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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBREAKING (!): Judge rules the House is entitled to Mueller grand jury material. Huge win
BREAKING (!): Judge rules the House is entitled to Mueller grand jury material. Huge win for Judiciary Committee / Dems.Link to tweet
klook
(12,157 posts)Thanks for the info!
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Meanwhile, the materials will not be forthcoming.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)usaf-vet
(6,189 posts)or will he look to his legacy and uphold the lower court ruling?
I'm no attorney but I seem to remember that I read there is some standard regarding access to Grand Jury materials for Congressional Committees. Am I mistaking? And under normal circumstances, the congressional committee would already have had it.
The delay has been because Trump and Barr have something to hide?
Roland99
(53,342 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)democrats can find a lot off that out merely by suggesting it.
for eg asking sam nunberg details about his comment (new york mag 4/3/16) that he "listened to 1000s of hours of talk radio" in 2014, the same year a russian troll said they "got lists of topics to write about". for eg did he listen to it from the same states the indicted russians went to? why is "hannity" completely redacted in the glossary even tho he should be there between graf and hawker? corsi and stone and manafort are long time talk radio 'operators' - were they only there re wikileaks? they weren't social media geeks. corsi has been a tool a long time- feeding swiftboating, benghazi, and ebola bullshit for years - why wouldn't the russians feed him too?
there's a lot of evidence the russians have been using talk radio since at least 2008 - democrats need to start mentioning it to get media checking this stuff out, instead of blaming talk radio's little sister fox for everything. when republicans finally see trump's enforcer limnbaugh on the ropes they'll be a lot more ready to turn on trump.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,732 posts)in only about 3 months, start to finish. It's possible to take a direct appeal to the Supreme Court, which is what Jaworski did. The court issued its decision only three weeks after the oral arguments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Nixon
Ordered that, that by October, 30, 2019, DOJ must disclose to the HJC: 1) All portions of Special Counsel Robert
S Mueller III's Report on the investigations into Russian Interference In the 2016 Presidential Election
(The Mueller Report).
tavernier
(12,392 posts)Happy Birthday toooooo meeeee!!
superpatriotman
(6,249 posts)Thats what will happen, you know?
dchill
(38,502 posts)Yeah, I know. But I can dream, can't I?
Qutzupalotl
(14,317 posts)almost anything is possible.
dchill
(38,502 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And don't think she wouldn't do it.
triron
(22,006 posts)So where would it go then? Could the judge have declared it wasn't appealable?
Patterson
(1,530 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)Like those represented by the Never Trumpers. No faith in Kavanaugh or Thomas, but perhaps Roberts will do the right thing like he did with the Obamacare is legal ruling.
markpkessinger
(8,401 posts)Surely you jest!
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,732 posts)that is to say, Constitutional originalists. If you're one of those, you're going to stick to the text of the Constitution and established precedent, according to which Trump loses.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)"they'll get the grand jury material," now that a court has ordered DOJ to turn over the materials are saying "Whomp, whomp... It doesn't matter ... Whomp whomp ... Barr won't comply ... Whomp whomp ... the Supreme Court is corrupt ... Whomp whomp."
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,732 posts)Sooner or later I expect that the Supreme Court will rule against Trump, notwithstanding the 5-4 conservative majority. Like I said before, conservative doesn't mean Trumpist. Congressional GOPers stick with Trump because they're afraid their nutball base won't re-elect them, but Supreme Court justices don't have that problem; they can't be fired and they don't owe Trump anything. A genuinely conservative justice is just as likely to rule against Trump in these subpoena cases as a liberal one.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)lame54
(35,293 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)Then what?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Jarqui
(10,126 posts)overseen by the chief justice and that they do not need to vote to start impeachment investigations, I think it is a really uphill battle for Trump & the DoJ.
They are asking the Judiciary to hive up their part in impeachment.
And they are trying to curtail the oversight of Congress.
If the DoJ were to prevail, the Constitution is badly broken because the Judiciary and Congress would have to give way to the Executive Branch and that usurps their ability to hold the executive branch to account - contrary to what the founders wanted.
the DoJ will drag it out to buy time but I doubt the Supreme Court is going to hand power to the Executive branch
Kablooie
(18,634 posts)there must be some pretty damning info in it.
Bill Barr, you are a has-been!
Karadeniz
(22,535 posts)Does this reflect some bipartisanship on this committee? I read that Collins is currently a military chaplain. Perhaps there is some respect for truth and integrity in the GOP!
Aside from this...I noticed Jim Jordan and Mark meadows at the Cummings funeral. They were relaxed and laughing at some light moment, just like normal human beings. If only we could see this side of them inside Congress instead of their rabid side.
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)Bi-partisan is not in his vocabulary.
blaze
(6,362 posts)There are memos and documents included.... including documents supplied by Doug Collins.
Karadeniz
(22,535 posts)orangecrush
(19,572 posts)dalton99a
(81,515 posts)While close scrutiny of the historical record undercuts that justification for the House resolution test proposed by Representative Collins, the more significant flaw with this proposal is as follows: while this test may address political legitimacy concerns, which are best resolved in the political arena, no governing law requires this testnot the Constitution, not House Rules, and not Rule 6(e), and so imposing this test would be an impermissible intrusion on the Houses constitutional authority both to determine the rules of its proceedings under the Rulemaking Clause, U.S. CONST., Art. I, § 5, cl. 2, and to exercise the sole power of Impeachment under the Impeachment Clause, id. § 2, cl. 5. This Court ha[s] no authority to impose, by judicial order, a particular structure on House proceedings. Mazars, 2019 WL 5089748, at *24. In Mazars, for example, the D.C. Circuit rejected the position that enforcement of a House Oversight and Reform Committee subpoena of a third-partys records related to President Trump and his business associates was inappropriate until the full House granted the Committee express authority to subpoena the President for his personal financial records. Id. at *24 (internal quotation marks omitted). Citing the Constitutions Rulemaking Clause, the D.C. Circuit explained that unless and until Congress adopts a rule that offends the Constitution, the courts get no vote in how each chamber chooses to run its internal affairs. Id.; see also Barker v. Conroy, 921 F.3d 1118, 1130 (D.C. Cir. 2019) (noting that making the Rules . . . [is] a power that the Rulemaking Clause reserves to each House alone (quoting United States v. Rostenkowski, 59 F.3d 1291, 130607 (D.C. Cir. 1995)). This Court likewise lacks authority to require the House to pass a resolution tasking a committee with conducting an impeachment inquiry.
Representative Collins shifts gears with an alternative challenge to HJCs petition, contending that, even if no House rule prohibits HJC from beginning an impeachment investigation without a House resolution, the House has not delegate[d] such authority to the Committee, and HJC has no powers except those expressly granted to it. Collins Mem. at 6. Pressing this point, he argues that the House has thus far delegated only legislative and oversight authority to the Committee, not impeachment authority, id. at 5, and, further, that the Speaker of the House may not unilaterally delegate to the Committee the Houses impeachment power, id. at 1314. These contentions are, at worst, red herrings and, at best, incorrect.
At the outset, the distinction drawn by Representative Collins between Congresss legislative and oversight authority and Congresss impeachment authority, is not so rigid as he makes out. Nothing in the Constitution or case law . . . compels Congress to abandon its legislative role at the first scent of potential illegality and confine itself exclusively to the impeachment process. Mazars, 2019 WL 5089748, at *18.37 In any event, the House has sufficiently delegated to HJC the authority to conduct an impeachment inquiry in at least two ways. Jeffersons Manualwhich under House Rule XXI govern[s] the House in all cases to which [it is] applicable and in which [it is] not inconsistent with the Rules and orders of the Houseprovides that impeachment can be set[] . . . in motion by a resolution introduced by a Member and referred to a committee as well as facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House. Jeffersons Manual § 603.38 Additionally, the full House has authorized, in Resolution 430, HJC to bring this suit and simultaneously granted HJC any and all necessary authority under Article I of the Constitution. H.R. Res. 430, 116th Cong. (as passed by House June 11, 2019) (emphases added).39
As to Representative Collins last point regarding the Speakers statement, HJC never claims that the Speaker possesses the power to authorize an impeachment inquiry solely by saying so. Rather, HJC points to the Speakers statement as evidence of the primary purpose of HJCs investigation. The Speakers statement is, in fact, highly probative evidence on that score.40 Even DOJ does not dispute that statements made by the House Speaker may be probative in evaluating the primary purpose of HJC inquiries, as DOJ too has relied on the Speakers statements in its arguments about satisfaction of the preliminarily to requirement. See DOJ Resp. at 3, 2627.
MFGsunny
(2,356 posts)Would you be kind enough to post a link to it, if you can? I'd like to read the whole thing.
Thanks in advance.