "it's better there." Still, send them home if you can ID their parents. But some would not or could not give adequate information. Those you put in foster care and then adopt out. It's their choice as runaways (with nothing to be done about the perils of aiding and abetting runaways); and in the case of some kids, they just didn't can't give enough information.

llashram

(6,265 posts)
29. I do understand
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 06:05 PM
Oct 2019

the context, yet when trump was elected and Miller got his chance this type of situation exploded in children never being reunited with their families again. Many children deemed "unaccompanied" were actually snatched from their parents thrown into those cages-holding facilities-and a many many of the younger children were never sent back to their native countries and parents, just put into foster homes to await adoption. One reason for this happening was the Customs and Border Patrol paperwork was shoddy or altogether missing. While people may not read past the headlines, noted, I also have a long memory because I don't depend on the news cycle(s) of MSM for all my information.

People have been coming over the border for generations now and President Obama had to deal with this particular situation also, no doubts on my part. The one thing I can bet on is that immigrants under his administration were treated with compassion and children were not thrown into cages like animals. Unlike those thousands who have been caged in just the last 3 years. With a little research, it is easily found out who the author of this current administration immigration policy concerning brown people(s) on our southwest border has been. That is Stephen Miller, one of this current administrations shadow presidents.

Marthe48

(16,975 posts)
9. The link article is dated Oct. 9 2018
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 01:44 PM
Oct 2019

Even, so, I doubt that the people behind the policy and the separation of families stopped their policies.

Here is a link,also from 2018, about bethany childrens services, which has links to betsy devos, :

https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/06/26/bethany-christian-services-family-separation-betsy-devos/

flying_wahini

(6,606 posts)
12. You're gonna love this then
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 01:47 PM
Oct 2019

I’ve seen it several times when this comes up.
Also I have seen that this location of the home office is where the server that was connected to the “Russian hacks” and Betsy’s name keeps coming up.

[link:https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/06/26/bethany-christian-services-family-separation-betsy-devos/|

Marthe48

(16,975 posts)
15. I just checked about bethany
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 01:49 PM
Oct 2019

and added the same link to my post.

Why does she remind me of Delores Umbrage in the Harry Potter books?

tiptonic

(765 posts)
16. Human Trafficking
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 02:23 PM
Oct 2019

Lets be clear there is , lots of money in human trafficking. Pretty simple when u male all the rules..

dawnie51

(959 posts)
17. I've believed something like this....
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 02:29 PM
Oct 2019

from the beginning. The very young, the adaptable, being adopted for big bucks. Older, more troublesome kids, God only knows. This is some sick, evil shit. Follow the money, people. Someone (ones) are getting rich off this.

wnylib

(21,487 posts)
24. i've been following the border situation
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 03:53 PM
Oct 2019

with great concern and horror at the family separations and conditions.

DUers might like to know that there are some legitimate, liberal religious groups that have been involved for many decades in immigration programs and issues. They began long ago by offering assistance to members of their denominations abroad who wanted to come to the US.

As needs grew, they expanded to helping people beyond their own faiths who were refugees from wars, human trafficking, and human rights abuses. They've developed teams of lawyers, social workers, resettlement agencies, etc. They are advocating now for the southern border migrants with letters to local and national politicians to stop separations (they still occur),to reunite families, and to improve conditions for detainees.

They also provide legal aid for migrants and for people arrested in roundups. They provide for social, educational, and material needs of migrants and refugees. They are overwhelmed now due to the current policies.

I don't have links to their sites at hand at the moment. I'll look them up. Meantime you can find them in a search using the denomination name and the following words: immigration services, migrants, or related terms.

The 3 denominations that I know about are the Episcopal Church, the Lutheran Church, and the branch of Presbyterians known as PCUSA. The Lutheran immigration program is called LIRS. The Presbyterian immigration website has info links on what the border situation is and what people can do to help.

Of course all of these groups take donations to keep their work going.

BTW, Don't let the word "evangelical" in the Lutheran Church's name scare you off. It's related to Lutheran Church history in Europe. The ELCA is the liberal main group of Lutherans in the US. They are not fundamentalists.

The Catholic Church also has immigration programs but I don't know anything about them.

wnylib

(21,487 posts)
26. These sites offer information on
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:22 PM
Oct 2019

programs to aid migrants and refugees.

Presbyterian

https://pda.pcusa.org/situation/refugee-ministry

https://pda.pcusa.org/pda/resource/video-

My phone doesn't display the entire url for this second site. It's a video called "Locked in a Box" that traces migrants' experiences getting to the US only to be locked up on arrival.

Episcopal

https://episcopalmigrationministries.org


Lutheran

Just enter LIRS in a search.

I'm NOTadvocating for any of these religions. My concern is for the migrants and refugees. Many years ago I used ro teach English and US customs to newcomers to the US. Most of my students were native Spanish speakers from Puerto Rico and Latin Americsn countries. The Puerto Ricans were citizens of couse. My other former students are now naturaluzed citizens so they should be safe. They were all here legally AFAIK.

But if they had tried to come today instead of years earlier they might well have been.locked up because I know that some of them came as refugees.

So I'm glad to see that there are US organizations willing to do more than just complain about the border situation today. They are actually doing something about it.

LakeArenal

(28,820 posts)
28. Personally, this is the worst thing Trump has done.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:36 PM
Oct 2019

Nothing else is as shocking, reprehensible,
Unforgivable by any deity, cruel, inhumane, inhuman than this.

The scars on this generation of Latino children will mar their whole life.
The heartlessness for parents that have walked a thousand miles to save their children from this kind of horror. And now the horror is reality.

I’ll never ever understand or forgive this Senate and this Administration. Or any appointee to the SC or any ambassador that continues to work with and under this regime.

eppur_se_muova

(36,269 posts)
32. It's assimiliation -- aimed at bringing up these kids as white people.
Sun Oct 20, 2019, 10:25 AM
Oct 2019

Ask any Native American or Australian how it works. They have a long, sad history of being subjected to this.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
33. Betsy DeVos is promoting a private for profit,
Sun Oct 20, 2019, 10:28 AM
Oct 2019

thinly veiled criminal adoption scheme. Have they no shame, no concept of criminal behaviour, above the law?

world wide wally

(21,744 posts)
34. Somebody (maybe Putin) must have told Trump there was big $$$ in trafficking children under
Sun Oct 20, 2019, 10:49 AM
Oct 2019

the guise of adoption.
Maybe that IS what they discussed at Trump Tower.

whopis01

(3,514 posts)
35. It is genocide, according to the UN
Sun Oct 20, 2019, 11:23 AM
Oct 2019

From the 1948 "Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide", Article II, Section (e):

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with
intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as
such:"

...

&quot e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."


bdamomma

(63,875 posts)
38. This whole horrible
Sun Oct 20, 2019, 12:15 PM
Oct 2019

inhumane action will sooner or later surface when many of those migrants will appear and tell their horrid stories of how they were trafficked to other countries.

EleanorR

(2,393 posts)
39. 1250 more kids separated than initially reported
Sun Oct 20, 2019, 01:59 PM
Oct 2019

This article is from just a few days ago. Where are these children?

Health and Human Services Cmdr. Jonathan White told U.S. District Judge Dana Sabraw he believes a “final accounting” would show at least 1,250 additional kids have been separated from their parents before Sabraw issued an injunction stopping the family separation practice.


SNIP

“It’s going to be more challenging to track them down than the initial group of 471 parents who were deported without their kids,” Sabraw said.

Herzog said a group of nearly 100 attorneys have made more than 4,200 phone calls to parents and sponsors in their reunification efforts for the 868 children of possible new class members that have so far been identified.

About 436 sponsors and 225 parents have been reached.

Only 23 parents have been located in their countries of origin so far, Herzog said.

https://www.courthousenews.com/feds-admit-1250-more-immigrant-children-were-separated-from-parents/
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