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mcar

(42,376 posts)
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 12:51 PM Oct 2019

Pierce: No, I Do Not 'Respect the Office of the Presidency'

No, I Do Not 'Respect the Office of the Presidency'
Of course a renegade president* should be heckled at a baseball game. It's the least we can do.

BY CHARLES P. PIERCE
OCT 28, 2019

I never have seen a politician yet who wasn't booed if he or she showed up at the ballpark. But, I have to admit, the reception given to El Caudillo del Mar-a-Lago at the World Series on Monday night in Washington, D.C., was a remarkable exercise of the First Amendment right to deliver the ol' bazoo. And the "Lock him up!" chant was a sauce for the goose moment to end all sauce for the goose moments. Nobody who sat through the orgy of unbridled hate in Cleveland in 2016 could see it as anything but a comeuppance richly deserved.

But the Civility Police never sleep. By Monday morning, a panel convened on Morning Joe was deploring the whole scene, and Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware had found something to meep about on CNN....

But Coons's argument is one I've heard all too often in my lifetime, very often as a dodge for inexcusable conduct and outright crimes. "Respect for the office" is a self-governing citizen's sin of idolatry. In that context, the Presidency is a graven image. Why should I respect the office of the president when the occupant so clearly doesn't? Why should I respect the office of the president when it serves as a clubhouse for cheap crooks and mountebanks? Guns don't kill people, we hear after every mass shooting, only people kill people. So, The Presidency doesn't commit crimes, only presidents do?

In my lifetime alone, from The Office of the Presidency, I have seen mass murder from the skies, torture, the overthrow of governments, burglaries and the cover-up of same, the selling of missiles to a terrorist state and the cover-up of same, the arming of distant murderers, and that was all before this president* even got there—and even he, with his exceedingly dim wits, saw the potential for high crimes that long had become inherent in the office.

So, no, I don't Respect The Office any more (or less) than I respect the Congress or the federal judiciary or the Department of Agriculture, for all that. Right now, all over the world, from Lebanon to Chile, hundreds of thousands of people are in the streets demanding a voice in their governments. Capital cities are being shut down. And we're all supposed to be alarmed that a renegade president* got heckled at a baseball game? For a country founded through acts of unruly dissent, that's as mild as milk.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a29610218/trump-heckled-world-series-respect-office-presidency/

59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Pierce: No, I Do Not 'Respect the Office of the Presidency' (Original Post) mcar Oct 2019 OP
"Why should I respect the office of the president when the occupant so clearly doesn't?" 3catwoman3 Oct 2019 #1
Exactly! mcar Oct 2019 #2
that is the truth. bdamomma Oct 2019 #23
Respect for the office is shown by booing RVN VET71 Oct 2019 #43
Hear, hear!! Hekate Oct 2019 #3
Disrespect is earned Jarqui Oct 2019 #4
Bravo Charlie malaise Oct 2019 #5
Respect is a two way street. Mr.Bill Oct 2019 #6
exactly. bdamomma Oct 2019 #24
How can I respect the office now, anyway? calimary Oct 2019 #7
"We're all under occupation right now." Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2019 #29
trumpty dumpty thinks that the mere holding of the office of the presidency garners him respect - iluvtennis Oct 2019 #8
Not only him mcar Oct 2019 #12
+++ agree. It's the same old shit of trying to "normalize" trump. haven't they learned anything iluvtennis Oct 2019 #16
(Rhetorical question): MurrayDelph Oct 2019 #9
Good question mcar Oct 2019 #13
Correct, and they seem to forget they did not respect Obama when he was President Perseus Oct 2019 #31
Seems to me Pierce's main point is not just trump, pangaia Oct 2019 #10
I think he means that respect is to the person, not to an office Perseus Oct 2019 #36
Caesar gets booed at the stadium and some apologetic senators... pbmus Oct 2019 #11
they don't like bdamomma Oct 2019 #25
This is the Crap that Pisses Me Off!!! blakstoneranger Oct 2019 #14
Drumpputin is not my Prez. kairos12 Oct 2019 #15
I got so mad at Abbey on The View today marlakay Oct 2019 #17
he is always bdamomma Oct 2019 #26
What is the point of the freedom of speech and freedom of assembly if not to protest? Politicub Oct 2019 #18
Yes! mcar Oct 2019 #32
I respect the office, just not the current occupant... Wounded Bear Oct 2019 #19
K&R, Most humans don't like racist child abusers !!! uponit7771 Oct 2019 #20
"respect the office" is a cheap dodge NastyRiffraff Oct 2019 #21
The chants were directed at the person, not the office. TNNurse Oct 2019 #22
That is a very good point mcar Oct 2019 #33
Eggsactly! MFGsunny Oct 2019 #37
Ted Bundy was a suicide hotline worker at one time. LiberalLovinLug Oct 2019 #27
Where was the "respect the office" outrage when he started the birther BS ? Katinfl Oct 2019 #28
Any office is only worthy of as much respect as the person occuppying it (n/t) Spider Jerusalem Oct 2019 #30
When has IQ45 ever done anything deserving of respect? sinkingfeeling Oct 2019 #34
Never mcar Oct 2019 #35
He's lucky we're not like the Chileans. rickyhall Oct 2019 #38
"The Presidency doesn't commit crimes, only presidents do" in response to gun-humper sophistry MadLinguist Oct 2019 #39
Respect must be earned Teach-only-love Oct 2019 #40
Bravo, Mr. Pierce. BHDem53 Oct 2019 #41
Donald Trump disrespects his office 24/7 and actively betrays his country every which way he can. dalton99a Oct 2019 #42
When Ike made HST cool his heels in the WH on Ike's inauguration day RVN VET71 Oct 2019 #44
Respecting the office is fine, by me. Aussie105 Oct 2019 #45
Baseball and the First Amendment oldtime dfl_er Oct 2019 #46
... mcar Oct 2019 #47
Well stated, as usual. nt Ferrets are Cool Oct 2019 #48
Charlie Pierce +100 EndGOPPropaganda Oct 2019 #53
Didn't the man who lives in our White House call it Corgigal Oct 2019 #49
K&R UTUSN Oct 2019 #50
I swore no oath to honor the office of the presidency nor the president Orrex Oct 2019 #51
Great commentary k&r n/t lordsummerisle Oct 2019 #52
Thank you Mr. Pierce tulipsandroses Oct 2019 #54
K&R ck4829 Oct 2019 #55
In a different country, Aussie105 Oct 2019 #56
He was in a secure box mcar Oct 2019 #57
I respect the Office of the Presidency, it's the asshole in that office I have zero respect for. Fla Dem Oct 2019 #58
i no longer call him the pRez. i call him that THING currently in the white house . AllaN01Bear Oct 2019 #59

3catwoman3

(24,054 posts)
1. "Why should I respect the office of the president when the occupant so clearly doesn't?"
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 12:57 PM
Oct 2019

Perfectly summed up in a single, pithy sentence.

RVN VET71

(2,698 posts)
43. Respect for the office is shown by booing
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 05:00 PM
Oct 2019

the s.o.b. who betrayed his country and its constitution to steal it.

Would these buttholes have said the same thing had a crowd of Germans in 1933 booed Hitler? "Oh, we may disagree with his politics, but its the Office of the Chancellor and must be respected?"

Jesus, are you all wore out weeping yet?

Mr.Bill

(24,330 posts)
6. Respect is a two way street.
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 01:38 PM
Oct 2019

Trump doesn't respect the majority of people living in this country. Why should they respect him?

calimary

(81,514 posts)
7. How can I respect the office now, anyway?
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 01:40 PM
Oct 2019

There isn’t a legitimately elected president occupying it.

We’re all under occupation right now.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,447 posts)
29. "We're all under occupation right now."
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 02:51 PM
Oct 2019

Yes! We are battling an insurgency of extremists who are hell-bent on destroying democracy.

iluvtennis

(19,876 posts)
8. trumpty dumpty thinks that the mere holding of the office of the presidency garners him respect -
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 01:40 PM
Oct 2019

he's wrong. RESPECT is earned. To get respect, you have to give respect. trump doesn't respect American institutions and norms, so he get no respect from me.

iluvtennis

(19,876 posts)
16. +++ agree. It's the same old shit of trying to "normalize" trump. haven't they learned anything
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 02:09 PM
Oct 2019

in the last 2 1/2 years.

MurrayDelph

(5,301 posts)
9. (Rhetorical question):
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 01:50 PM
Oct 2019

Why is it only during Republican administrations that we are told we have to show respect for the Office of the President
(even if we hate the ass sitting in the chair)?

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
31. Correct, and they seem to forget they did not respect Obama when he was President
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 02:56 PM
Oct 2019

Anyone who believes anything that comes out of a republican's mouth lacks independent thinking. It almost seems as if to become a republican you have to be a natural liar and a hypocrite.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
10. Seems to me Pierce's main point is not just trump,
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 01:52 PM
Oct 2019

but that the office of the president, given what many of its holders have perpetrated over the decades, does not deserve respect..just because it is the office of the president..
---And that in that case, and given what is happening and has happened throughout the world, what happened at the BB game is peanut shells on the floor..

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
36. I think he means that respect is to the person, not to an office
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 03:00 PM
Oct 2019

And like someone here said, respect is earned, whether you agree with that person or not, and it is obvious that the creature in the WH has not earned the respect of anyone. I don't even think republicans have respect for the creature, they seem to fear him, but that is not respect.

 

blakstoneranger

(333 posts)
14. This is the Crap that Pisses Me Off!!!
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 01:59 PM
Oct 2019

It never fails, everytime trump gets whats coming to him, everybody wants to treat him like a baby whose being picked on. Always forgetting all the sh.....ttttt..tttt!! he's done to other people!!! How many times has he encouraged "lock her up!!" at almost every rally, meeting, or convention. Now we're supposed to show respect, PLEASE!!! DONT FORGET MR COONS, THE OFFICE OF SECRETARY OF STATE IS JUST AS DESERVING OF RESPECT AS THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY, WHERE WHERE YOU THEN? Mr Coons, where are you on impeaching this traitor? Will your feelings for trump change come vote time? It's times like these you find out who the republicans are in the democratic party.

marlakay

(11,498 posts)
17. I got so mad at Abbey on The View today
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 02:09 PM
Oct 2019

Going on and on about how we should be praising him for the Isis guy killed like we are supposed to forget the million other deplorable things he has done!

From possibly raping a girl to allowing drilling in places where it will affect people’s water he has shown zero concern for the people and probably only tried hard to get this guy not because he’s bad but because he wanted his moment in the sun.

He deserved every second of the booing and the lock him up every single second!

Politicub

(12,165 posts)
18. What is the point of the freedom of speech and freedom of assembly if not to protest?
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 02:21 PM
Oct 2019

We're in the midst of a constitutional crisis, and there's no room for letting the president off the hook. Not for one moment.

I resent the shaming of the spectators by chattering media personalities and politicians like Chris Coons. They must be of such high privilege that they will be protected even if the destruction of institutions continues.

Charles Pierce has it right, as he always does:

So, no, I don't Respect The Office any more (or less) than I respect the Congress or the federal judiciary or the Department of Agriculture, for all that. Right now, all over the world, from Lebanon to Chile, hundreds of thousands of people are in the streets demanding a voice in their governments. Capital cities are being shut down. And we're all supposed to be alarmed that a renegade president* got heckled at a baseball game? For a country founded through acts of unruly dissent, that's as mild as milk.

Wounded Bear

(58,721 posts)
19. I respect the office, just not the current occupant...
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 02:27 PM
Oct 2019

I am certainly not going to advocate that people treat Trump better than Repubs treated Pres Obama.

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
21. "respect the office" is a cheap dodge
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 02:31 PM
Oct 2019

and more important, a way to stifle free speech. They know they can't arrest us for booing or otherwise criticizing the president, so they try out the old "respect the office" canard. An office doesn't care about respect. An office is an idea, a label, a title. It certainly isn't a human being, who does care. As Trump certainly does; he looked briefly like he was almost in tears at the game last night (good!).

Of course, that goes for any elected official, but this crap is bandied about mainly about the presidency.

MFGsunny

(2,356 posts)
37. Eggsactly!
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 03:03 PM
Oct 2019

The chants were about "Lock HIM up."

It was disgust being expressed at the individual. FULL STOP.

Let freedom ring!

LiberalLovinLug

(14,176 posts)
27. Ted Bundy was a suicide hotline worker at one time.
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 02:46 PM
Oct 2019

Don't say anything bad about Ted Bundy or your are disrespecting the work of all the other suicide hotline workers!!

His only other notable job was working for the Republican party.....surprise surprise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy

Katinfl

(158 posts)
28. Where was the "respect the office" outrage when he started the birther BS ?
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 02:47 PM
Oct 2019

I agree with Pierce 100%. Trump never gave Pres. Obama the respect he certainly deserved so spare me the outrage now. Get over it!

MadLinguist

(790 posts)
39. "The Presidency doesn't commit crimes, only presidents do" in response to gun-humper sophistry
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 03:33 PM
Oct 2019

as to the who and the what of gun deaths is brilliant.

dalton99a

(81,599 posts)
42. Donald Trump disrespects his office 24/7 and actively betrays his country every which way he can.
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 04:56 PM
Oct 2019

I have more respect for manure.








RVN VET71

(2,698 posts)
44. When Ike made HST cool his heels in the WH on Ike's inauguration day
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 05:05 PM
Oct 2019

by refusing to enter the building until HST had left, Harry rightly condemned Ike for disrespecting the office of the president. But, then, Harry Truman wasn't put in office by Stalin or any other foreign dictator, so the office of the president did deserve respect and the deliberate insult Ike flung at him was undeserved, inappropriate, and beneath the dignity of a 5 Star General and newly installed president.

Booing Trump is just that: booing Trump. You don't like it? Tough.

Aussie105

(5,437 posts)
45. Respecting the office is fine, by me.
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 08:00 PM
Oct 2019

But I'm also fine with disrespecting (and hating) the current office holder.
The two aren't the same thing.

Holding a title doesn't mean instant respect and co-operation is bestowed on the person. Maybe initially, but once you find out that person is an inappropriate placement, both fade quickly.

The next President of the US had better prove he is an intelligent, trustworthy person, with the interests of the people at heart.
Only that will restore the trust and co-operation of the people.

Trump's biggest mistake was to think the title was a magic cloak that hid all his shortcomings and gave him the power to do what he liked. Not so, neither are true.

Corgigal

(9,291 posts)
49. Didn't the man who lives in our White House call it
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 09:22 PM
Oct 2019

a shit hole? Oh, I’m sure his handlers scrubbed it but it still was circulated in the press a while back.

I’m suppose to respect him? No, he respects us first.

Orrex

(63,225 posts)
51. I swore no oath to honor the office of the presidency nor the president
Mon Oct 28, 2019, 09:29 PM
Oct 2019

And I sure as shit am under no obligation to respect it more than that corrupt orange idiot racist fuckhead does.

tulipsandroses

(5,127 posts)
54. Thank you Mr. Pierce
Tue Oct 29, 2019, 03:25 AM
Oct 2019

This handwringing, pearl clutching going on today because Trump got what he justly deserved is ridiculous!
Respect the office the presidency? You have to be joking. This president does not respect the office, the citizens of this country, our laws, constitution, norms. Please do not demand respect from us the citizenry that feel like we are in a fight for survival -

Aussie105

(5,437 posts)
56. In a different country,
Tue Oct 29, 2019, 06:15 AM
Oct 2019

the boos would have been accompanied by the throwing of much rotten fruit and vegetables. And the odd shoe.

Were the baseball fans not prewarned about the Orange Pustule's presence at the game, or are they the type of Americans who just don't eat vegetables or fruit?

mcar

(42,376 posts)
57. He was in a secure box
Tue Oct 29, 2019, 08:23 AM
Oct 2019

The fruit would have pelted the windows and landed on real fans.

Good point, though!

Fla Dem

(23,765 posts)
58. I respect the Office of the Presidency, it's the asshole in that office I have zero respect for.
Tue Oct 29, 2019, 11:40 AM
Oct 2019

So I shouldn't say anything derogatory about a priest, minister or teacher even though they sexully assualted children? Yes those are highly respected positions which deserve respect, but the people who fill those respectable positions have to earn my respect. You don't automatically earn the cloak of respectability just because you warm a seat.

AllaN01Bear

(18,443 posts)
59. i no longer call him the pRez. i call him that THING currently in the white house .
Tue Oct 29, 2019, 11:59 AM
Oct 2019

i second what fla dem says as well. you earn respect, not demand it and it goes both ways .

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