Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 10:49 AM Oct 2019

Before it was called "The Deep State" it was known as Civil Service

Sane people still know that's what it is, career professionals in service to their nation and beholden to its Constitution. Before the United States enacted Civil Service laws starting in 1871 our government was organized in a different manner. It was widely called "the spoils system" as in "to the winner goes the spoils". Quoting Wiki here:

In the early 19th century, government jobs were held at the pleasure of the president — a person could be fired at any time. The spoils system meant that jobs were used to support the political parties. This was changed in slow stages by the Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act of 1883 and subsequent laws. By 1909, almost two thirds of the U.S. federal work force was appointed based on merit, that is, qualifications measured by tests.Certain senior civil service positions, including some heads of diplomatic missions and executive agencies, are filled by political appointees.


Enactment of the Civil Service system was one of the preeminent political reforms in American history. It drained the patronage driven swamp. It rewarded expertise and experience over loyalty and money. It curbed the excesses of "pay to play", though it did not eliminate them entirely. For example Linda McMahon, owner of McMahon Ventures and co-founder of the World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) empire, donated over $6 million to getting Trump elected. Much of that was donated to Trump-aligned super PACs, such as Future45 and Rebuilding America Now. McMahon was then appointed administrator of the U.S. Small Business Administration.

But it is in the Pentagon, the Intelligence Community, and the State Department where right wing conspiracy hawks typically see the "Deep State" lurking behind every briefing memo. If one defines "The Deep State" as representing the true interests of the American people over the narrow partisan interests of a political leader or party seeking to consolidate their power, they may well have a point. The American people are well served when people who advise our leaders on consequential courses pf action actually know what they are talking about.

In regards to the State Department in particular, where "some heads of diplomatic missions" are "filled by political appointees" one need look no further than at Gordon Sondland, a Portland hotelier appointed ambassador to the European Union after donating $1 million to Trump's inauguration. By the most charitable reading possible, Sondland's inexperience at high stakes diplomacy allowed him to be duped into pursuing Trump's political objective's over the national security interests of the United States in Ukraine. Either that or Sondland was a willing and compliant tool. Neither option speaks well for the eradication of "The Deep State" so that political appointees can singlehandedly oversee Americas interests on the world stage

The forces that rail against "The Deep State" today are the rightful heirs of Boss Tweed, Tammany Hal, and every partisan political machine in America that rewards party loyalty with government jobs. America experimented with patronage driven government, and America rejected it. America opted for a Civil Service system instead, and it helped us become a great nation. Now it seems the President wants to Make America Corrupt Again.
10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Before it was called "The Deep State" it was known as Civil Service (Original Post) Tom Rinaldo Oct 2019 OP
K&R UTUSN Oct 2019 #1
Yes. BumRushDaShow Oct 2019 #2
K and R Hugin Oct 2019 #3
Reclaim the language Skidmore Oct 2019 #4
It should be called the "Stable State" instead. MineralMan Oct 2019 #5
True. the absolute bedrock. As opposed to the so called "stable genius ". n/t Tom Rinaldo Oct 2019 #7
I remember as a young person Baked Potato Oct 2019 #6
As it was shall it be again. My memory is the same. A sea change is on the horizan Tom Rinaldo Oct 2019 #9
We must reestablish confidence in Government Baked Potato Oct 2019 #10
we need safeguards against a rogue branch upending long-term policy Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2019 #8

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
2. Yes.
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 11:36 AM
Oct 2019

The Civil Service system, not only enacted federally, but in state and (large) municipal locations, eliminated the "patronage" system for rank and file government jobs. The system does still allow for limited "patronage" - with defined positions that can be appointed in a partisan fashion and/or with stipulations that some number of appointees might be required to be set aside for selection to represent a minority party (often seen for "Commissions" or "Boards", etc).

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
5. It should be called the "Stable State" instead.
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 11:42 AM
Oct 2019

Our federal Civil Service system helps to guarantee some sort of continuity in how the government operates. Free of political influence, our civil servants are the people who do all of the work of government.

They should be praised, not attacked, by every President.

Baked Potato

(7,733 posts)
6. I remember as a young person
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 01:04 PM
Oct 2019

the Civil Service was the height of good jobs with good benefits. There were tests to work at the Post Office and companies were out there just to prepare people to pass them. It was considered honorable and prestigious to work for the Government. Being a National Park Ranger was once at the top of my lists of careers.

Now, of course, times have changed. The Republicans have conquered and divided Americans and made those in the private sector despise Government employees out of jealousy.

Stupid MAGATs should realize the America they want back was an America full of good Civil Service jobs. Jobs that hold America together.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
9. As it was shall it be again. My memory is the same. A sea change is on the horizan
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 02:28 PM
Oct 2019

The values of most millennial voters stand in stark contrast to those MEGA votes. Public service will be honored again if we can survive this presidency and today's Republican Party.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,355 posts)
8. we need safeguards against a rogue branch upending long-term policy
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 02:07 PM
Oct 2019

We have a rogue Executive branch that has destroyed our reputation abroad in 3 years. This should not be possible.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Before it was called "The...