General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's quite likely that the Senate will not remove Trump.
However, the process of Impeachment in the House and trial in the Senate will still serve to publicize Trump's behavior, with massive public exposure of that behavior to the voters.
That is its true value. If that exposure leads to Trump failing in his re-election attempt, then it will have the same result as if he were removed from office by the Senate. Either way, he will no longer be President.
It is very likely that the Republicans in the Senate will hang together in voting against removal. But, they will have to do that publicly. They will have to add their names to the list of those who refuse to see justice done. That may well be enough to swing the Senate to a Democratic majority, which is a powerful goal. The Republicans will hang together, in more than one sense of that word.
If, following the 2020 General Election we have a Democratic President and Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress, we will have turned Donald Trump and the Republicans out of office and out of control. That is a goal we should all strive to achieve.
Impeachment in the House and the trial in the Senate will expose Donald J. Trump and his behavior to public scrutiny, and in a way that cannot be achieved in any other way.
Our goal should be to help the public view and understand what is happening, throughout that process.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)wishes above our national security. His actions repeatedly show that. And meanwhile, his Roy Cohn is running around Europe trying to get dirt on our national security agencies.
I think Donnie Duetch was right in saying that we need to make this a meme about "trump is messing with national security. "
pwb
(11,287 posts)Hopefully.
LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,590 posts)Second: Close the children's concentration camps on the border and get the kids and their parents together, no matter what it takes.
Third: Throw a big-ass nationwide party.
aeromanKC
(3,326 posts)MineralMan
(146,325 posts)lastlib
(23,271 posts)Then, I hope, they will hang separately.
In my wildest dreams, tRumpers will be hunted with dogs--open season, with no bag limit.
getagrip_already
(14,825 posts)They have plenty of chips they can hand out to people like collins and other endangered senators - and still have a healthy buffer to acquit.
Moscow mitch is all about retaining power. He doesn't care how bad trump ends up looking as long as he gets to replace one of the 4 remaining dems on scotus, and keep control of the senate.
He can let some senators vote to convict and still win. He can lose some senators in 2020 and still win.
That is his goal. It is attainable. Or not. But the votes, and time, are on his side.
AllyCat
(16,216 posts)That is a terrible thing to say.
erronis
(15,328 posts)<wry>
Agree that the phrasing was not very appropriate.
Would lifetime imprisonment with no access to phones be better?
EarnestPutz
(2,120 posts)Their support of Trump needs to become millstones hanging around every neck that has defended the Donald. Their complaints about the process coupled with the coming ingenuous defense of his actions need to be made plain to the American voting public.
Mr.Bill
(24,317 posts)the ones not up for election this cycle will be. If the stain is deep enough, we may very well gain a 2/3 majority in the Senate. That's when we start impeaching some of the clowns Trump appointed to pose as judges.
I like the way you think!!
Scotch-Irish
(464 posts)that could happen to the USA. And we need to start with the supreme court.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)But I can't say what it is.
Buckeyeblue
(5,500 posts)getagrip_already
(14,825 posts)Heart, stroke, overdose, slip and fall (there is a plague of s&f among russian agents once they get outed).......
I'm partial to a slow, agonizing end,in jail, but any end will work.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)He is not a healthy man. I don't know how he manages to keep going with all his stress and rage.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)You are probably correct.
But nobody knows what might be discovered next?
edhopper
(33,606 posts)that will make most of the Republicans turn on him.
He still needs to be impeached.
Dagstead Bumwood
(3,650 posts)For example, if there were solid proof he did something to a child, I believe that would do it. They would have no choice at that point. But just about any other crime? Yeah, they're with him for the long haul.
edhopper
(33,606 posts)Dagstead Bumwood
(3,650 posts)Like in the Rose Garden. Sorry I didn't specify that.
edhopper
(33,606 posts)they would even turn on him if he beat a child in the Rose garden. I mean children dying in cages don't bother them in the least.
Dagstead Bumwood
(3,650 posts)So it's hard to fathom where the lines of (what remains of) their actual morality and their instinct to defend tRump intersect. I just know we don't seem even close to that point, sadly. The 1974 version of Republicans would have likely run screaming from tRump 18 months ago.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)dustyscamp
(2,224 posts)Joe941
(2,848 posts)MineralMan
(146,325 posts)to agree with us? Any ideas? I have to work with the situation at hand.
Arkansas Granny
(31,525 posts)and protect the Constitution, not the President. Their loyalty is to the party, not the country.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)Progressive Jones
(6,011 posts)Let everyone in their State know that they have aided and abetted a traitor.
Make them out to be no better than a pedophile or murderer.
Political careers and reputations must be destroyed.
empedocles
(15,751 posts). . . now, or in the near future. However, . . .
lame54
(35,315 posts)The goal is to make their votes as shameful as possible
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)they had.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)Warren_Pointe
(328 posts)Are any smart enough to figure out that they are lining up with their hands out ready to takes checks that can't be cashed?
They need to suffer the consequences of their actions. Their pet projects and programs need to be defunded with the least collateral damage.
Buckeyeblue
(5,500 posts)But we won't have any idea that it's going to happen until they vote. Because they will have to tell Trump up until the end that he has nothing to worry about. That way once the vote is final he is out before he even knows what has happened. He can't do any more damage.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Vinca
(50,302 posts)The public hearings will do one of two things. Either they'll be long, drawn out and boring and people will tune out and not care one way or the other, or they'll be explosively bad for the wannabe dictator. If his numbers drop significantly among likely Republican voters, the GOP will dump him like the bag of trash he is. Either way, forever and ever and ever he will have been impeached in the history books. That's important.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)That would be the best possible case. I do not expect it, though, although I'd welcome it.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Which is a change from even a few weeks ago. Who knows where we will be after another few weeks?
One of the beauties of Pelosi's strategy is that she waited until the house could extract and produce evidence that could actually move the needle, something that wouldn't have been possible if they'd moved right after the Mueller report.
orangecrush
(19,611 posts)And to save the republic are enough.
yaesu
(8,020 posts)he will be impeached but when it fails in the Senate he will brag about it, use it as a badge of honor. This is what happens when you have billions of dollars bribing, manipulating, threatening those in office and those dollars are from foreign and domestic enemies.
flying_wahini
(6,641 posts)IMHO Trump is going to remain in office and win second term.
Looking for real estate in Canada now.
PatrickforO
(14,586 posts)In the meantime, we all need to be tweeting and posting and talking to neighbors.
For sure.
Chemisse
(30,816 posts)And our Dem candidate had to run against a regular, old-fashioned never-Trumper Republican, like Weld or Romney.
We would lose our 'I'd vote for my dog before I'd vote for Trump' advantage, as voters considered both options and possibly chose the Republican.
I'd like to see Trump out before he does even more damage, but I am worried about what the next election would look like with him gone.
struggle4progress
(118,330 posts)panfluteman
(2,065 posts)Excellent and well-written article!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Nixon won a huge victory in 1972.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,032 posts)Give her the same chance while presenting PUBLIC hearings, and she is likely to be able to swing support overwhelmingly to conviction, which will get the attention of ALL the Republicon Senators. Cue the "We had no idea it was this bad!".
struggle4progress
(118,330 posts)Smackdown2019
(1,190 posts)If we hold our Senators and congressmen that are lawyers in the House and Senate we should have them a hold their oath to the Constitution of the United States. If they fail to do their oath, then they should be disbarred from their practice of law. This will make them rethink the price they will pay if they fail to do their constitution Duty in deciding if a person that has been unlawful.
Hulk
(6,699 posts)Yes the Senate may not impeach this piece of s***. But the Democrats need to get their message out there now and everytime they speak in front of the camera or on radio... he is guilty of crimes, he has been indicated as a suspect in at least 10 cases of obstruction... he has a suitcase full of other crimes he should be held accountable for for example emoluments, campaign violations with hush money, and the list goes on.
If these cowards in Congress the Republicans are unwilling to uphold their oath to the Constitution then let's make it very evident and clear to the voting public for 2020. You know the midget Mussolini is going to claim innocence, because he won't be convicted by the Senate... so we need to make it very apparent that he is, in fact, a criminal sleeping in the White House, with the assistance of the Russian government.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...still probably wouldn't get 20 Republican Senators (+ Manchin) to convict Trump. We're dealing with a party that is ethically bankrupt.
But, yes, impeachment is still called for. Trump has been committing impeachable offenses since day 1. To not impeach would set an incredibly dangerous precedent.
MarcA
(2,195 posts)I think the only way they turn on him is if he is seen as a threat to their
re-election or their majority in the Senate.
Smackdown2019
(1,190 posts)But we all know the answer..... wont happen with mitch.
Could it? Anything is possible.... but I believe there has to a record of vote and by whom.
keithbvadu2
(36,876 posts)Of course the republicans won't remove him.
But let them put themselves on record supporting his corruption.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,828 posts)The GOP Senators were pretty solidly behind Nixon almost until the bitter end. His approval ratings had been slipping throughout 1973 and started to slide even more after the Saturday Night Massacre, then more or less flatlined through 1974 until the tapes were turned over. But when the ratings hit about 25% the handwriting was on the wall and the GOPers knew they'd be toast unless they convicted him, and they let him know. Old Nixon had enough sense to take the hint and resign; Fat Nixon probably wouldn't, even under those circumstances. But the GOPers will be watching the polls very closely. That's what will determine how they vote.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)And I don't think we can count on a significant decline in Trump's approval rating.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,400 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)I wouldn't expect support for impeachment and removal to get any higher than 60%. Maybe McConnell will push for Trump to resign if it seems almost certain that Republicans will lose control of the Senate. But it's hard to say if Collins, Gardner and the other vulnerable Republicans are going to help or hurt their chances by turning on Trump.
Moscow Mitch may be confident enough in election fraud to not worry too much.
underpants
(182,868 posts)Exposure of the truth and what will almost inevitably be an embarrassing public display by Republicans is the goal and the prize.
brush
(53,833 posts)anything because impeachment will no longer be a threat as will have already beaten it.
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)Then, on election day, they will hang separately.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)Why do we feel Trump being in the election will allow us to have one that is free and fair of cheating!??
Who in the right mind is going to trust that ?!
Trump got caught cheating once means he wont do it again?!
I pray Red Don's numbers will be in the Hitler Nixon area and congress doesn't have to certify his win
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)... run for president after this and that is part of the case that should be made for his removal.
He aided and abetted cheating before, claimed he's gong to cheat in front of the camera's and then went about cheating to win.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)To beat Trump in the 2020 election, assuming he is the GOP candidate, just one thing is needed: A massive turnout of voters to vote against him, the likes of which has never been seen. That is legal. That will do the trick. Instead of looking for some way that isn't possible under our Constitution and laws, try helping to get people to the polling places, right where you are. That can work. Your extralegal plan cannot.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)... Moscow Mitch refuses to implement along with any other election security measures.
I'm not going to trust Trump wont implement such coming in the next election, Trumps stupid he'll make sure to implement the aforementioned even secretly this time.
"I trust Trump wont cheat again" isn't a confidence building statement from any of our pols or pols to be.
"If Trump runs we wont certify his win" is though
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)states. A massive Democratic turnout would have defeated him easily. But, we didn't get that, because we were fighting among our selves. I saw it in my own state of Minnesota. Hillary won here, but by only 50,000 votes. I know five people who voted for Jill Stein because they didn't like Hillary, and I don't know that many people, really.
If we turn out in historic numbers, we will win. If we screw around and don't bother, we will lose. It is that freaking simple.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)... cheats then his election should not be certified.
bluestarone
(17,021 posts)I'm really worried too. When they cheat again what will be done about it? THAT'S what worries me the most. They own the D.O.J. THEY make the rules. All they have to do is hold another FAKE investigation. We all need to take notice how our local elections are run. Get involved and push the vote! VOTE VOTE VOTE!!
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)... to trust Trump will do the right thing now !?!?
Tell Trump if he runs there's no certifying his win ... what other choices are there!??!
brooklynite
(94,700 posts)Trump voters knew who he was. They didn't care.
Turbineguy
(37,364 posts)The republicans will turn them into a freak show.
A lot of people who have covered for trump should worry.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)number of people.
Turbineguy
(37,364 posts)Of course, in those days, the republican party was not owned by Russia.
still_one
(92,371 posts)Public, and the verdict will be the 2020 election