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pampango

(24,692 posts)
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 09:24 AM Sep 2012

WaPo Plumline: It was, by any reasonable standards, a staggering, staggering lie.

It was, by any reasonable standards, a staggering, staggering lie. Here’s Paul Ryan about Barack Obama:

He created a bipartisan debt commission. They came back with an urgent report. He thanked them, sent them on their way, and then did exactly nothing.

“They.” “Them.” “Them.” Those words are lies. Because Paul Ryan was on that commission. “Came back with an urgent report.” That is a lie. The commission never made any recommendations for Barack Obama to support or oppose. Why not? Because the commission voted down its own recommendations. Why? Because Paul Ryan, a member of the commission, voted it down and successfully convinced the other House Republicans on the commission to vote it down.

The real truth is that Paul Ryan completely rejects the approach of that commission – because it includes tax increases along with spending cuts
– while Barack Obama has, while not endorsing the exact plan that Ryan shot down, basically endorsed the commission’s approach. Nor was this a side point; Ryan's complaint about Obama on the deficit was absolutely central to his case against the president.

And then there’s the logic of the whole thing. As Seth Masket said, it all comes down to arguing “we must cut entitlements! Obama cutting entitlements is un-American.” There’s also, as many were pointing out, the plain fact that until January 2009 Paul Ryan faithfully supported all the tax cuts and spending increases which created the deficit problem he’s been so concerned about since January 2009.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/paul-ryan-fails----the-truth/2012/08/29/bbfe1eac-f254-11e1-b74c-84ed55e0300b_blog.html

Glad to see the Post point out the utter "incredibly lazy mendacity" in Ryan's speech.

I hope the author is right that Ryan's "undeserved good reputation among many in the press and in Washington" doesn't "survive tonight’s speech."
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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WaPo Plumline: It was, by any reasonable standards, a staggering, staggering lie. (Original Post) pampango Sep 2012 OP
du rec. Nt xchrom Sep 2012 #1
It's about damn time and EVERY media outlet needs to call out Lyin' Ryan BumRushDaShow Sep 2012 #2
Republicans don't let lies get in the way of their objectives. Baitball Blogger Sep 2012 #3
K&R, with one caveat. appal_jack Sep 2012 #4
Damned Kenyan! Plucketeer Sep 2012 #6
I knew Paul Ryan's & Alan Simpson's politics in 2009 appal_jack Sep 2012 #8
It's a rare day Plucketeer Sep 2012 #21
Please don't reconsider the smilie. A Simple Game Sep 2012 #22
I got the sarcasm the 1st time appal_jack Sep 2012 #26
If I can't critisize the president Plucketeer Sep 2012 #31
Word. appal_jack Sep 2012 #32
Thanks Plucketeer Sep 2012 #33
As I remember it each party picked their own participants on the Debt Commission. xtraxritical Sep 2012 #24
Obama appointed 5 of the 18, including both Simpson & Bowles appal_jack Sep 2012 #30
Exactly. Obama Third Way crew did everything they could to maneuver Marr Sep 2012 #20
Obama DIDN'T appoint the members of the Debt Commission. TahitiNut Sep 2012 #28
He appointed 5 of the 18, including both Simpson & Bowles appal_jack Sep 2012 #29
Right on WaPo. It was a lie on top of a lie about a lie. nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2012 #5
WHAT? Ryan LIED? madrchsod Sep 2012 #7
K&R nt avebury Sep 2012 #9
Wash, rinse, repeat Grammy23 Sep 2012 #10
posts on blogs can be dismissed as partisam opinion central scrutinizer Sep 2012 #11
“If you vote against Obama because he can’t get stuff done, it’s kind of like saying ‘This guy can’t KurtNYC Sep 2012 #12
Wow - someone needs to stop the Republican campaign of lies Berlum Sep 2012 #13
And the lie begets xxqqqzme Sep 2012 #14
Of course.... has FOX news mentioned this at all? nightscanner59 Sep 2012 #15
One FOX news writer--some woman named Susan something-- tblue37 Sep 2012 #16
So most of the offline Faux consumers have eaten Ryan's Lyin hook, line and sinker... nightscanner59 Sep 2012 #34
staggering....honest description spanone Sep 2012 #17
The Plum Line bloggers need ProSense Sep 2012 #18
K&R Tarheel_Dem Sep 2012 #19
From obstructionist to blamer-in-chief upi402 Sep 2012 #23
Republicans don't CARE about facts. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #25
One of the most oft-repeated LIES infesting the MSM is simply the phrase "commission report" .. TahitiNut Sep 2012 #27

BumRushDaShow

(129,228 posts)
2. It's about damn time and EVERY media outlet needs to call out Lyin' Ryan
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 09:28 AM
Sep 2012

for his bullshit. Every. Single. Word.

K&R

Baitball Blogger

(46,750 posts)
3. Republicans don't let lies get in the way of their objectives.
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 09:30 AM
Sep 2012

In fact, it's the ONLY way they can reach them.

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
4. K&R, with one caveat.
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 10:16 AM
Sep 2012

No doubt about it, Ryan is a heinous liar, but honestly, wtf did Obama expect to happen with that Commission? On the 'shred-the-safety-net side,' he appointed rabid ideologues like Paul Ryan & Alan Simpson.

Meanwhile on the 'save-the-safety-net side'... Oh wait, that side was barely represented, if at all on that Commission.

Meanwhile on the 'Democratic' side, Obama appoints weaselly-little corporatists like Erskine Bowles. Erskine-goddamn-Bowles stands for no one except Morgan Stanley and Erskine Bowles (and he does the latter badly, as he has been unable to get elected to any office lately; plus his tenure at the helm of the UNC system was utterly without distinction).

The 'Debt Commission' should have contained at least a plurality of pro-Social Security, pro-Safety Net, pro-progressive taxation voices among the Democrats (I know it would be too much to ask to find even one Republican to fit that description). Instead, the 'Debt Commission' was stacked against us from the start. It was bad policy from the outset, so it should be no surprise that the result is some bad politics.

-app

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
6. Damned Kenyan!
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 10:50 AM
Sep 2012

Just like some Kenyan future intuitive witch doctor manipulated Hawiian newspaper birth announcements in '61, someone - something - prompted our president to "set up" Ryan 3&1/2 years hence. Knowing Ryan would be tapped, knowing his propensity to distort the truth, knowing Ryan would be free to twiddle those truths thanks to having a liar for a running mate - the assembling of this stillborn commission looks like "gotcha!" trap that the Dems set in 2009. Damned crafty, those Dems! Damned crafty.

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
8. I knew Paul Ryan's & Alan Simpson's politics in 2009
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 11:04 AM
Sep 2012
On (2nd) Edit: I initially interpreted Plucketeer's humor above as an attempt to derail the discussion and drag it down to a sarcastic caricature of the birther nonsense. But sometimes a joke is just an attempt at humor, even here at DU.

Now, on to the point of the Debt Commission itself:

I knew Paul Ryan's & Alan Simpson's politics in 2009, and I'm just a dude who reads the news. Are you saying that Obama, the President of the US and leader of the Democratic Party, did not?

People who oppose all taxes have no business being placed on a 'Debt Commission,' especially one appointed by a Democratic administration. All I am saying is that Obama could have handled the matter better in 2009 had he kept the slash-&-burn Teahadist wing of faux fiscal conservatism far from any such commission. Their craven greed and twisted lies on behalf of the 1% deserved no such mantle of legitimacy. I question even appointing a 'Debt Commission' at all during 2009, but if one was really necessary for whatever reason, the Democratic side should have had only pro-Social Security, pro-progressive-taxation, pro-worker, FDR/New Deal advocates. This 'Turd Way' nonsense is worse than Reaganism: a stinking corporatist effluvium polluting our own Party.

-app
 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
21. It's a rare day
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 07:34 PM
Sep 2012

when I bother with the sarcasm smilie. I generally trust that most DUers are smart enough to where I don't have to put up a sign. I guess I need to reconsider.

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
26. I got the sarcasm the 1st time
Wed Sep 5, 2012, 08:05 AM
Sep 2012

I got the sarcasm the 1st time, but could not tell its purpose. There are people here at DU right now saying that all criticism of the President sould be verboten until after the election, a viewpoint which I think is counterproductive nonsense. Right now is exactly the time to pressure the Obama administration to commit to really protecting Social Security and the rest of the safety net, to reveal what's being negotiated under the auspices of the Trans Pacific Parnership, etc. Promises not even made now can hardly be expected to be honored after the inauguration.

So forgive me if I jumped down your throat, but I really do think that discussing the issue of the nature of the Simpson-Bowles Commission is more important than joking about birtherist fantasies.

-app

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
31. If I can't critisize the president
Wed Sep 5, 2012, 11:21 AM
Sep 2012

then this IS NOT a place that welcomes democracy.

I like the points you've made. We DO need to keep reminding ourselves and our politicians that we ARE WATCHING. Further, this day and age affords us more and more transparancy than we were used to getting (or not getting, truth be told). That recent video clip of Slick Willy talking candidly with Ryan - about things regarding Medicare - THAT scared the hell outta me!
And as you say - that TPP sleight of hand - when do WE, the people, get to weigh in on that??? I'll bet Obama knows EVERY facet of it. Why not share ..... BEFORE there's a handshake? As it stands, this is not OUR government. What we do is akin to throwing fresh, clean T-shirts into a vat of deep green dye and expecting them to stay white, er gray or whatever color they were when we threw them in!

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
32. Word.
Wed Sep 5, 2012, 11:45 AM
Sep 2012

Plucketeer, it sounds like we are on the same page. I am certainly in favor of democracy (everywhere) and a reasoned, progressive, and democratic discussion format here at DU. Humor is generally good too.

I will edit my initial reaction, above. People curious about it can click back through, but the fact is that I missed the target of your humorous barbs during the first round of this discussion.



-app

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
33. Thanks
Wed Sep 5, 2012, 12:02 PM
Sep 2012

Truth is, it was the fact that we were/are on the same page that inspired my first reply. We're definitely playin' the same tune!

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
30. Obama appointed 5 of the 18, including both Simpson & Bowles
Wed Sep 5, 2012, 10:19 AM
Sep 2012

See my response #29, just below for more details.

-app

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
20. Exactly. Obama Third Way crew did everything they could to maneuver
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 06:22 PM
Sep 2012

cuts to Social Security/Medicare into a winning position, but the insane Republican Party proved unwilling or too stupid to take "yes" for an answer. The ball was spiked for them, and they stamped their feet and threw another tantrum instead of knocking it in for a goal.

There was no one to cheer for in that whole debacle.

TahitiNut

(71,611 posts)
28. Obama DIDN'T appoint the members of the Debt Commission.
Wed Sep 5, 2012, 09:20 AM
Sep 2012

They were appointed by their respective caucuses!

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
29. He appointed 5 of the 18, including both Simpson & Bowles
Wed Sep 5, 2012, 10:09 AM
Sep 2012

Last edited Wed Sep 5, 2012, 11:37 AM - Edit history (1)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Fiscal_Responsibility_and_Reform

According to the above link, President Obama appointed Alan Simpson (co-chair; fmr. U.S. Senator), Dave M. Cote (Honeywell International), Erskine Bowles (co-chair; fmr. White House Chief of Staff), Andy Stern (fmr. president of Service Employees International Union), Alice Rivlin (Brookings Institution; fmr. director CBO and OMB and Fed vice chair), Ann M. Fudge (fmr. CEO Young & Rubicam Brands), and Bruce Reed (fmr. Chief Domestic Policy Adviser to President Clinton), executive director of Commission.

Both Simpson & Bowles are absolutely inexcusable, unless you enjoy watching demented pitbulls (Simpson) tear apart emotionally stunted chihuahuas (Bowles), who never wanted to fight to begin with. But that seems lousy, even by Michael Vick standards, especially when it's our retirement income that is on the line. Out of the rest, Andy Stern is the only one who reputedly stood against the overarching theme of balancing the budget on the backs of the poor and middle class, reneging on the Social Security bonds, and otherwise further hollowing-out America in the name of a few more years of coddling the 1%.

Additionally,responsibility for the very existence of the Commission lies with Obama (underline emphasis added):

The original proposal for a commission came from bipartisan legislation that would have required Congress to vote on its recommendations as presented, without any amendment. In January 2010, that bill failed in the Senate by a vote of 53–46, when six Republicans who had co-sponsored it nevertheless voted against it.


Why did our Democratic President expend precious 1st-year political capital on the false-flag issue of debt reduction at the very time when stimulus and economic recovery were what was needed?

-app

madrchsod

(58,162 posts)
7. WHAT? Ryan LIED?
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 11:04 AM
Sep 2012

REALLY! he LIED?

hey.. washington post.....tell us something we don`t know about ryan.

Grammy23

(5,810 posts)
10. Wash, rinse, repeat
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 11:37 AM
Sep 2012

This message about what a liar Ryan is needs to be repeated until there is not a soul in this country (Ok, the world would be fine with me) who has not heard this. And more importantly, don't just make the charge. BACK IT UP with FACTS and FIGURES. Show the videos of him so he hangs himself with his own rhetoric. Show the contrast between what he says and what he actually DOES.

This man is a liar who clearly believes that the ends justify the means. And ya know what, Romney thinks that way, too. So what we have is a couple liars who will say anything, do anything to get what they want. No holds barred. And if a lie advances their position, they will say it.

The voters have a right to know the straight skinny on who their choices are. And two of them ---Romney and Ryan---are liars who would not know the truth if it bit them on the ass.

central scrutinizer

(11,653 posts)
11. posts on blogs can be dismissed as partisam opinion
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 11:39 AM
Sep 2012

When this shows up on the WaPo front page, then we will have something.

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
12. “If you vote against Obama because he can’t get stuff done, it’s kind of like saying ‘This guy can’t
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 12:01 PM
Sep 2012

‘This guy can’t cure cancer. I’m gonna vote for cancer.’” -Chris Rock


Nice that someone can still call a lie "a staggering, staggering lie."

Berlum

(7,044 posts)
13. Wow - someone needs to stop the Republican campaign of lies
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 12:18 PM
Sep 2012

You really cannot trust one damn thing they 'claim'

xxqqqzme

(14,887 posts)
14. And the lie begets
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 12:21 PM
Sep 2012

more lies. Ron Christie, on Bill Maher, was arguing w/ Maher about lyin' ryan's negative vote.

nightscanner59

(802 posts)
15. Of course.... has FOX news mentioned this at all?
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 12:27 PM
Sep 2012

Seems the only way to reach the Romney/Ryan voters is if Fox reports (for a change) and they decide...

tblue37

(65,457 posts)
16. One FOX news writer--some woman named Susan something--
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 05:54 PM
Sep 2012

actually did point out the lies in Ryan's convention speech. But it was in an online article--and I doubt most FOX viewers are big readers. And even if they started to read her article, they probably stopped the instant they realized it was about how Ryan was lying.

nightscanner59

(802 posts)
34. So most of the offline Faux consumers have eaten Ryan's Lyin hook, line and sinker...
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 11:20 PM
Sep 2012

My parents are the only Faux broadcast faithful I know. They will not listen to anyone else. At all. They are in their 90's and still vote. Their three sons can only counter their folly by one.

TahitiNut

(71,611 posts)
27. One of the most oft-repeated LIES infesting the MSM is simply the phrase "commission report" ..
Wed Sep 5, 2012, 09:14 AM
Sep 2012

... or "Simpson-Bowles commission report" ... which does not exist! The Debt Commission, as stated in the article, failed to agree on ANY report whatsoever! It enrages me every time this outright LIE is perpetuated by a corrupt media. No matter what the merits or shortfalls of the draft report produced by the two principals, it was not and is not a "commission report."

If anything, the Debt Commission's failure is just another tombstone marking the steady parade of hyper-partisan and treasonous obstruction by the GOP.

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