General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI've decided that impeachment is absolutely essential even...
... though we know the senate won't convict. This is to get all the facts out on the table and to educate the American public about the Constitution.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)and also to go into the Congressional record and eventually the Natl archives. It's also extremely important to get every congressman and Senator on record for how they voted. Personal honor and integrity and faithfulness to an oath of office is virtuous. They will have to live with the honor or shame of their vote.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)There is a lot at stake here. A whole lot. The whole thing.
It is interesting about the civics problem we seem to have. I assume that immigrants who apply for citizenship still have to go through the rigors of learning about and being tested in regards to what we are talking about.
Now, how deplorable is it that we see so many people that are born here who don't seem to have even a basic grasp on how our government functions.
It is obvious that we need more emphasis on an unbiased foundation in basic civics about how this government functions and what the value of that is. I don't think it would take much to do that and it could be covered easily in a short period.
Our democracy depends on that. Ignorance leads to an uniformed citizenry who don't even know or care about the vigilance required to keep this and then progress. Everything is pointing to more assaults to come from various directions, so the situation is critical in that regard.
Ingersollman
(204 posts)are absolutely correct. Ignorance, willful ignorance, will be the end of this country, and indeed this civilization. The planet will move on.
fleur-de-lisa
(14,625 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)How could Congress justify not impeaching the most criminal president in history? What would that say to future presidents?
yellowdogintexas
(22,261 posts)credibility and any future House which felt the need to impeach would not have a leg to stand on.
lame54
(35,293 posts)lostnfound
(16,180 posts)Maybe something more will come to light that affects his supporters enough to tip some senators.
Or this education will tip enough voters to make the critical difference in November.
Or some GOP senators will lose because of it.
Or Donald will have a nervous breakdown and resign.
At the very least, it will go down in the history books that some Americans opposed the madman. That the Democrats stood up for the constitution.
Or local GOP people will be so disgusted they will split off into a new party.
coti
(4,612 posts)knowing you did everything you could. And I don't see how doing it right could be worse than the alternative.
coti
(4,612 posts)Future generations are counting on us.
dalton99a
(81,515 posts)Silence is consent
Lonestarblue
(10,011 posts)They are either complicit in his crimes or theyre the most incompetent legislators in history. Theyve become masters at twisting the law.
RANDYWILDMAN
(2,672 posts)the R's have nothing
lunatica
(53,410 posts)so I think it should be treated as history for future Americans.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)Trump will obviously not be convicted. In fact, his base will rally and independents seem to be moving TOWARD Trump in swing states, especially here in the Midwest, since proceedings started. But to avoid impeachment for reasons of political expediency would in the end just embolden Trump and future autocrats. It must be done because the law requires it be done. End, full stop.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,622 posts)I can understand why you'd be fearful, but in actuality, the available data shows that since the inquiry started, all the top tier Dem candidates still beat Trump in head to head match ups, nationally, and in 2/3 Rust Belt states, including Wisconsin.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)over Biden. He has larger leads over all the other candidates. Last summer he was down ten, so the trend is really bad. People around here love Donald Trump because they are racists and idiots.
calimary
(81,304 posts)HAVE TO.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)Impeachment is required, constitutionally, regardless of political consequences. To not impeach would be to forfeit any right to say we are governed by laws. To not impeach would be to say, "Yes, Trump is a king."
Perseus
(4,341 posts)WILL NOT be voting for trump. Not sure where you get this from, he only has about 30% support, and it is the same people that go to his rallies, and I have to think that a lot of those at his rallies are paid to go there, that is what unpopular dictators do, they pay people to show up at their rallies.
But anyway, that is why I hope he is impeached/indicted, along with Pence before the elections.
BigmanPigman
(51,608 posts)This is the point of the whole thing. We have to enforce the Constitution, not play politics. It is the principle idea with the Founding Fathers and checks and balances. This is the foundation of our country, damn it!
Maybe walking past Independence Hall in Phial going to work every day and growing up surrounded by our history I feel so much passion, respect and patriotism for our country. It kills me to see it being destroyed by our own govt. The TREASONOUS BASTARDS in the GOP must be made an example of for future citizens in the years to come.
nuxvomica
(12,429 posts)Impeachment may at least have a chilling affect on further abuses, at least overt ones, as one of the gravest effects of the Trump hellscape of a presidency is that it gives license to illegal, unethical and hateful behavior by members of the public.
bitterross
(4,066 posts)When history is written it will be important to note that one party did the right thing and the other part became a cult.
iluvtennis
(19,862 posts)DENVERPOPS
(8,835 posts)if all of the Trump's administration hadn't illegally been able to refuse to answer subpoenas.........
His crowd won't hear a word, or even think about a single thing other than what the Republicans/Trump tells them.............
An old guy once told me: The hardest time there is to learn something, is when you think you know it all.....
Their crowd reminds me so much of the 1000 in the cult that literally drank the "koolaid"...........
Pobeka
(4,999 posts)On show for those who don't vote is a stark difference, as stark as it gets.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Doesn't strike me as having anything to do with "educating the public about the Constitution," which seems a very strange reason to impeach somebody.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Moostache
(9,895 posts)Step 1) - hold transparent hearings and publish EVERYTHING
Step 2) - bring all relevant witnesses to public hearings, stress that others are defying LAWFUL subpoenas
Step 3) - interview experts in Constitutional Law and Impeachment
Step 4) - Draft articles of Impeachment
Step 5) - Make sure the GOP votes are hung on their necks in EVERY ad and campaign stop
Step 6) - watch 2018's historic Blue Wave be overtaken by 2020 Blue Tsunami
The critical thing here is to start, right NOW, laying the groundwork for the GOP's duplicity to haunt them.
We KNOW they are not going to convict or remove.
We KNOW they are going to pretend a grave injustice was being done to them, uber-victim-alles that they are.
We should be ahead of this curve with ads and media appearances (and NOT from the back-benchers, from the Party headliners and future leadership) stating full-throated objections to Trump's crimes and obstructions and false claims of privilege.
There is overwhelming evidence that Trump directed a crime, a cover-up and obstructed Congress in every step of the Ukraine scheme.
There is overwhelming evidence that the GOP is unwilling to say "up is up", "down is down" or "2+2=4" as long as Trump does not.
There is overwhelming evidence that Trump will continue to spin, prevaricate and flat out lie about EVERYTHING.
We need to simply say "Yeah? That all you got?" and proceed to unload on him again and again and again until the message sinks in to the general population that says they don't even know what the fuss is all about. If Steyer and Bloomberg REALLY want to help and want to spend money to defeat Trump (and not just insure they are in position to protect their wealth or use it to purchase power), then they should suspend their campaigns, unite in common cause and use their fortunes and platforms to take down Trump once and for all.
If Democratic Party (or self-professing for convenience) billionaires want to help, they can help us outspend the GOP hate machine and spend them into oblivion much like the USA-USSR arms race helped to bankrupt the USSR and 'win' the Cold War.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)The proof, the article of impeachment must be drafted in such a way that there is no room but to indict. All proof must be brought to the table, including "Obstruction of Justice" which he has committed twice (many times on each), once during the Muller investigation and once during the impeachment inquiry. To leave out obstruction of justice is a mistake. Emoluments must also be presented, there are plenty of examples/proof that he has also committed misdemeanors pertaining to the emoluments clause.
All of his rants against the country must be presented, there is so much to provide that would ridicule trump, provide plenty of proof of his crimes and misdemeanors that well presented would give the Senate no other recourse but to indict.
We must stop repeating that the Senate will not indict, we must change the script by saying "there is so much proof of trump's crimes and misdemeanors that if the Senate were not to indict it would prove they are as guilty as trump, and as traitors as he is." Or something like that, but the meme of their treason must begin now. They must be forced to indict, just like republicans changed their tune during Nixon, leave no room for them to do otherwise.
coti
(4,612 posts)the evidence in any real way- because they won't. Don't leave it open, like with the Mueller Report, that maybe these fascists a-holes have some respect for the rule of law left. That's what allowed them to obfuscate.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Runningdawg
(4,517 posts)Nitram
(22,811 posts)cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)population is willing to accept corruption and corrupt public officials as long as it makes them go from feeling powerless and weak to feeling powerful and strong.
After all the knowledge about Trump including the fact that he inherited his wealth as well as his character and his numerous business disasters not to mention his disgusting treatment of women, minorities and the disabled was already well known but millions supported him and still do.