I have checked that out. I thought maybe he was a "closet" racist. Not at all.

My only clue has been is that he was very, very poor as a child (only child) -- father deserted the family -- and his mother was not "adequate" and he was raised in a group home until mom got her act together. I am not sure, but I don't think his parents were married, but his father was much older than his mother and he had two older half-sisters. Made amends with Mom before she passed. Never had a relationship with his father, ever.

He made is successful. Has his own business and has made a nice living for himself and his family. Wife was a RW nut job from what I hear him say about her -- she passed from cancer 4 years ago this coming January. Married nearly 50 years.

He just amazed me yesterday listening to him at Thanksgiving dinner. The shit that came out of his mouth -- and not in an ugly, nasty manner -- but unbelievable to the point that I was shocked.

BTW: He's 75 years old and is hooked on Fox News.

I don't think I can make him see reality, but I am trying to get a clue why someone who is educated, intelligent and cares about people and animals would worship that piece of shit in the WH.

...I do not think many people actually how understand how effective the reich-wing Fox echo chamber can be. It is, for all practical purposes, the AmeriKKKan Ministry of Propaganda. The crap you heard coming out of his mouth was probably directly from Fox. I have a brother that is also a Fox addict... very smart guy, but gets his news and information from only one source: Fox.

Just like you asked us. But be ready to list all of Trump's shortcomings and make him defend those shortcomings.

My guess is he's been brainwashed by Fox.

Seems to be threatened with negativity on this issue.

Tell him maybe you're missing something about Trump and ask him to point out Trump's positives. Get him to tell you why he likes Trump. To get on his good side - tell him maybe you need to see Trump through his eyes.

J did this to one of my Trumper friends and he really couldn't explain himself. It didn't stop him from still liking Trump - but it made him stop and think and question himself. It put some doubt in his mind.

I'm hoping that with that doubt placed in his mind - he watches and listens to Trump and Fox with a different ear now. Maybe somewhere down the line - he'll be converted.

Sometimes that's all we can do.

I would like to ask him what is he fighting for and for who?

It worked for me and my Repug friend. She's really smart, owned her own business and has some $$ but not a ton, but was raised Repug in GA and her dad was Repug mayor of Columbus GA at one time. She's very anti-Rick Scott, so I asked her why she likes assmouth (of course I didn't use that word with her, just said Trump). She said "because he was a good businessman, started with 1 million from his father and turned it into billions." I then said, that after an audit of Fred Trumps taxes, he actually gave over $70 million to his son. I said if you took $70 million, put it in the bank for 50 years, how much should he have? Told her I'd read where just with regular interest, he'd now have over $10 billion, but he's saying he's worth $3 billion, so is losing $7 billions the mark of a good businessman. She agreed, that no, that wasn't sound business numbers and she never knew this information previously. (Of course she didn't, she watches Faux).

She's my best friend for the past 25 years and she's a super good person and really depends on me for emotional support after losing her husband, 2 sisters and a brother over the past 2 years. We love each other like sisters and have supported each other emotionally during some really rough times. I spout off about repugs all the time, but am gentle with her because of our deep friendship and love. We never talk about Democrats/Repugs, but do discuss Medicare & healthcare & climate change in depth. She actually recognizes and believes in science, even though she is (sadly) repug. She's also elderly (77), although she looks & acts much younger, so I just pray that enough facts will come out that she has to realize that drumpf ia a criminal abetted by most of the party she's supported her entire life.

So, yeah, I am gentle with him. I do not want to fight with him. I don't think he is emotionally sound enough to really get into a good, heated political discussion...close to an argument.

I some times feel like he is holding his life together and had lost so much that he is hanging on to Trump because of his late wife -- who seems to have been the force in the marriage and family. Like he would be lost totally if he questioned her thinking.

Fifty-plus years to be with someone -- 99% of it as a married couple -- that is a hard loss to take. I do think that this is some of why he cannot question Trump. It might feel like taking a part of his late wife out of his life.

BTW: What a sweetheart you are to your friend.

Those socialists are going to give someone (black, brown, gay, unworthy slacker) my donut.
Simply...keep your hand off of my stack.

sympathetic to those in poverty. Perhaps, the opposite happened with him. He may have an "I made it so nobody else has an excuse" attitude. Is one of his biggest issues spending on social programs like healthcare, food and housing assistance for the poor?

He does not seem to regret funding for those in need. His childhood would have been very bad but for the public aided group home he was in. Other than his mother, he really had no relatives close by to where they lived. He goes to functions to support this home and he and his wife took in a homeless teen a few years before she passed away.

Not being a “cherished child” can hurt ones psyche and have them turn to the cruelness of the repuke party and MF45. Fox knows how to manipulate these sad and angry people.

“ I had a rough childhood and pulled myself up by the bootstraps” is a common moniker.

I don't think he boastful about how successful he has made himself. I think that some of it comes from a not being secure about who he really is -- a success story -- and still stuck in his childhood misery. I thought about this after reading through this thread and the responses I got. Really got me thinking.

Fox News is a cancer on America and it metastasizes by the use of lies, half truths, and
reinforcing ones own prejudices and that makes one feel good about their own thinking.

Always remember your friend is on the wrong side of history. And one day he might be
able to see that Trump is a Russian asset trying to bring down America from the inside
because Putin owns him.

IMHO. It's usually either some abandonment like with your friend, or being ashamed of an unsuccessful dad. So they tremble for an arrogant daddy figure.

I'm being cruel, but every make trump cultist I know had a terrible or no relationship with their dad.

There is so much WRONG with Trump, it is hard for me to see where anyone can overlook it...unless, they did this all their life with "daddy" issues.

Hatred causes heart disease and clouds the mind.

He dislikes certain people like we all dislike -- rude and obnoxious people.

But he treats everyone pretty much the same and is polite and respectful. He is a mystery to me. How did someone this nice become so hateful of American values?

And...he is a very truthful person. How can he literally worship someone who lies, lies and lies?

Edit for typo

This doesn't mean he isn't racist. Some racist people burn crosses in other people's yards; some do nothing but be polite and respectful while working to support the status quo and demagogues whose rhetoric they admire.

gold plated sheepskin, but...
obama/trump voter.

after paying a lot of attention to this, i think that tho many were poked in their racism, some people were poked in the heart. their sense of fairness and justice got manipulated, and it pisses me the fuck off.
he has a few sources, and people that he follows. one of them is scott adams. that guy fucking creeps me out. talks like a carnival hypnotist, and seems to point out every show that you can believe your lying eyes.

i bought the ca whistleblowers book, but havent read it yet. these people were very sophisticated.
if there is hope for any of them, i think mine has a prayer. but mostly because he has me to beat some sense into his head.

...I have never seen a racist word or action from this man.

Never.

I am wondering is all of his Trump worship is based on economics?

Very poor as a child, made himself very successful...and he mistakenly thinks Trump is some wizard biz man?

been very effective at brainwashing.Watch the documentary, "The Brainwashing of My Dad" and you'll get a clue as to what you're dealing with.

https://documentaryreviewers.com/the-brainwashing-of-my-dad/

https://www.amazon.com/Brainwashing-My-Dad-Matthew-Modine/dp/B01C6AFDM6/

This man is sad and lonely and I don't want to walk away and not be a friend...but his political views are scary.

...and started watching. Very interesting. Thank you.

The pets needed their breakfast...so taking a break and doing some laundry.

Will finish later. Interesting on Ailes and the "Nixon Sound Bites." Thinking about Fox News, there is a lot of that.

should push him away!
The "war on tariffs" is killing the American farmer and industrial growth/expansion.
The deficit should make ANY "serious" Republican's head explode!
And that FAT F**K ain't gonna' be alive to see any of the impact his "decisions" have had on the US.

It's not fair - he's farting in the elevator and getting off at the next floor!

who resents his tax $$$ helping anyone with food, shelter, education, day care, medicaid.

A friend of mine fell on hard times and was losing her home. I said something and he along with other friends each ponied up without being asked $100 to help out. He gets his pets (loves cats) either by finding baby kittens and parenting them or going to shelters and adopting. Loves dogs, too.

In fact, he dislikes charter schools...thinks that the public schools deserve the tax dollars and should be made better. He has bucks and his two sons are public school educated and have Cal State University degrees. He said that they could go to any school they wanted and Cal State Long Beach was the choice.

This man has the personality traits of a liberal...why does he worship Trump????

I am totally stumped.

Edit for typo.

Some are very nice people and some are not. I have learned to simply not talk politics. Facts and reason did not get them into their political views so facts and reason will not change them. I just tell myself that people are complex and move on to find common ground.

He is lonely...and needs friends. He was devastated by the death of his wife. Married nearly 50 years and together 3 years steady before marriage. He needs friends and, yes, he is complex, but I am so puzzled by him.

Their brains actually respond differently. They are less open to new experience and don't handle uncertainly as well as liberals. And, in general, people often respond to fear by supporting authoritarianism and I think conservatives are even more likely to do so.

Faux Noise plays on that - basically manipulates their brain chemistry. It becomes addictive - the adrenaline rush of fear with the reassurance from Faux that Republicans can fix it.

Also, the neoliberals have created a world rife with uncertainty - eliminating unions which makes job stability less certain, making health care harder to get making financial stability less certain, and effing with the environment making weather less certain.

Since we all have unconscious bias (which we liberals tend to fight against), when all of that comes together, even without overt racism the us vs them default gets narrower and stronger.

Above, I set out his family background. I am thinking you hit on something -- the security he was lacking as a child. Being raised in a group home with a Mom that was not fit and this was in the late 1950s and early 1960s has gotta leave issues of uncertainty. Maybe the RW bullshit has made him feel safe -- rather than exploring the world as a liberal to see how it should be or could become.

There is something that appeals to him in he awful philosophy of Trumpism, my guess is that he has done well for himself, and sees Trump as the champion of financially successful people.

He just does not see that the financial success of Trump is really a fraud.

If Trump were so successful, he would have no problem IMO of his tax returns and financial info being released.

I believe the root cause is seeing anyone get something they didn't work for, like themselves. They believe no one should get anything they didn't work for and tRump made it himself. (denying, of course, that his wealth is all inherited.). Not racism, per se, but being anti poor. They must be lazy, etc..... Forgetting the golden rule and caring for others less fortunate. Perhaps it comes from a sense of insecurity and a deep down fear that their fortunes will somehow go away? I'm losing respect for so many of my friends because of this. A very sad thing.

I know a few people like that. They don’t like Тяцмр, they know he’s a joke and a criminal but they really like seeing the Washington establishment squirm and be really shaken up. They like that no one knows what to do with this guy. It’s a shitty way of going about it but they hated the status quo so much that they’ll take anything to change it.

Your friend has to be benefitting in some way from all this or it makes no sense at all. There has to be some latent assholism there for him to fully understand what this dude is doing and still liking him.

We're not the idiots that the right thinks we are, and the right aren't the idiots that we think they are. We've constructed bubbles that we're too comfortable in. It's creating a laziness of the mind.

If you want to understand him, you will fail if you start with the assumption that there's something wrong with him. Lack of respect usually gets reciprocated.

This isn’t politics as usual anymore. Anyone who supports Trump is either a racist, misogynist, or greedy, maybe all three. Sorry but the right wingers ARE the idiots we think they are. Trump won biggest with non-educated white people.

He was a "success" despite horrible early childhood difficulties. He made a good living - married - stayed with his wife.
Basically everything his parents were unable to do. Fox likes to punch down and propagandizes about lazy people who want to ride free on the efforts and achievements of others. He wants to associate himself with productive people (the "real" Americans...etc... who
hold everything together. It's a kind of self-virtue signalling. His self esteem is tied up in it.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Yes, he has a great deal of respect for traditional family values. He and I were discussing this yesterday. He admires people who are productive. He is not a believer in the "Welfare Queen" bullshit, but he does hold very traditional values.

I notice when I discuss issues with him, that at times he seems "uncomfortable" about looking at ideas other than what he has held on to for many years.

Got any ideas?

I guess

vote for anyone who will give them a tax break. It’s all about the money. They actually don’t care about anything else except keeping as much of their money as possible. That means voting Republican no matter what.

He does seem to fear losing his money. A throw back to when he was a very, very poor child in a group home with one pair of jeans and two shirts IMO.

More like insecure male syndrome. From what I heard, his late wife was the strong one in the family and he followed behind. Pretty much did what she wanted and she was a RWNJ from way back. Farm family in what used to be Dairy Country in Riverside County, CA.

I think he is afraid to take a look around him because he was comfortable for 50+ years letting someone else take care of things. His son says his dad is stuck in place and cannot move. Maybe that is why he is holding on to Trump for dear life?

Trump has a degree. W has a degree from an IVY league school. I could go on. A college degree doesn't require intelligence.

Intelligence exists outside of formal education. I've worked with many people who did not have a degree but were very intelligent. I think a degree helps people who are intelligent think/problem solve in a more efficient

My maternal grandfather who immigrated to the U.S.A. in the early 1910s.

So my question is, what did he get his degree in? Did he ever take the kinds of classes (and let's start with some philosophy ones) that involved examining ideas. Really examining ideas.

The real problem of course is that he watches only Fox News, and therefore gets very little factually correct information presented to him. And no matter how you try to present real facts/news/information to him, it won't get through. Which is sad. And scary. A lot like Nazi Germany in the early years.

Oh, and did you point out that the body was not Trump's? Did he even care?

You also say he's not religious, clearly not in the conventional sense. But a lot of people, maybe most people, don't really want to think for themselves and so are happy to belong to a religion, any religion, because that way someone is telling them what to think. For him, Fox News is his religion. They tell him what to think so he doesn't have to.

UCLA, Poli Sci, History.

Fox News is really blocking clear thinking. He saw the Trump/Rocky pic as Trump fighting for us. I am not sure who he thinks "us" is, but it scares me to think what people this includes. He saw that weird pic as a plus for Trump. Stunning thought to me. He did care, but in a positive not a negative way. Immediately after this statement, he made some nasty remark about Adam Schiff. Something to the effect that Schiff will pay for the wrong he is doing to Trump. My head was spinning.

His Mom was Jewish and his wife converted to Judaism although he is a non-observant Jew. Late wife was real active at the Temple from what he says. Mom from what he says was not that into it.

Supporting his policies, is supporting racism and bigotry. It’s the same thing. I don’t care how good someone is to their community or how many missionary trips they’ve made.

...not all Trump supporters are racists, but all racists are Trump supporters.

Higher education should, but doesn't always. equate higher income brackets. The more money you have the more you're willing to allow someone like Trump to be POTUS. They believe that he is looking after their best interests: Money, and not paying taxes.

that this man was probably susceptible to Fox and other RW propaganda in large part because of his difficult childhood plus his fear of losing the success he'd been able to create on his own throughout his life. If he is also lonely and somewhat isolated since his wife died (and apparently she influenced his thinking, too), he might be more dependent than ever on the pleasure of the adrenaline rush Fox's shit-stirring creates in people. Anger, especially the anger derived from being made to feel like the victim of bad people who are taking something from you, is addictive. Fox's talking heads (and Trump himself) know this, which is why they have so successfully brainwashed so many people.

Maybe, as others have suggested, you could ask him, without arguing, to explain why he thinks Trump is a good president. What has he done for the country? What positive results have his policies caused for your friend, personally, that he never had before? Why does he think Trump is a good role model for children? How have his tariffs benefited the economy? With low unemployment, are there enough American workers to fill all the agricultural and service industry jobs that will open up if immigration is cut off? Does he think building the wall will stop illegal immigration and drug smuggling? If so, why?

Keep asking why, without arguing at all or offering facts. Let him formulate and think about his own answers. Let him feel like he can persuade you to come around to his way of thinking. Nobody else is going to be able to pierce the Fox/Trump bubble he's in, but if he's an intelligent person maybe he can eventually pierce it himself.

Great post. I copied and pasted the questions you listed.

I am going to see if any of this gets him to talk and not hide from discussing the issue. Thanks again!

putting down evolution and promoting creationism. Couldn’t believe my ears.

Believes what they want?

....all after years of being indoctrinated by RW news outlets, talking heads, and probably a big fan of at least one Obama hater?

If they watch Fox & Friends and worse on Fox only, there you have it, a recipe for dumbfuckery politically speaking?

Maybe you simply have met someone who is impossible to demonize over political beliefs. Many of them do it to us, too, and that's one of the reasons I lean towards Pete Buttigieg, to become a truly United States again, we have to go back to seeing each other as people and not as monsters. I think Pete has that skill, and I find that Joe Biden has it, too.

We look at Trump and see a bloated, orange nutcase and they look and see a god.

And many like a president to exude "strength," no matter how bullshit that "strength" is.

Fear.

And he DOES know that posting a picture of yourself on someone's way hotter body doesn't make you a fighter--in any way, right?