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getagrip_already

(14,828 posts)
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 12:00 PM Dec 2019

Can trump be pardoned now that he had been impeached?

Robert Reich and others are posting that because of the phrase in the constitution that reads "except in the case of impeachment", he can no longer be pardoned.

I never read that clause that way, so im curious what others think.

Does that clause in his pardon powers mean he cant be pardoned?

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Can trump be pardoned now that he had been impeached? (Original Post) getagrip_already Dec 2019 OP
No. Reich has it wrong. All that clause means is The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2019 #1
This is correct. I would add.... lastlib Dec 2019 #10
He can't pardon himself, nor could a subsequent president pardon his impeachment. Shrike47 Dec 2019 #2
president Genocide Barbie Ivanka (God FORBID!) couln't erase Daddy's impeachment w/ a pardon. lastlib Dec 2019 #9
If Pence replaced him then Pence could preemptively pardon Trump for crimes not yet charged... hedda_foil Dec 2019 #3
iirc a pardon of crimes not yet charged, has never been challenged in court eShirl Dec 2019 #6
President Ford's pardon of Nixon was challenged in Michigan court Otto Lidenbrock Dec 2019 #8
My Government teacher was wrong exboyfil Dec 2019 #11
Which is a pretty stupid law, IMO malthaussen Dec 2019 #12
He cant pardon future crimes.... getagrip_already Dec 2019 #14
You're correct. hedda_foil Dec 2019 #15
Doesn't a person have to be convicted first? Srkdqltr Dec 2019 #4
No... getagrip_already Dec 2019 #7
There seems to be some dispute Bev54 Dec 2019 #5
Text seems pretty clear. malthaussen Dec 2019 #13

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,831 posts)
1. No. Reich has it wrong. All that clause means is
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 12:05 PM
Dec 2019

that an impeachment can't be undone by a pardon. Pardons are used to relieve the pardonee of the burden of a criminal conviction, which impeachment is not.

lastlib

(23,276 posts)
10. This is correct. I would add....
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 12:46 PM
Dec 2019

The Senate has the power, upon conviction on impeachment, to disqualify the impeachee (I hope that's a word...if not, I just invented one) from holding any office in the future. The capacity to pardon for an impeachment would effectively neuter that power, and that was emphatically NOT in the Framers' intention.

Shrike47

(6,913 posts)
2. He can't pardon himself, nor could a subsequent president pardon his impeachment.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 12:07 PM
Dec 2019

In other words, President Pence couldn’t pardon Trump’s impeachment.

lastlib

(23,276 posts)
9. president Genocide Barbie Ivanka (God FORBID!) couln't erase Daddy's impeachment w/ a pardon.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 12:41 PM
Dec 2019

eom

hedda_foil

(16,375 posts)
3. If Pence replaced him then Pence could preemptively pardon Trump for crimes not yet charged...
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 12:16 PM
Dec 2019

That's what Ford did for Nixon. Although I didn't realize it then, the pardon was obviously the price the Republicans paid for getting him to resign quietly instead of fighting it out any further. I have absolutely no doubt that Trump would demand the same quid pro quo and a significant financial payoff (like all government personnel being pushed to stay at Trump hotels) and even then, I can't see him quitting.

Otto Lidenbrock

(581 posts)
8. President Ford's pardon of Nixon was challenged in Michigan court
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 12:31 PM
Dec 2019
https://www.lexisnexis.com/community/casebrief/p/casebrief-murphy-v-ford

The leading Supreme Court case is Ex parte Garland (1867). Justice Stephen J. Field, writing for the Court in a 5-4 decision, held that the President's pardoning power is ''unlimited,'' and ''It extends to every offense known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment.''

In Murphy v. Ford (1975), a Federal District Court in Michigan rejected a suit for a declaratory judgment that President Ford's unconditional pardon of Richard M. Nixon was unconstitutional. The court found that the President had the constitutional power to grant a pre-indictment pardon, citing Ex parte Garland in its support.


https://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/05/opinion/l-constitution-allows-pardons-before-conviction-590688.html

exboyfil

(17,865 posts)
11. My Government teacher was wrong
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 12:50 PM
Dec 2019

In 1980 when he said that Ford could not issue a pre-indictment pardon. It really is an insane power granted by the Founding Fathers.

malthaussen

(17,216 posts)
12. Which is a pretty stupid law, IMO
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 12:51 PM
Dec 2019

But it's hardly the only stupid law (or precedent) around.

Reminds me of the bishops granting full forgiveness before battle, so that no one will die unshriven.

-- Mal

getagrip_already

(14,828 posts)
14. He cant pardon future crimes....
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 01:13 PM
Dec 2019

Only those that occured before the pardon.

We dont issue carte blanche letters.

getagrip_already

(14,828 posts)
7. No...
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 12:24 PM
Dec 2019

Nixon was never charged.... But he was pardoned by ford premptively. A president has broad pardon powers at the federal level; about the only crimes thet cant pardon are future crimes.

But he wasnt impeached either; no full house vote had been taken.

Bev54

(10,070 posts)
5. There seems to be some dispute
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 12:19 PM
Dec 2019

Some experts say it does mean he can no longer be pardoned and others don't, so it is not so cut and dry. Not sure who to listen to but I will go with what the constitution experts say.

malthaussen

(17,216 posts)
13. Text seems pretty clear.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 12:53 PM
Dec 2019

Impeachment can't be pardoned. Being impeached does not, however, disallow pardons for other crimes, notional or otherwise.

-- Mal

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