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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA Bill Kristol tweet that you might find encouraging, after yesterday's House vote.
@BillKristol
Having called around some, reassured in my judgment that those House Republicans open to voting for impeachment simply decided to stick with the party yesterday, and to save their dissent for the real vote. No point telegraphing the jail break to the prison guards ahead of time.
9:24 AM · Nov 1, 2019·Twitter Web App
Link to tweet
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)if even half the retiring Republicans and a few others voted to impeach, it would be HUGE
lastlib
(23,238 posts)I wouldn't bet my gold watch on anything Kristol says, but that's me. In fact, I wouldn't wipe my ass with his opinion
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and in literally the same sentence dismissing all our Democratic candidates as no better than Trump. Two-faced as SOP, protect with one, oppose with the other.
bluecollar2
(3,622 posts)marlakay
(11,469 posts)Will be planning to get jobs working for republicans or their causes so will stay on that side. I dont think we can count on them to change.
cab67
(2,993 posts)hlthe2b
(102,283 posts)that is the tactic I would undertake. Why announce ahead of time that you might be a problem for Trump.
I hope he is right on this. I put little faith in it, but, we shall see..
Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)...I know who he is, I know what he's said and done.
When this is all over, Kristol, Rick Wilson and the rest will be eyeballing the exits, trying to figure out how to "get back to" something that has been obliterated by Trump.
I take it all with a grain of salt, but "if" he's on target with this, it makes perfect sense.
"If" Republicans have to live through the facts being displayed on TV, "if" it's the airtight case Pelosi and Schiff have been working on, they are gonna wear that stink forever if they decide to go down with the good ship Donald Trump.
I imagine McCarthy, Jordan, Nunes, Gaetz and their ilk will go down, no matter else.
Every other Republican? Not so much.
hlthe2b
(102,283 posts)erronis
(15,286 posts)even divorce the (R)epuglicon party 3 times. They've earned that malodor for their lifetimes.
Well, perhaps an indulgence. "If" one or more wants to play the role of Brutus.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,491 posts)All these Rethug politicians move on to cushy right-wing connected jobs in media, on corporate boards or R-W think tanks and probably earn more post civil-service. Plus, they get to keep the retirement perks for life at our expense not matter how evil they are.
They exist in a bubble that contains unlimited wealth and high-level connections.......
Texin
(2,596 posts)Johnny2X2X
(19,066 posts)Dems have the votes needed to vote to impeach and send it to the Senate for a trial.
Republican defections in the Senate is the only question left.
Scoopster
(423 posts)Republican defections in the House, especially on the vote to pass articles of impeachment, would send a signal to Senate Repubs.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,653 posts)genxlib
(5,528 posts)Some Republican defectors would undermine the argument that this is a partisan witch hunt.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)hlthe2b
(102,283 posts)voters to pay closer attention and might well open the flood gates for otherwise skeptical Senators to consider voting to remove.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)much harder to threaten to unseat than congressmen, even if more than just a few were up for reelection this time. Of those, only maybe 3 are at serious risk.
Most of those cracks in the electorate are going to show up in house districts where supporting Trump threatens reelection. And unlike the senate, every Republican congressional seat is on the ballot in 2020.
asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)considering what he did to the Clinton Health care plan in the nineties..imagine how far along we would be with regards to healthcare had the plan at least got started....and don't forget he waved his pom poms for invasion of Iraq.....as Bush and Cheney lied to the American people....
erronis
(15,286 posts)as he used to.
Part of the problem is that the M$M gets caught into contracts/relationships with these commentards. They get aired/printed over and over even if they babble gibberish and switch positions faster than Melania used to.
lonely bird
(1,685 posts)Now I need a spork to scoop out my minds eye after visualizing Melania with Tangelo-Tinted Taint Tumor. (Thanks to TheFerret)
McKim
(2,412 posts)Yesm never forget that he promoted the War on Iraq where, according to The Lancet, about a million Iraqis died! He did this all comfortable from his think tank office while our soldiers and massive amounts of civilians died. He does not deserve our respect.
irisblue
(32,975 posts)Wednesdays
(17,380 posts)But the people he's interviewed, not so much.
NNadir
(33,523 posts)It's very clear that your right wing pals have no integrity, are in a Neo-Stalinist "cult of personality" and would in fact find nothing wrong with their modern day Stalin if in fact he openly murdered someone on 5th avenue.
The ease with which they abandoned the rule of law and the US Constitution gives lie to all the patriotic bull and law and order bull you've all handed out for decades.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)they talk a big game, but roll over like nothing EVERY single time with him.
For all their bravado, they are some seriously sniveling toadies.
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)The game is afoot, though. It seems certain to me that Trump will be impeached. I just hope things look bad enough for him that enough R Senators decide it's time for him to go. That could happen if more crap becomes public.
dware
(12,385 posts)This would send a powerful message to the R's in the senate as well as the general public.
KG
(28,751 posts)crickets
(25,980 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,340 posts)If we can get even a tiny handful, it would be a very BFD, indeed.
dware
(12,385 posts)Think of the chaos it would cause in the Rparty, and how badly it would piss Trump off.
awesomerwb1
(4,268 posts)but I don't believe him.
nycbos
(6,034 posts)Link to tweet
?lang=en
yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)There are a lot of hovering shoes out there.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...how many in the Senate will vote to convict? 20? Not based on the Ukraine matter alone.
Leith
(7,809 posts)We have no reason to believe that senators have been telling Kristol any of this and we have no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. He was worse than a jerk to us and those we respect for decades. It will take more than one cheery tweet to change my opinion of him.
Don't forget that he gave us Sarah Palin.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)They will roll over on the next vote the same as they have rolled over 100 times already ready with this guy.
Most are straight up on board with him, and what few are not, are won't jeoparidize their career by breaking with the run away fascism train they are part of.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...if a handful of Republican Representives vote to impeach.
Firestorm49
(4,035 posts)Grammy23
(5,810 posts)Since it never got to a real vote with Nixon, we dont know exactly how that would have played out but the behind the scenes people knew that Nixon was done. And he resigned. Unfortunately with tRump, even if he is warned he will lose in the Senate, resignation is not a good option for him either. SDNY is waiting to get their hands on him when he is out. He is hoping Pence can save him with a pardon. Timing is everything.
So this drama has many possible endings but none are really good for tRump. Just bad and less bad. (Remember, even if he isnt convicted, there is all that bad information out in the public that he will need to deal with...before the next election.) Lets hope Kristol has some insight on how some of those senators really feel about tRump. Maybe they are as eager as any of us to see him taken down?? Hope is all weve got at this point.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)but will never follow through when it counts.
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)This does hold off a primary challenge for now but the final vote will happen before the window is closed for primary challenger. Depending on the district, you can bet that the democratic challenger will hammer on this vote rather than the later vote in the general election. They would be better off risking a primary challenge than the alternative so I just don't buy this reasoning by Kristol.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,348 posts)The ones he called lie and he may be lying, too.
spanone
(135,838 posts)hibbing
(10,098 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)frogmarch
(12,153 posts)GoCubsGo
(32,084 posts)But, considering the source...
Joe941
(2,848 posts)wiggs
(7,814 posts)extra pressure on senate, for election discussions, for message to the WH, for framing the articles as outside partisan politics, etc.
Imperialism Inc.
(2,495 posts)FakeNoose
(32,639 posts)At least some of these GOP-ers know the score and plan to dump-Chump when the time comes. No names yet, but I believe Bill Kristol is correct in being optimistic on this. I have believed the same for quite a while.
Not all the GOP incumbents have a secret death wish, so to speak. They can see what's happening to their Party and they mostly blame Chump for it.
calimary
(81,295 posts)Over YEARS of your damn editorials and your smug wrong-wing propaganda and your damn superior Im-smarter-than-you attitude.
YOU were one of the main architects of the shit that even you now have to wade through while presuming you wont get any on you, thinking you can tsk-tsk at it now and SOUND like youre one of the good guys (or maybe like youre one of the redeemed wholl be forgiven and whose complicity will be forgotten. You probably think thatll allow you to get away with helping to start and then nurture it without having to pay for it.
Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)I didn't "follow" these guys...all I know is that I remember seeing / hearing Kristol with regularity during the Bush years, and the first time I remember hearing about Wilson was when he became an anti-Trump voice. So as far as culpability goes or who built what, they're not my heroes.
But in 2019, I'll take what I can get.
Kristol didn't burn his bridges, he didn't scream and howl like Corky St. Claire in "Waiting For Guffman" and tell the Republicans that they're bastard people, and the hates their bastard faces.
As I said above, he's a Republican, and if...against all odds...there's anything left but the stink of Trump, when Trump leaves, he's going to attempt to return to "normal." It won't be there, but he'll poke among the ashes.
What matters is that there's no one more qualified to tell you what's going on with Republicans than a Republican.
It doesn't mean we have to BE Republicans, LIKE Republicans, RESPECT Republicans, or wipe the slate clean for Kristol's past...or Wilson's.
They're the same people they were before Trump hauled his fat ass down that golden escalator.
They also probably feel they have more at stake than we do.
We look at the destruction and implosion of the Republican party via Trump and think "Hand me the weenies and marshmallows!"
They feel like they lost something.
We thought that Bush and Cheney were the last straw.
Trump rocketed right past the worst the two of them had to offer. And while "revisionist history" has tried to paint GWB in hindsight, we know that's crap...he WAS that bad. But eight years of Obama got us back on the right track.
Then came Trump.
We won't have eight years of a Democratic president and then a Republican president who's worse than Trump.
I agree with what Steve Schmidt said on Nicolle Wallace's show yesterday...if Trump is impeached by the House and then given a pass in the Senate, then gets re-elected, God help us all.
But if he is removed by the Senate...STILL a long shot...OR is voted out of office...it's going to be a LONG fucking road back for the Republicans, one I might not see in my lifetime.
I don't like or trust Kristol either, but on this specific issue...and other Republican-related issues to come as impeachment advances...just like Rick Wilson, he might be worth listening to, at least as a window into the ongoing acts of self-sabotage among Republicans.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,660 posts)aggiesal
(8,915 posts)and he'll say or do whatever it takes to do that.
Skittles
(153,164 posts)NEVER trust repukes
Grasswire2
(13,570 posts)...I know that Kristol is only treading water while Trump flames out and he fully intends to resume hard conservative attack on America.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Always has been.
dlk
(11,566 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)caraher
(6,278 posts)Polybius
(15,421 posts)He hates him because he hasn't started as many wars as Kristol wants, like Bush did.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...no GOP Reps vote to impeach (or if only a few who are retiring do), then it's probably safe to say we aren't going to get anywhere close to 20 GOP Senators voting to convict.
Anyway, Never Trump Republicans are in denial about their own complicity in making Trump possible, and they're in denial about how ethically bankrupt their party is. Kristol is still an asshole.
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)I see absolutely no evidence any Republicans will turn on Trump.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)who has been beaten to a pulp. Looks like he's still trying to take some swings. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.