Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Eugene

(61,900 posts)
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 10:16 AM Oct 2019

Founders Brewing closes Detroit taproom indefinitely amid racial discrimination lawsuit

Earlier DU thread: ‘I don’t know his DNA’: Craft brewery manager says he can’t confirm black employee’s race in discrimination lawsuit

______________________________________________________________________

Source: Detroit Free Press

Founders Brewing closes Detroit taproom indefinitely amid racial discrimination lawsuit

Brian Manzullo, Detroit Free Press Published 9:13 a.m. ET Oct. 25, 2019 | Updated 10:10 a.m. ET Oct. 25, 2019

Founders Brewing Co. has finally broken its silence. And it's closing its Detroit taproom "until further notice."

Michigan's largest brewery sent an email to ticket-holders of this weekend's highly anticipated Canadian Breakfast Stout release and party in Detroit that it's canceling said release and party while closing the popular Detroit taproom indefinitely "in light of the recent events" and due to safety concerns for its employees.

Those "recent events," of course, include the pending racial discrimination lawsuit that reached national news this week when a leaked deposition first posted by the Detroit Metro Times sparked a social media firestorm and led to some Detroit shops, bars and restaurants pulling Founders products from their shelves.

The CBS release in Grand Rapids, where Founders is based, will still go on as planned.

-snip-


Read more: https://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/nightlife/2019/10/25/founders-brewing-detroit-taproom-closed/2453196001/
19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Founders Brewing closes Detroit taproom indefinitely amid racial discrimination lawsuit (Original Post) Eugene Oct 2019 OP
Founders Brewing management claims it didn't know former employee was black dalton99a Oct 2019 #1
The old "I don't see color" defense... Wounded Bear Oct 2019 #3
What a shocker. That's why I got the hell out of Grand Rapids & wouldn't think of moving back. catbyte Oct 2019 #2
I'm still in GR Johnny2X2X Oct 2019 #4
I lived in the city of GR from 1978-2015. catbyte Oct 2019 #7
My husband's family lives in GR. Whenever I visit there, I'm creeped out Coventina Oct 2019 #9
It is highly segregated Johnny2X2X Oct 2019 #10
My daughter stayed there after graduating from GVSU LessAspin Oct 2019 #11
Another daughter interned at Prince Industries LessAspin Oct 2019 #17
Amway is just awful Johnny2X2X Oct 2019 #12
Pyramid Scheme LessAspin Oct 2019 #13
They learned to pay lawyers Johnny2X2X Oct 2019 #14
Grand Rapids and surrounding areas superpatriotman Oct 2019 #5
Oh man! Just in case anybody was thinking we live in a "post-racial" America.... klook Oct 2019 #6
Founders Brewing closing Detroit taproom "until further notice" amid backlash LessAspin Oct 2019 #8
It always starts at the top Johnny2X2X Oct 2019 #15
You make a very good point. Blue_true Oct 2019 #18
I enjoyed their Dirty Bastard Scotch Ale SharonClark Oct 2019 #16
Director of diversity resigns Johnny2X2X Oct 2019 #19

dalton99a

(81,515 posts)
1. Founders Brewing management claims it didn't know former employee was black
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 10:22 AM
Oct 2019

Founders Brewing management is claiming it didn't know former employee Tracy Evans, pictured here, was Black. Evans alleges "a racist internal corporate culture" at the company.

https://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/nightlife/2019/10/21/founders-brewing-company-racial-discrimination-case-tracy-evans/4056515002/

Schulz: When did you first meet Tracy Evans?

Ryan: 2011, 2012. We had mutual friends before working there, so —

Schulz: Okay. So you knew Tracy prior to his employment at Founders?

Ryan: Met a few times, yes.

Schulz: Okay. Are you aware that Tracy is black?

Ryan: What do you mean by that?

Schulz: Were you aware that Tracy is African American?

Ryan: I’m not sure of his lineage so I can’t answer that.

Schulz: All right. Are you aware Tracy's a man of color?

Ryan: What do you mean by that?

Schulz: Do you know what a white person is versus a black person?

Ryan: Can you clarify that for me?

Schulz: No. Do you know — you don't know what it means for someone to be a white person or a black person?

Ryan: I'm asking for clarification.

Schulz: You don’t need any. I can promise you that. We’ll keep the record as is. Someone’s skin color. A white —

Ryan: So that’s what you’re referring to?

Schulz: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Ryan: OK. Yes, I know the difference in skin tone.

Schulz: Are you able to identify individuals by their skin color?

Ryan: What do you mean identify?

Schulz: I mean have you ever looked at Tracy Evans in your entire life? Have you? That’s a — that’s a genuine question.

Founders attorney Patrick Edsenga: Objection. Argumentative. You can answer.

Ryan: Yes.

Schulz: And did you ever realize that Tracy’s skin color is black?

Ryan: That’s not — I mean, is his skin different from mine? Yes.

Schulz: How?

Ryan: What do you mean how? It’s a different color.

Schulz: Correct. And what is the difference of that color?

Ryan: It’s darker.

Schulz: And that means?

Founders attorney Edsenga: Objection. Vague question.

Schulz: I mean, we could — This could be a one-sentence answer, you know. So by your — I guess your testimony is you have no idea if Tracy is a minority, if he’s African American?

Ryan: I don’t know Tracy’s lineage, so I can’t speculate on whether he’s — if he’s from Africa or not.

Schulz: What do you mean lineage, from Africa?

Ryan: No. I mean, like, I don’t know his DNA.

Schulz: Have you ever met black people who aren’t from Africa?

Ryan: Excuse me?

Schulz: Have you ever met a black person born in America?

Ryan: Yes.

Schulz: And you were able — Have you ever met a black person who didn’t tell you they were black?

Ryan: Can you rephrase that?

Schulz: Is Barack Obama black?

Founders attorney Edsenga: Objection.

Schulz: To your knowledge?

Ryan: I’ve never met Barack Obama so I don’t —

Schulz: So you don’t know if Barack Obama is black? What about Michael Jordan? Do you know if Michael Jordan is black?

Founders attorney Edsenga: Objection.

Ryan: I never met him.

Schulz: So you don’t know? What about (former Detroit mayor) Kwame Kilpatrick?

Ryan: Never met him.

Schulz: To your knowledge, was Kwame Kilpatrick black?

Ryan: I —

Schulz: You don’t know?

Ryan: I don’t know.

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
4. I'm still in GR
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 10:32 AM
Oct 2019

City is pretty cool, but the suburbs are mostly Right Wing racists and Christian Reformed Devos clones.

Founders is a really forward thinking company in terms of sustainability and building a local business. They've taken zero waste to the Nth degree and should be proud of that. But this racism is not surprising, it's the norm in Michigan for Conservative whites to be virulent racists.

That corporate leadership is still sticking up for this manager tells you everything you need to know, they approve of his racism.

catbyte

(34,402 posts)
7. I lived in the city of GR from 1978-2015.
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 11:01 AM
Oct 2019

I just got sick of every other building being named "De Vos" this and "Van Andel" that. I worked at GVSU for 34 years and was just fed up with the whole Dutch Mafia vibe. Every building I worked in had pictures of those cretins smacking me in the face every morning. When I became eligible for early retirement, I took it. Yes, there are some good restaurants and cool events, but not enough to overcome the overarching Amway presence. I moved to Lansing/East Lansing and I'm much happier. Not a De Vos or Van Andel anything in sight. It's not all bad, but I am glad I'm out. And I don't miss the traffic. Here in Lansing, we have a "Rush Hour 10 Minutes."

Coventina

(27,121 posts)
9. My husband's family lives in GR. Whenever I visit there, I'm creeped out
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 11:07 AM
Oct 2019

by the total lack of diversity.

Everybody is SO WHITE!

It freaks me out.

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
10. It is highly segregated
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 11:17 AM
Oct 2019

There are vibrant minority communities in GR, but they are oppressed and their basically harassed non stop if they leave their "own neighborhoods".

LessAspin

(1,154 posts)
11. My daughter stayed there after graduating from GVSU
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 11:17 AM
Oct 2019

She likes it but I completely agree with your take on the area.

LessAspin

(1,154 posts)
17. Another daughter interned at Prince Industries
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 02:31 PM
Oct 2019

What was Prince Industries in Holland Michigan at least. The company that belonged to DeVos' infamous brother Erik Prince. Just one big incestuous cluster****

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
12. Amway is just awful
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 11:20 AM
Oct 2019

It's a scam, always has been. Devos and Van Andel are reported to be philanthropic, but they never give without strings attached, ever! They gave $10 Million for the naming rights to the arena down town, taxpayers footed the other $70 Million, but that $10 Million came with a price tag, a 25 year contract to have management rights to the arena, they made many times their money back on that. Even their children's hospital is a money maker.

Calvinism is at the heart of West Michigan, it teaches some really messed up things about rich and poor, they literally teach that rich people are rich because they are virtuous and the poor are poor because they are sinners.

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
14. They learned to pay lawyers
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 12:41 PM
Oct 2019

They spent their money on lawyers rather than on developing an honest business. They learned that they can run a pyramid scheme just as long as they kept teams of lawyers on retainer. They've been sued by every local, state, and federal government agency on earth, but they keep getting to operate. It's a pyramid scheme, in the purest form of the term.

superpatriotman

(6,249 posts)
5. Grand Rapids and surrounding areas
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 10:34 AM
Oct 2019

Are full of white nationalist groups, militias and other assorted bumpkin scoundrels

klook

(12,157 posts)
6. Oh man! Just in case anybody was thinking we live in a "post-racial" America....
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 10:50 AM
Oct 2019

I am embarrassed to admit that, although I enjoy various craft beers, I didn't know about this case. Employees actually used the n-word in the presence of this black employee and suffered no consequences?


Inexcusable. I've bought some of their beers in the past but won't be doing so again.

LessAspin

(1,154 posts)
8. Founders Brewing closing Detroit taproom "until further notice" amid backlash
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 11:06 AM
Oct 2019

At the very least these guys are assholes...

Taproom staff are organizing a peaceful protest of the Cass Corridor brewery on Saturday

by Brenna Houck@EaterDetroit Oct 25, 2019, 8:03am EDT

After several days of silence, Founders Brewing Company announced in an email to ticket holders early Friday morning that it is canceling its Canadian Breakfast Stout (CBS) beer release at the Detroit taproom and closing the Detroit location “until further notice.” The company cites concerns over employee safety at the Cass Corridor taproom.

Founders has faced mounting criticism this week related to a racial discrimination lawsuit filed in 2018 by a black former employee Tracy Evans. On Monday, a transcript leaked of a deposition by Founders Brewing Company’s Detroit general manager Dominic Ryan. Evans alleges in the claim that the company mishandled multiple racist incidents at the brewery’s Grand Rapids and Detroit locations. Evans claims that he was passed over for promotions despite being more experienced than other candidates and fired after filing a complaint with human resources. Founders argues that Evans wasn’t discriminated against and was fired for poor job performance.

Ryan, who allegedly took part in Evans’ firing, stated in the leaked deposition that he did not know if Evans was black and did not know the race of public figures such as Barack Obama and Michael Jordan.

A tipster provided screenshots of the CBS party cancelation email. The message was also shared by recipients on Facebook beer forums. Founders Brewing Company writes in the email: “In light of the recent events and, more importantly, out of concern for our employees’ safety, we have decided to close the Detroit taproom from Friday, October 25 until further notice.”

The email is displayed as a screenshot. It states that the Detroit event has been canceled and that ticket holders will receive refunds. The Detroit location is closed until further notice due to threats.

An email sent by Founders Brewing Company to CBS release party ticket holders on Friday, October 25.

This was scheduled to be Founders’ final release of CBS ever. The brewery announced in August that in conjunction with its acquisition by Mahou San Miguel in Spain, it was discontinuing the CBS label. The Grand Rapids CBS release will go forward as planned and Detroit ticket holders will receive full refunds, according to the message. A wider release of CBS will go forward on Friday, November 1. While details were not provided regarding the “concerns over employees’ safety. Eater has reached out to Founders for more information.

A person identifying themselves as a Detroit taproom employee Heather O’Brien shared a post calling for a protest to the Detroit Fall Beer Festival events page on Facebook on Thursday afternoon. The flyer asks community members to “Join Founders Detroit Employees in a peaceful protest to address discrimination against Minorities/LGBTQ+/Women in the workforce. We are committed to the community and here to set things straight.”

The flier says “Join the cause” and lists details of the event with a photo of street art that says “We are Detroit.”

A flier calling for a peaceful protest near Founders’ Detroit taproom. Image provided through tipline

The demonstration is set to take place near Founders’ Detroit taproom at the intersection of Charlotte and Cass Avenue at 11 a.m. on Saturday, October 26. Eater has reached out to O’Brien for further details. O’Brien writes in her post that employees have faced threats resulting from the turmoil at Founders this week:

We are Detroit Founders employees. Some of us have been threatened, some professional lives are being destroyed, some of us feel this will scar our professional reputations and know that this will (and has) affected our jobs. We are Detroit Founders Employees, WE as a team are not racists and we need support in proving that WE are Detroit, not Founders. We are asking for a peaceful protest. We are asking for signage, we are going to wear black in solidarity. We ask for your very peaceful support.

In conjunction with the cancelation of the CBS party in Detroit, Founders’ co-founders Mike Stevens and Dave Engbers released a joint statement on the company’s website on Friday morning. In the statement, Stevens and Engbers apologize to their employees “for all of the negative attention,” and write that Founders has “committed to work closely with them to make any changes to the company that need to be made to ensure a positive future.”

On Wednesday, Founders withdrew from the Detroit Fall Beer Festival, which was scheduled to take place this weekend. Stevens and Engbers write that Founders “wouldn’t serve as a distraction, given all of the recent headlines,” and for the “safety of our employees.” The pair do not address the cancelation of the CBS event or the temporary closing of the Detroit taproom.

Since news of the transcript broke on Monday, many bars and restaurants in the area say they will no longer serve Founders on their menus. At least one brewery, Eastern Market Brewing Company, pulled out of the Detroit Fall Beer Festival on Monday in order to bring attention to the issues of diversity and inclusion in the industry.

Read Founders full statement below:

To our Customers and Communities:

We understand that we have built our company because of the support of our customers – who are really more than that. They’re our fans. They’re the reason that Founders exists and has seen the growth it has over the years.

Over the course of 22 years, we’ve created a company and a culture that was built on the very basis that beer is the conduit that brings people together. It connects us and celebrates people from all different backgrounds.

First and foremost, we apologize to our more than 600 employees – who work hard every day to make and serve some of the best beer in the world – for all of the negative attention. We have committed to work closely with them to make any changes to the company that need to be made to ensure a positive future. Those conversations are underway.

Because of the pending litigation that has received so much attention of late, we can’t talk any more specifically about the lawsuit that has been in the news. But we want to tell our customers in Detroit, in Michigan and around the country that seeing the integrity and value system of Founders being questioned is one of the hardest things we have ever experienced.

We had been advised not to talk about any of this, even as allegations have been cast in our direction. But we realize we need to talk about this now.

Whatever falls short – according to our culture bringing people together and standards – will be fixed. Our Founders Family will point us in the right direction.

To our local customers – please know that we are committed to Michigan and expanding our presence to Detroit because of the people here, from all walks of life, who come together around the aspects of life they enjoy. We want to continue to earn the trust it takes to be one of those.

To beer enthusiasts everywhere – we want to continue to earn your support.

To the restaurants and bars that serve our products – we share your values. We’ll fix any issues. We want to continue to help you make your customers happy.

Additionally, we want you to know that we withdrew from the Fall Beer Fest in Detroit this weekend so that we wouldn’t serve as a distraction, given all of the recent headlines. We made that decision with the safety of our employees in mind. It was with the best of intentions – for our company, our industry and the city. We look forward to participating in future years.

Thank you,

Mike Stevens and Dave Engbers

Co-Founders

https://detroit.eater.com









Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
15. It always starts at the top
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 12:47 PM
Oct 2019

A corporations culture always starts at the top. This is not single bad apple behavior, but it's a culture that starts from the top, this was tolerated at all levels of Founders or it wouldn't have been tolerated at these 2 separate locations.

Not sure if the people who started Founders are racist, but they definitely allowed this culture to flourish for many years.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
18. You make a very good point.
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 04:59 PM
Oct 2019

Even if top executives don't hold racial feelings, they often are too cowardly or too detached to confront racial issues below them. They put words on the company correspondence about being equal opportunity, but not one word rings true in practice. They may hire "diversity" directors, but those people are typically the types that are going to go along and not push for true inclusion.

The situation won't end until a critical mass of POC and women gain ownership stakes in companies that are big enough to allow them to fire boards of directors and CEOs for not taking equal opportunity in employment, mentoring and promotion seriously.

SharonClark

(10,014 posts)
16. I enjoyed their Dirty Bastard Scotch Ale
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 01:56 PM
Oct 2019

Now it just tastes sour and bitter like their craft brewing manager.

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
19. Director of diversity resigns
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 03:44 PM
Oct 2019
https://www.woodtv.com/news/michigan/founders-director-resigns-saying-she-was-ignored/

It's becoming crystal clear that this wasn't an isolated incident, this is who Founders is. I live in GR and know someone who works in the office there, I wonder what her take is.
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Founders Brewing closes D...