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shockey80

(4,379 posts)
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 01:49 PM Dec 2019

The American people have long history of ignoring obvious great danger until it starts killing them.

Today is Dec. 7th. On Dec. 7th 1941 Japan bombed pearl harbor. Admiral Yamamoto in his famous quote described us perfectly. " I fear all we have done is to awaken a Sleeping giant."

WWII started in 1939. The American people slept for two years as Hitler took over Europe. The American people did not wake up until pearl harbor was bombed and thousands of sailors were killed. Because we slept for two years the death toll of WWII was much higher. It is impossible to know how many lives would have been saved if we entered the war earlier.

Imagine Japan did not attack pearl harbor. We would have continued to sleep, stay out of the war. We would not have built the bomb. Perhaps, Hitler may have been the first to build the bomb. Ignoring obvious great danger can have unimaginable consequences.

For three years the American people have ignored an obvious great danger, Trump. Soon will reach a moment of truth, the Trump trial.
Will the American people wake from their slumber and protect themselves? Will they demand a lunatic be removed from office? Or will they continue to sleep until the danger starts killing them? We will know the answer to that question very soon.

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virgogal

(10,178 posts)
1. The death toll was not higher because America didn't enter the war earlier.
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 01:54 PM
Dec 2019

Where did you get the idea that it was?

 

shockey80

(4,379 posts)
2. If we entered the war earlier it probably would have ended earlier with less lives lost.
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 02:01 PM
Dec 2019

Like I said it's something that's impossible to prove.

 

virgogal

(10,178 posts)
3. The why blame the American people.They had
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 02:15 PM
Dec 2019

the Congress they wanted and Congress didn’t declare war. The situation today is completely different.

4. Of course it was higher. Had we entered early we could have cut probably a couple
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 02:55 PM
Dec 2019

of years off WWII. A shorter global war would have meant fewer people would have died worldwide.

But more AMERICANS surely would have died under that scenario. And that's why we didn't, why isolationism was our choice for a good spell.

Our most self-interested delay of all was, after entering the war, not attempting to liberate France for years... not opening a Western front against against Hitler.

Dec 1941 we were in the war. We held off on Normandy until June 1944... that's a long time.

But during that long span Britain at least was safe. Meanwhile we were heavily committed in the Pacific.

And most fortuitously of all, Germany and Russia were beating the holy hell out of each other on the opposite side of Europe. The battles of Moscow and Stalingrad were the two bloodiest battles Planet Earth has ever seen. The German-Russian part of WWII was the single biggest conflict in human history. Over 50 million people died in WWII, and Russians alone made up more than 20 million of them.

It was the Russians who reversed the tide of WWII in Europe. Not us. We held off on our big push against Hitler from the West until after Russia suffered their unimaginable losses and in doing so first put the Nazis on the run.

Stalin was as bad a fucking monster as Hitler, I'm no admirer of the former Soviet Union. But we absolutely could have saved several million Russian lives (and at least 2 or 3 million Jewish lives from death camps in Germany and Poland), and thereby significantly reduced the total tally of dead from WWII, had we not delayed like we did, both in first entering the war, and then in opening a Western front in Europe.

Thing was, tho, those were Russians dying to reverse the course of the war in Europe. So, to spare American lives, we weren't in a big hurry. Those were self-interested decisions. But I don't feel in a position to significantly question them; I'll leave it at just understanding them.

9. Adding that, it's not like the people who were suffering over there didn't know we were stalling.
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 09:55 PM
Dec 2019

Churchill implored us for over a year to enter the war and rescue England. That was an existential plea from the Mother Country itself, but Roosevelt's answer pre-Pearl Harbor had to be, Sorry, politically, I just can't do it. We can supply you, but I can't send American soldiers. We're all rooting for your RAF against the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain, though!

After Hitler decided he wanted more than Poland in the East and flipped on his "ally' the Soviet Union, Stalin, suddenly OUR ally instead, implored FDR for years, plural, to open a Western front and save Russia from the decimation it was suffering at the hands of what was clearly the best military to ever exist. Suffering that Russia was doing all alone. No nation in history has ever lost as high a proportion of its population in a war as Russia did in WWII. (Well, maybe North Korea 1951-1953 when Curtis LeMay leveled every city in the country. We'll say no major nation has.)

Roosevelt replied, Sorry Joe. Later... I promise! For now, we can help you with war materiel. Keep killing those krauts!

American Jews, aware of the Holocast that was going on, strived mightily to educate FDR about it and get America heavily into the fight against Germany from the West. Roosevelt wasn't particularly Jew-friendly and largely ignored them. Later we'd claim we had no idea what was going on in the camps.

America was vitally important in achieving Victory In Europe, obviously. But for domestic consumption we've always spiffed up our roles a bit... as any nation does. War is the ugliest business on earth, and going about it with a certain ruthlessness usually does work better for one's side than does nobility. My own father was in that war but managed to not die in it. I got to be conceived a decade afterwards as a result and I now selfishly regard that as a good thing. Like Patton said, in war the idea is to get the OTHER GUY to die for HIS country. This America not infrequently has done. And I don't feel in a position to complain about it.

 

virgogal

(10,178 posts)
7. I hardly think climate change can be lumped in with cigarettes.sugar.and obesity.
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 07:34 PM
Dec 2019

No comparison whatsoever.

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