General Discussion

jpak

(41,758 posts) Sat Oct 26, 2019, 09:26 AM Oct 2019

Navy's $13 Billion Carrier Needs Another $197 Million in Fixes

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-25/navy-s-13-billion-carrier-needs-another-197-million-in-fixes

The Navy’s most expensive vessel is getting even costlier, as the service says it needs to add as much as $197 million more to correct deficiencies with the USS Gerald R. Ford aircraft carrier.

That includes completing the installation and certification of 11 elevators to lift munitions and other equipment from below decks that were supposed to be ready more than two years ago.

The previously undisclosed notification to Congress is on top of an extra $120 million identified in May 2018 to correct earlier deficiencies. The move last year caused the carrier to breach a $12.9 billion cost cap set by Congress in an effort to stop spiraling cost increases. The new request takes the carrier’s estimated cost to $13.22 billion.

<snip>

The carrier was originally scheduled for delivery in 2013 with deployment expected around 2018, but that date may be a late as 2024, a top service officer acknowledged this week. It was delivered in May 2017.

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20 replies

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Highlight:

Navy's $13 Billion Carrier Needs Another $197 Million in Fixes (Original Post) jpak Oct 2019 OP

ONE SHIP $13 BILLION? Sinful. Think of what good could be done with that money. CurtEastPoint Oct 2019 #1

When I used to work at the Pentagon... MrScorpio Oct 2019 #2

A friend worked in the Pentagon in Ilsa Oct 2019 #3

I left there in '94 MrScorpio Oct 2019 #5

My friend was physically abused by her superior officer and Ilsa Oct 2019 #7

Oh definitely MrScorpio Oct 2019 #10

Maybe you just don't understand the complexity RandiFan1290 Oct 2019 #4

Everything could be summed up in cost overruns, parts and maintenance MrScorpio Oct 2019 #6

They may need a few more years to figure them out RandiFan1290 Oct 2019 #8

Just in time for the next white elephant to leave the drawing table MrScorpio Oct 2019 #9

The munitions elevator SNAFU was due to "concurrency" jpak Oct 2019 #11

Pentagon Wars...one of the funniest movies I've ever seen... Wounded Bear Oct 2019 #12

It's only funny until you realize how true it is. TreasonousBastard Oct 2019 #13

As Jimmy likes to say, "If we couldn't laugh, we'd all go insane." Wounded Bear Oct 2019 #14

Promotion time - And then he can sit back and recommend improvements keithbvadu2 Oct 2019 #19

Similar to the Zumalt DDG-1000 fiasco soryang Oct 2019 #15

As a percentage of GDP, the Ford is on par with the HMS Victory launched in 1765 Kaleva Oct 2019 #16

The MIC Mendocino Oct 2019 #17

How much to install steam catapults? keithbvadu2 Oct 2019 #18

It can't sail and chew gum at the same time burrowowl Oct 2019 #20

CurtEastPoint

(18,652 posts)

1. ONE SHIP $13 BILLION? Sinful. Think of what good could be done with that money.

Reply to jpak (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 09:29 AM

Oct 2019

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)

2. When I used to work at the Pentagon...

Reply to jpak (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 10:09 AM

Oct 2019

I found out very quickly how to describe the place. It’s basically a five-sided donut where taxpayers poured money down its hole.

That was 30 years ago. It’s only gotten worse

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)

3. A friend worked in the Pentagon in

Reply to MrScorpio (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 10:16 AM

Oct 2019

trying to keep up with aircraft inventory. Told me the Navy didn't know where tens of millions in dollars of inventory were. And this was back 8n the 1990s.

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)

5. I left there in '94

Reply to Ilsa (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 10:23 AM

Oct 2019

My only saving grace was that I only did my regular Air Force personnel job. I couldn’t in a million years deal with a job where had had to work in the bureaucracy. That’s where souls went to die

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)

7. My friend was physically abused by her superior officer and

Reply to MrScorpio (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 10:32 AM

Oct 2019

she got the goods on him. She was transferred to a sweetheart job for the next year and then took early retirement.

I listened to retired Admiral Stravidis' interview on The Oath podcast. I didn't realize how political or devastating a single assignment could be, that the powers that be can kill your career with an assignment to nowhere. I suspect my friend's CO was stuck and pissed and took it out on everyone in his command.

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)

10. Oh definitely

Reply to Ilsa (Reply #7)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 10:39 AM

Oct 2019

I was lucky to make it 22 years and retire relatively intact

RandiFan1290

(6,239 posts)

4. Maybe you just don't understand the complexity

Reply to MrScorpio (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 10:21 AM

Oct 2019

of an elevator...

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)

6. Everything could be summed up in cost overruns, parts and maintenance

Reply to RandiFan1290 (Reply #4)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 10:25 AM

Oct 2019

Of course, it’s not supposed to work properly and cost an arm and a leg

RandiFan1290

(6,239 posts)

8. They may need a few more years to figure them out

Reply to MrScorpio (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 10:34 AM

Oct 2019

and another billion

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)

9. Just in time for the next white elephant to leave the drawing table

Reply to RandiFan1290 (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 10:37 AM

Oct 2019

jpak

(41,758 posts)

11. The munitions elevator SNAFU was due to "concurrency"

Reply to MrScorpio (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 10:43 AM

Oct 2019

i.e. we'll make it up as we go along.

They did not have a working electromagnetic elevator system when they designed the vessel - it was supposed to be developed and installed as the ship was built.

Concurently - like the EMALS catapult and landing systems...

Oops

Wounded Bear

(58,673 posts)

12. Pentagon Wars...one of the funniest movies I've ever seen...

Reply to MrScorpio (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 10:43 AM

Oct 2019

worth a look.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)

13. It's only funny until you realize how true it is.

Reply to Wounded Bear (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 11:14 AM

Oct 2019

Wounded Bear

(58,673 posts)

14. As Jimmy likes to say, "If we couldn't laugh, we'd all go insane."

Reply to TreasonousBastard (Reply #13)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 11:18 AM

Oct 2019

keithbvadu2

(36,836 posts)

19. Promotion time - And then he can sit back and recommend improvements

Reply to Wounded Bear (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 11:03 PM

Oct 2019

soryang

(3,299 posts)

15. Similar to the Zumalt DDG-1000 fiasco

Reply to jpak (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 11:36 AM

Oct 2019

Each Zumwalt now costs $4.5 billion—in addition to the $10 billion spent on development. Like the troubled F-35 and Littoral Combat Ship, the Zumwalt’s spiraling costs were due to the Navy’s ambition to integrate completely new technologies still being concurrently developed.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/navys-zumwalt-class-stealth-destroyer-has-one-big-problem-41807

So the real sunk costs in three ships is 23.5 billion dollars or almost 8 billion per ship.

The class of surface warships intended to replace Arleigh Burke class destroyers was cancelled for cost overruns.

Kaleva

(36,315 posts)

16. As a percentage of GDP, the Ford is on par with the HMS Victory launched in 1765

Reply to jpak (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2019, 12:11 PM

Oct 2019

Cost of the USS Ford, even with overruns, is comparable to other ships when viewed as a percentage of the building nation's GDP.

An analogy is hamburger. Being on SSDI, gross income (GDP), is about 15k a year. That prohibits me from buying hamburger except when it's on sale for $19.99 for a ten pound tube. For most people here, I imagine little to no thought is given to buying hamburger because their gross income is much higher then mine. And they buy it even though there are cheaper alternatives such as chicken and pork.