The Judiciary Committee has yet to make the case to the public.

Stand by.

...Chair as opposed to Nadler. I like Nadler, but right now we need a very convincing voice to sell this and Nadler doesn’t strike me as being able to lean into this. Will Nadler be as convincing as Schiff was going up against the antics of Jordan, Gohmert, Gaetz and the likes? I hope so but I’m a bit nervous.

I was worried that Schiff had set the bar too high, but then I thought that it’s probably just as well if Nadler doesn’t even attempt the oratory. Schiff was *phenomenal* in his indignation and outrage, but it might have appeared biased from the head of the judiciary committee.

This is going to happen

1. Condition of the economy.

2. Economic conditions of red areas.

can swallow their f#*king pride and publicly change their minds...and write to their Senators!

He was not democratically elected. Dont forget that.

And somehow our fucked up electoral college system, further sabotaged by Putin, Assange, Repubs helping them, Zuckerberg's monster, Comey, a "both sides" media, and Repub dirty tricks and voter suppression, interpreted that vote as the con man "wins."

but first we need Moscow Mitch to step on a rake and leave.

work toward thst end.

impeachment will be the Senate trial. Count on the Republican Senate to make it into a circus.

They will call for both Joe and Hunter Biden to testify. A conservative justice.appointed by a Republican will preside. All rhe BS from the House hearings will be brought up again.

And.although there already is precedence from other impeachment hearings (against some judges), they will make new rules for this one.

Whatever way the vote goes, there will be protests from the other side. It could get really ugly.

If this historian is wrong that it'll grow sufficiently after the vote for impeachment is taken, he won't be wrong about that movement growing after a senate vote to acquit.

"... He's a base politician. He doesn't know how to turn this around." True. Not before and not after. And he's going to take a lot of Republicans down on his rotten coattails.

Hope, hope for the first scenario. If not that, the real test of public support is going to come on November 3, 2020.

you say he will, "take a lot of Republicans down on his rotten coattails."

the public is aware and paying attention, the Republican Party has become extremely corrupt and betraying, and I believe many more dangerous secrets will now be uncovered.

And old, ignored revelations will become newly explosive. I suggest (hope) that because I read that most of what the whistleblower revealed was actually reported by investigative journalists nearly a year ago. Looked one up, and yup, there it was, probably read it myself back then. But in an environment of daily reporting of what would be enormous scandals in other eras, we just passed on by what were mostly unnoticed but hardly unarmed political IUDs.

now getting more attention, too. For example the suspicious financial dealings with Russian oligarchs/mob. I have long suspected many of the same people who are now being scrutinized.

But like you said, so much was constantly being reported that some of these things seemed to get lost in in the shuffle. I got discouraged that nothing would ever be fully investigated and proven for all to see.

So now I'm encouraged to see these things brought to light. But Trump and his gang have gotten away with so much for so long that I'm cautious in my hope.'

and undoubtedly knew a bunch before it was reported and other info they had brought out in the investigation. After all, this started in 2014 and targeted our VP, and threatened our work over there. In any case, when the whistleblower report triggered this bomb under the Republicans, they were ready and moved quickly. I've wondered if we had anything to do with that triggering.

Initially the house was unable to do anything so long as Dems were in the minority. Things have moved quite fast since the 2018 midterms gave us the House.

the senate! 2020.

for all we know or he knows.

A temporary eager surge in approval (relief) won't last. He and their other leaders are extremely corrupt, and we've now started their dominoes tumbling.

Thing is, he's been playing exclusively to his whackjob base all along, the party's already been hemorrhaging support, and he was already making it very difficult for the most responsible still with them to hang in. Now, as new disastrous revelations continue...

"Recover" isn't what he does. He's lives and breathes through PR machinery that uses "game," "hoax," "alt-fact" and "religious" framing, so he pivots. He plays, also, to media that include radio right wing interpretations to millions who want to be on a winning side no matter what. He plays to Wall Street and autocratically inclined billionaires.

"Hemorrhaging" seems like a good image for us, "but" how it changes Repub votes as much as validates Democratic votes is still unknown. I haven't seen Republican polls, but only hear that they hold steady.

No dominoes in some swaths of the country, even those that are not the cult.
No "guilty" votes from the responsible. We've had enough disastrous revelations to know they're riding this out to the bitter end. They think it's the only thing to save what pretense of integrity they have left.

I keep looking for signs that there will be a large enough population with shocked conscience enough to outvote the above.

but I don't think it's inevitable, especially if we point out that it was by a hyper-partisan Republican-controlled Senate that has, so far, not only refused to act but flat out told us that their fingers are already glued into their ears, so they wouldn't convict Trump no matter what is said/uncovered. In short, as long as we point this out, we can minimize any "bump" he gets from an acquittal. In order for Trump to have any real "victory", he'd have to get some Democratic votes for acquittal. Are any wavering or on the fence about it so far?

I'm seriously thinking of wanting to go back and see how Clinton's acquittal in 1998-1999 was handled/viewed, because he was facing a hyper-partisan Republican-controlled Senate that hated his guts but just simply didn't have enough votes to convict because not enough Democrats (any?) broke off to help the Republicans get to 67 votes.

there were potential wavers, they'd have been called out by now.

We're good to go, and we should be telling our Republican friends to call their senators to convince them to think of their oaths of office.

My one-liner to Trumpers these days is: call your rep to have him think on his oath of office, because it's going to be his job or jail.

So far, it's working, because I get silence and head drops.
They're thinking. Maybe they'll even make the call.

Joe Manchin

Whether it's him being from West Virginia, where there is generally strong support for Trump (although I don't know why) or whether he sort of genuinely supports Trump and wants to work with him for some reason, he has been pretty wobbly when it comes to major votes against Trump and/or his nominees. I could very well see him possibly casting a vote acquitting Trump in the Senate. I don't think that there will be any others in the Senate but him, but Trump would definitely welcome his vote of support and be sure to mention it a thousand times a day to attack the Impeachment/Removal effort *if* and when he is acquitted.

n/t

Absolutely nothing is going to make Trump's support tank. It's stayed around 40% for 3 years.

The cult is not 40% of the citizenry.
That's much lower.
Some follow without all the facts, some look only at their personal finances.
There is a significant swath of that 40% that could be swayed by proof of crimes.

We're still only at 50% impeachment and removal, despite 2 weeks of bombshell testimony prove Trump is abusing his power and betraying America for personal benefit. If that wasn't enough to sway people, nothing will.

An impeachment proceeding will garner a different tenor of coverage.
Broader awareness is likely to occur than now.
As I said, we shall see.

at the end to 12%, when very hard-core supporters who approved everything he did finally realized they'd backed a loser who wasn't going to make them victorious. Authoritarians want strong men, and a hole in that delusion will collapse it. However, they're not the people we need to just not vote, much less the few percentage who might actually switch to us.

Totally agree. This idea that the cult is yuge is Fox and magat amplification.

My bet is that the numbers aren't there.

the real question: "does Vladimir Putin want Trump removed from office?"
i could see it going either way at this point, but i think Putin plays a risky game if he tries to push his Trump-advantage much further. he got a lot of what he wanted, now it might be time to solidify his position with a slightly more credible, yet still (to him) acceptable president Pence.
if Putin's still in "takings" mode, he'll keep his GRUprop machine ginning up support for Trump which will lead to some, shall we say, surprising results in the 2020 elections.

who will never change their minds, but it's not 40%. If at the end of this it's more than 25% - which isn't nearly enough to win an election - I'd be very surprised.

This is something that many people miss.

People don't vote for the Candidate in the general election. They vote for the Party.


We need to turn people against Republicanism. Just turning them against Trump isn't enough, but people will still vote party over person.

and we need them to cascade. I'm sure this historian isn't talking about Trump out of context, although many of Trump's voters are actually estranged from the party leaderhip -- he was actually a rebellion against them.

The gates are now open, international media are all over it, and it's impossible not to believe much will continue to come out through press and official investigations.

powerful and very ruthless gutter fighters, and Putin is also. There WILL be new dramas. I'm awed by our top people's ability to continue to carry the future of our nation on their shoulders. I can only imagine they're able to sleep because of their own weapons and knowledge of Republican weaknesses.

My biggest fear every election of this era is a well-timed terrorist attack or attacks, or something else that makes people cling to authority for protection. W's approval soared to around 90% with 9/11. That was total support, not just Republican.

Can't protect against everything. But no matter where I live, lacking a direct hit, I wouldn't need FEMA handouts after just a handful of days. Sheltering at home at least with food, water, medication and first aid, warmth, waste disposal (and a few supplies in the cars also) all taken care of, pretty basically, but for at least several weeks. We also know where family who couldn't stay home would plan to go.

but after the first time visiting friends who did, I'd bring contributions to the pot like everyone else. Didn't matter what it was as long as it wasn't processed, all went in a small wash tub used as a big pot.

Oh my. You're right about getting heavy, something even most of the biggest complainers are too used to stability and largesse to believe could happen. But thanks for the memories.

Trumpers are ignorance on steroids.

That's already been decided. Even if we finally get his financials, and they show Putin himself made direct deposits into tRump's account. Rethugs will still scream white is black, and black is white.

An astounding number of people out there don't watch any news programs. They get everything from Facebook. Whatever they see there is their truth. Like, Hillary runs a porn ring.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't shove their head under.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

she noted that regardless of polls, voters have been smacking down Trump supporters since 2016, in many special elections, as well as the mid terms and the recent ones.

Promising, but I'll believe it when I see it.