Did you really think the Senate was going to take it seriously?

their corruption.

This is not about me or my surprise.

We all have a right to our default trust in an honest constitutional process effort.

Since the Senate leader has made it known nationwide that this is definitely not going to happen, we need to dismiss the Senate as a body of prejudiced jurors, even as they're not technically jurors.

No, there was never any chance. With McConnell in charge, it was always going to amount to nothing.

You sound like it.

It absolutely does not have to amount to nothing.

To let it amount to nothing is to give in to the stigmatizing Democrats have witnessed since Reagan.

This is the point at which we absolutely do not shoot ourselves in the head, a disastrous mistake that will be exploited in every candidate's ads during the entire 2020 Republican campaign.

I always saw this coming and I hope we didn’t send our freshmen overboard in the process.

paymasters and controllers?

I'm beginning to think that every (r)epuglicon that ever was keeps his (sometimes her) fingers crossed when swearing on the bible or to "uphold and protect" the US.

and the vote was virtually party line in that instance. The same thing happened in the Andrew Johnson impeachment trial.

I'm one of those who derided her for not taking action. When she did, Trump had to flush 150 times. I now defer to Nancy on everything.

Except for praying.

of the indictment until newly sworn senators actually will live up to their oaths.

I don't understand why such a tremendously bad idea is getting so much press right now

It would just look like the whole thing fizzled

And those are people on both sides whose minds aren't going to change.

won't involve facts, and that he has a predetermined outcome? Just impeach Trump, make the statement, then don't send it.

Or is there some magical thing that will occur that would make it okay to send the articles?

With evidence and witnesses and everything?

And he will be...what then?

I thought this was was to show the people the repubs are Russian stooges.

We follow the constitution per our oaths.

that he's not even going to attempt to be objective and look at the evidence. In such a case, don't send the articles.

The Constitution also says that, referring to the Senate (Article I, Section 3, Clause 6). It doesn't sounds like MM is ready to take an oath to provide an objective trial, does it?

For starters, how long would the articles be held? What would have to occur before they were sent? And what are the odds that there whatever that trigger is will occur or that it will impact the ultimate outcome of the Senate trial?

Breaking with precedent is a bad look for Democrats, especially when the Republican narrative, repeated by the media, will be that the Democrats rushed to impeach and now don't have the courage to see the process through. Trump will whine that he is not being given his day in court. And all of that will drown out the message that the Senate trial will not be "impartial" as if that is some big surprise.

Pelosi cannot prevent the articles from being sent to the Senate unless she can force members of her own caucus -- the folks that will have just voted to impeach -- to publicly vote against sending the articles. Those members will be skewered for having rushed to impeach and then put the process on hold. That the Senate was going to acquit has been known forever. If the House didn't want the articles to go to die in the Senate, they shouldn't have adopted them but instead should have kept the Judiciary Committee investigation open without adopting any articles until they were ready to adopt all articles at once and then send them to the Senate.

RIGGED! CROOKED! FAKE TRIAL!!

"the fake president got a fake trial." Hang that around the necks of the Repukes when they run for re-election.

This is too important for a compromised Senate to adjudicate.

Leave the decision in the hands of the people, and continue to investigate and add articles of impeachment until the day of election 2020.

Any Republican can offer a resolution directing the House to name managers and send the articles to the Senate. That resolution is considered "privileged" and has to be voted on before other business can be transacted. Folks are dreaming if they think the House Democrats who just voted to adopt articles of impeachment will all decide to defy precedent and vote, in effect, to stick the articles on the shelf until some unknown time when some unknown event will occur that will then clear the way for the articles to be delivered to the Senate.

I feel like that's why they made all the comments about not offering a fair trial.....
Because then they can stop it from going to the Senate entirely.... And therefore stop the impeachment entirely...


Ugh what a mess...

... a KKK fake trial with the fix already in... Try him.

( Notice that the red states are the same ones who used to "exonerate" KKK murderers? )

This is a false choice. Nothing says Trump cant be impeached again.. and again.. and again. And there are already lots of other crimes to impeach him on.

Let Mitch stage his farce. Let him show the country what a Republican really stands for. Make him do it a second time.. or a third.

And then run against them all in 2020 as ACCESSORIES AFTER THE FACT. Put their senate votes on a placard above their heads and crucify them with it.

They've all probably taken the Russian blood money. Pin that on them.

We are already over 50%. The needle is moving in our favor. Make them pull their circus.

And then impeach Trump a second time, for lying about Blow Jobs, and get Stormy and Michael Cohen to testify.

Mitch spent years stopping the government from functioning. We could do it too.

Madame Speaker, I've been completely wrong. She knows what shes doing.

Trump's unhinged 6 page letter is proof positive that she is leading the Idiot-in-Chief by the nose.

Ds can make great hay of this. Don't necessarily pass it this week. Let it run for a few days, starting with a line-by-line rebuttal of Trump's letter. That will take one day, and will demonstrate what a madman we have as "President."

Day 2 can focus on the theme of "what are you trying to hide, Mr. President?"

Day 3 can focus on McConnell and the Senate.

Day 4 can be the actual vote. Take as much time as the Ds need to allow Trump and McConnell to make the case.

The Ds can wrap this up by the weekend and score a lot of PR points. I like our case MUCH better!

Last edited Tue Dec 17, 2019, 08:49 PM - Edit history (1)

by TalenaGor.

It would explain the statements of how McConnell and Lindsey Graham have their minds made up.

However, Pelosi can only do what her position as speaker prescribes. She won't hold this up from going where it's supposed to be going. To do something like that would be to give credence to the types of crazy statements people like McConnell and Graham are making.

Once her job is done, she's ended her responsibilities. That's all she can do.

If they do what they threaten, then that's what they do. It's on them.

Senate is not functioning. Hundreds of bills remain shelved, no one discusses them. Only spending and conservative judges see the light of day. This is not a U.S. Senate. It is a McConnell Fiefdom

if the house fails to impeach the president, or fails to treat it as an actual impeachment, republicans will trumpet that there's no there there, that democrats got nothing on him, that he's exonerated, blah, blah, blah.

c'mon. it's like the police saying let's not arrest the gangsters because we know they'll just rig the jury.


now, i agree that we should keep investigating them, and keep the media focused on donnie's high crimes and misdemeanors. however, i can't see how it helps our case in any way whatsoever to then just drop it.

we have to impeach, we have to let the senate have their rigged trial, and then we have to rail against the senate for conducting a rigged trial.


honestly the *whole point* of impeachment in this case is to put *senate republicans* in a tough spot. we're not actually removing donnie, not gonna happen. but hopefully, we can win the senate and the white house in 2020 if this plays out right in the media.

but we can't get there unless republican senator in swing districts tie their fates to donnie, or piss off their base by failing to do so.

I support withholding sending to the senate

yes, the media will dominate with republican talking points *always*. but the sham will be there for all to see.

if we don't send impeachment over to the senate, virtually 100% of the coverage will be pro-trump. the punditocracy won't be able to say hey, we speculated that the trial might maybe be a sham so we didn't bother impeaching him. sorry, but that dog don't hunt.

if we don't impeach, we got *nothing*, and we're guaranteed to lose in november.

It's a tough call. If it doesn't go to the senate, the GOP will maintain that we didn't have a case and ran away.

we make a mockery of the whole investigation and we implicitly say his conduct didn't rise to the level of impeachment if we fail to impeach.

if republicans then choose to make a mockery out of the trial portion of the process, that's on them and let them fact the consequences of that in november.

Thanks.

Nancy will follow the established precedent and will send it to the senate. This isn’t political. Not sending it to the senate, will work against us also. And maybe even worse. Blaming dems for doing all this just for political reasons... not sending to the senate for a fear of acquittal. Let senators break their oaths and participate in treason if they wish. We have made our case. We will continue to investigate and will bring MORE articles of impeachment to send to senate. Lets drag the entire gop into impeachment AND control the news, taking away trumps megaphone as all networks follow impeachment and public testimonies. I bet there are more wistleblowers out there. Don’t become a victim of putins propaganda machine that corners dems into not sending articles to the senate. Senate can talk all thy want. But when the articles hit the ground and more witnesses are brought for public testimony, those gop senators will be facing the most important vote of their career. Remember, NO trump’s stooges are willing to testify under oath. Because they dont want to commit perjury.
Also, the public AND his base will be witnessing trump’s refusal to testify in GOP senate. This is a sign of weakness and the base hates it.

Concerned that it goes to Senate, they pull their stupid stunt as predicted. Then what. I and others don't want it to be the grand finale. If articles of impeachment can be drawn up and sent to the Senate ad infinitum, then I'm down with the House actions. I do trust them. I have to at this point.

but if the gang of 4: murkowski, romney, gardner and collins join dems in voting for the rules and procedures of senate trial, then will see more witnesses. The vote is safe for them since it’s just a procedural vote. Senate public witness testimony is likely to be even more eye opening and may help us in defeating trump in 2020. We will never get 67 votes to convict, but even if we somehow after all this get the majority (51), it may have psychological impact.

I have limited savvy in things political. Just a bystander. I get leanings in my spirit and at times they are correct. And sometimes not.

I would welcome 'the pins and needles' feeling to finally be gone!

Once the Senate votes to acquit (or simply to drop the charges) this time, that will be it in the minds of the public. Continuing to press the matter thereafter will simply make the Democratic House look like they're grasping at straws ("This wasn't enough to remove Trump from office? Then how about this?" ). It will make us look ridiculous (since we know the result will be the same) and petty and will, if anything, increase sympathy and support for 45.

I favor holding back the charges until we can get testimony and evidence that's currently tied up in the courts. But, if we're determined to impeach and send the charges to the Senate tomorrow, that should be IT. Take the Senate's verdict, and never discuss impeachment again. I'll go further: if that is the approach, should 45 then commit an even more egregious offense of election-rigging, we shouldn't even consider impeaching then, either. The only grounds for a further impeachment effort should be if Cheetolini is caught red-handed at something so much more egregious, it makes both the Ukraine and Mueller/Russia investigation look like child's play. Otherwise, all it can do is backfire on us.

undermining of our system of government and the rule of law. The Senate will have to choose whether to try to justify the continued criminal behavior of boss Trump and his henchmen or to hold a sham trial.

step is the Senate where the fascist will piss all over the constitution and turn it into a circus.

waiting for a time that will never come, yep, that makes perfect sense.

the house could vote on a resolution that spells out that "the house approves articles of impeachment if and when the speaker decides to forward such articles to the senate"

so technically the house wouldn't have impeached him *just yet* until pelosi dots every 'i' and crosses every 't', but it would enable her to do it at any time and to use that power to put pressure on mcturtle.

donnie would be able to claim he hasn't technically been impeached yet, but then democrats could say but the house did vote to do that at a time of the speaker's choosing....

is for it to be OVER WITH so he can get out his megaphone and crow 24/7 about being totally exonerated and found completely innocent in a fake witch hunt. Slam the door on it! (Even though that's not what happened.)

The sooner it goes to the Senate the sooner that happens.

It's not going to help us.

After the six-page letter rant, and especially after he apparently threatened Adam with, what, execution? for doing their Constitutional duty, I think we virtually have to do it. We have to stand up for We The People.

I admired the way the Dems kept asking the Repubs today what they really thought, even though they all squirmed and tried not to answer. I liked what Hastings had to say, the down-to-earth style he had, and his appealing phrasing. This must have played well with anyone who was bewildered by the GOP crap they spewed out.

I keep wishing that the Ukraine President would show up as a witness to explain why the Repubs keep repeating that he had said there was no pressure. You can't tell me that something else wasn't going on. I think that guy is in a horrible position, and his country is in a vicious war with his country in danger of being swallowed up by Russia. But, you can see why he doesn't.

There is nothing guaranteed. Trump is never going to go willingly. In a strange way, the whole thing is rather moot. But, we will get to see who votes for what during the trial, and we will keep a list of the traitors. The only smart ones were the ones who quit.

And, you have to wonder why oh why these traitors are openly and notoriously stating their intent not to hold a legit trial. Trump thinks he knows everything, but since he wants to run the show, maybe he can't out think Nancy. I'll accept what Nancy thinks,l but IMO we're not going to get much more from any witnesses, unless they can get the Ukraine guy.

As for the Repubs, they'll probably present Rudy's "report" as evidence of wrongdoing by the Bidens as a substitute for actual witnesses. But, Trump's getting his ass impeached tomorrow. We'll see what the House does with that.

"Wait until the next president and vice president are sworn in, and then send the House vote to the Senate." We can't assume that there actually will be another president. If that happens, there won't be another VP. And there won't be any record of what happened. And, if we don't take the Senate, how do we know that the Senate would accept the Impeachment at that point, anyway?

Trump will not be removed regardless of whether Pelosi sends this impeachment to trial in the Senate.

The House can continue to investigate regardless of whether Pelosi sends this impeachment to trial in the Senate.

By all means let the Senate Republicans tar themselves with the orange stench of Trump's lawless corruption and moral depravity by shamelessly conducting a sham trial.

It will stick to them for a long time. Let them fully embrace and forever be associated with this treasonous monster.

"We will have to engage in this endless war of noise." In doing so, the Dems will be able top tar the R's with Trump again and again and again.

45 does not have the power to make everyone forget or to rewrite history. He can do that for his brainless base, but they are a minority.

Russian Channel One playbook.

Here's how it can be done. It's a good read, especially halfway through, when the "owner" of Russia's Channel One explains how they mass shape a people's 'reality.'

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/12/16/the-kremlins-creative-director

It's already revved up here and will be completely established by Nov 2020. From then on, we'll be in a sisyphean uphill fight from Constitution to living room TV.