on the overwhelming majority of Evangelicals.

"this is a left wing publication."

Then, libs this, libs that, just hate him, kept his promises, etc.

And that black Evangelicals believed there was a great deal

They spent several issues trying to break through whites' refusal to listen or see what was/is going on. Even had noted Evangelical scholars trying to break though

So far as I recall, the series ended with little or no effect on the attitude of white readers

Has there been a major Catholic publication breaking with Trump? Is discrimination been addressed with the Pope?

although some individual rightwing orgs that claim to be Catholic are.

The Catholic Church, from Pope Francis on down, stands firmly on the side of refugees, and on the side of the poor.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/13/pope-associates-criticize-american-evangelicals-extremism

Pope Francis has compared U.S. President Donald Trump to the murderous King Herod who massacred innocent children in ancient Palestine while trying to kill the baby Jesus, a Jesuit journal revealed Thursday.

Speaking with his brother Jesuits during his recent visit to Thailand, the Argentinian pope minced no words in his thinly veiled condemnation of the U.S. president and his administration, suggesting that like a modern-day Herod, Mr. Trump separates families at the border while allowing drugs to freely flow into the country.

than evangelicals, and also less likely than Protestants who are not evangelicals.

ON EDIT: If your relatives are serious Catholics, maybe they need to be educated about what Pope Francis has had to say about Trump's policies.

Follow Limbaugh or The Pope-it can't be both! I can not change their minds and have avoided confrontation (and many family events). It is very sad. This from a Catholic kid growing up in the 60's in a very Jesus-centric, charitable, loving, caring, help-thy-fellow-man belief structure. It feels, and is, so obviously wrong.

And they're programmed to respond just like that. It's as natural for them as breathing. It's completely emotional, not cognitive. Two of my sibs are exactly the same. The programming took with them in childhood. It didn't with my brother and I.

How do people like us see it all for the absurd nonsense it is, and so many others just eat it up like popcorn?

that functions like it should. They have a hive mentality.

not even close.

is to read Matthew chapters 5-7.

Read it for the message, and then tell me that message is not left-wing as we understand it here.

let’s choose what suit us best today from the bible and quote it, searching for any meaning in it. Left wing is secularism, which means extermination of any religious references from any even remotely governmental entities and all their contractors. While left wing is nominally more humane, both extremes of political spectrum are illiberal in nature and each can lead to dire consequences. Moderation is the key when it comes to religion, much like alcohol.
We should all applaud this magazine for its stance because I bet it is more effective against trump than echo chambers.

was just how left-wing Christianity is. So very many scriptures throughout both the old and new testaments about justice and mercy, treating the immigrant well, visiting those in prison, the sick, the stranger, raising up those bowed low, God being on the side of the oppressed, letting "justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!"

From media portrayals, I was sure that Christianity was a narrow-minded, judgmental religion. The last thing I ever expected to be was a Christian. To my surprise I found joy, laughter, love, and generosity.

Most FB Christians are not actually real people but bots. Some just programed into denial.

Definitely programed ...

it's not having much of an effect really only applies to white evangelicals? I note that AA and Hispanic evangelicals generally take their New Testament seriously.

never supported Trump in the first place, I would say no, it's not having much of an effect on them. Most Evangelicals have the same opinion after this was published as they did before.

besmirching the name/religion of the non-whites.......plus ca change, plus de la meme chose

because that name got such a bad reputation. Now, the name Evangelical is going to be associated with Donald J. Trump forevermore. It's unfortunate for the minority of Evangelicals who are decent people, but it's a fact. Time to change the church signs. A church in a neighboring town has seen the writing on the wall. They used to be called the Evangelical Congregational Church of [town]. No longer. Now they're the [town] Congregational Church.

the evangelicals finally found religion after three or four years???????

Most of them still only listen to Trump smut 24/7/365

They are easy marks for Trump's cult, a true nation of sheep.......

They surpassed the Scientologists long long ago......

really can't be said to represent "the Evangelicals".

Not some big wave, but little annoying drops of water.

It will "give permission" to many Christians that voted for Trump to reconsider. But quietly, they above all people, know not to admit they are starting to question the subservience to such an immoral immature cretin. They don't call it a flock for nothing. One sheep starts looking over the fence to the open fields and starts questioning if the loud abusive orange shepherd in charge of them is telling the truth about how their little over-grazed plot of land is the best plot in the world, and he is the best shepherd ever, and then one more sheep may wander over too

this is not the kind of thing where people will read it & suddenly see the light! But it is something that makes many good arguments. Even if people don't want to agree with it now, they will still think about it for awhile, maybe for a long time.

At this point, I don't think we can really judge what kind of effect it has. I think it may have had an effect on people who are already questioning things. But many more are likely to consider the arguments over time. The only question I have is whether enough of them will see the light before November, 2020!

Season's greetings!

but with a little time I think they will!

Happy holidays to you too!

Peel them off as we can.

CT is simply a voice crying in the wilderness. It's a small crack, but far from a chasm. There's far more to the evangelical attachment to IQ45 than we see on the surface and CT is simply stating the problem, not the root cause.

Do you think this piece would have been published if he hadn't already been planning to leave?

Back to normal next month. Trump will probably claim the editor quit because of the pressure Trump applied

I expect either some editors will be removed from their position before the election heats up or they will get a lot quieter. While it is gratifying that some right wing Christian are recognizing the problems with Trump it's unlikely they can stick with it in the face of the White House and Trumpian Christians.

And even if they continue having turned on Trump they will still be very right wing.

Bryant

current editorial position helps to undermine support for Trump, good. But they will still embrace anti abortion and anti civil and human rights views. They will still vote for RWers who support their views. They will still try to impose their religion on everyone.

They are only cutting ties with Trump now because they perceive it to be expedient after the impeachment. They would support.Jordan, Collins, McConnell, or Pence easily if any of them ran for president. The dishonesty of those characters in defending and supporting Trump would not matter a bit to them.

They are just covering their butts right now while waiting for the next.RW extremist to replace Trump as their new ruler.

They are far too politicized now to be anything else.

"He is a symptom of a sickness that began before him, which is the hyper-politicization of the American church. This is a danger for all of us, wherever we fall on the political spectrum."

Emphasis added

Also, the list of sharply politicized subjects seems . . . endless . . .

this shit did not start with him ...

They were headed this way, but even 10 years ago they would not have embraced this POS like they have.

But, the whole operation is so far down the rat hole now, there is no coming back.

...Ronald fucking Raygun*.

I'll send them thoughts and prayers, and a little extra to ACLU in their name.

I suspect they feel the same way about the prosperity gospel charlatans as they feel about 45. I’m an atheist but it seems as though Galli and CT are practicing what they preach and embodying actual Christian ideals.

Too little, way too late. They should have been denouncing Trump years ago.

Are there to get rid of abortion. The time to speak up was the last election.

Why am I not surprised?

Yet it does feel a bit too little and a bit too late.

Still, if this is another crack in Trump’s foundation, I’m all for it.

Earlier in my life, I was a practicing Christian and I did a significant amount of study of the Bible and Christian history. Through my active participation in the churches I attended, I met, interacted with and got to know a wide range of church folk. Ultimately, what I learned brought me to atheism!

Few Christians, in my experience, follow Jesus ‘ teachings. Generally, their knowledge of their faith is simplistic and rooted in ignorance. Evangelicals and Prosperity Christians are, by far, the worst but the hypocrisy is overwhelming.

Sorry for venting during these holidays! Hope yours are wonderful and fun, lonepirate.

it is long overdue. This is an unexpected and encouraging development, and it will have an impact on that segment of protestant Christianity that isn't radicalized (which is still substantial). CT is providing those Christians with the cover to dissent, or at least to question their political leanings.

There is a glimmer of hope here that mainstream Christianity can begin extricating itself from the right wing political radicalism that emerged in the 70s and 80s thanks to Schaeffer, Falwell, etc. This development should be welcomed. CT is going to be under tremendous pressure to get back in line. Let's hope CT can hold their ground.

then this changes nothing. They are still unreachable.

Last edited Mon Dec 23, 2019, 12:46 PM - Edit history (1)

Are they really claiming that at this point ?

of the Ten Commandments???? I think not.........

Next he will be bragging that he is the first person to ever violate every one of the Ten Commandments......

"..It is one thing to praise his accomplishments..."

Fuck that ----WHAT accomplishments?




these are still ignorant, selfish right wing assholes...

Every time he brags/lies about "getting more done than any president in history" I want to barf! I loved it when he said that at the United Nations and they all laughed at him!

as "extravagantly immoral", I have no use for them. They, including whoever wrote what is in the OP are the problem, not the solution.

Since so many Christians appear to worship SATAN / TRUMP.

Trump thinks the poor are to be robbed. Nothing more.

I grew up in a progressive, Protestant household. I once asked my father if he considered himself a Christian. He replied "I am trying to be a Christian". And then he noted "By his works shall ye know him".

These white evangelicals are no more Christian than Satan himself (not that I believe in Satan, or in God for that matter). If they refuse to follow the teachings of the one whose name they constantly invoke, then I have no use for them. And it doesn't matter what religion you profess to be; the one constant in all religions is the Golden Rule. They've thrown that out with the dishwater.

But only within their own set of people. Does not apply to outsiders in their narrow minds.

Now they can pretend they have any other standards than controlling women's bodily autonomy. Fucking pious hypocrites.

in fact, they'd be dancing in the streets over a President Pence.

This.

.

He was not a Christian. Christianity is a made up religion years after Christ. Christ would not be doing good works for Christians because he was a Jew.

Christianity Today only has a readership of 130k people.

Are they paid subscriptions or do they dump bundles of them in laundromats and hospital waiting rooms?

81% of white Evangelicals voted for Trump in 2016. I expect a similar number will do so in 2020. Almost no non-white Evangelicals ever supported Trump, so this won't have any effect on them, either.

I saw them as they are early on when they refused to heed Trump's past and wouldn't even research his past for whatever reason(probably because they knew or suspected it wouldn't fit their opinion). I think most have knowingly spread falsehoods or kept quiet when others did. They stand for nothing when they ignore the children at the border living in horrid conditions, completely innocent children dying. It seems they are punishing them. I never thought evangelicals would lose their moral focus but a morally corrupt, cruel, lying man (openly I might add) has managed to make them look totally fake.

People are turned off by their deplorable hypocrisy. Galli's editorial recognizes the taint of Trump on his faith.

Couldn't happen to a nicer religion. Unless it happened to all religions.

I'm happy to see them showing themselves for what they really are and, by so doing, driving people away. For good reason.

They are saying that Christianity Today is wrong. Someone on Morning Joe said the reason they are against what CT said is "the money changers have issues with it they would be exposed, this is about money".

Was praise for that a swipe at LGBT?

This guy editorializing should have outlined, detailed the many egregious acts and behavior of *ump. Did he? I will not read the article.

what do you know. only when the tide is turning against them. opportunists. and Trump has no accomplishments. Only eviscerating civilized society for vivisection by corporate cronies, which harmed everyone but the annointed.

This contrition is like the Pilgrims making peace with native Americans after killing half of them and stealing their land.

Christianity is a misused tool of conquer and exploitation, and if you believe their coverup you really are stupid.

What are they, why is it that this administration is so modest that we don't know about them?

What a bunch of bull! You, evangelicals, are a bunch of low-lives like trump, your only motivation is greed, the mighty dollar, and after showing the world you have no principles, no morals, and people are running away from you, now you are trying to get out of the hole you put yourselves in.

Evangelicals, you are a bunch of hypocrites! You have seen your numbers go down, and that to you means less money, so you are being forced to make corrections to try to bring those people back, but I don't believe a word you say.

I can picture the evangelical leaders getting together to discuss the business miscalculation they made by supporting the creature and how it is hurting the bottom line, donors are leaving, people are resigning, no new members are signing and if it continues we could go into bankruptcy, we have to do something about it, we must disassociate from trump...etc., etc. Evangelicals turned their heads the other way and refused to protect the families, the children this administration separated and incarcerated, you are as guilty as the administration for these atrocities, but now you want to pretend to be holly? Fuck you evangelicals!

... and fetuses.
As long as they get that, they'll crow about accomplishments.

If it peels off 1% of Evangelicals it’s a huge deal.

There won’t be some huge tidal wave. It will be a steady trickle. And that’s what is needed.

They don't want to stop there! They want to BE Caesar! And not in a democratic way!

Uncovering the ugly collusion of greedy politics and fundamentalist cult religions is long overdue.
They have wrought too much damage, divided families, rendered those deemed "unworthy" by some religious yardstick homeless (I'm in that scarlet letter club not because I'm gay, but because I'm honest with myself and others that I'm gay) and reaped magnanimous profiteering schemes around producing fear.

God evolved us into this time/space with an oversized cerebrum, opposable digits to manipulate the world around us, and the choice is up to us, do we exclude groups from resources or care for everyone as Jesus taught?
This calls for seriously creative use of that cerebral matter in the face of our troubles now
That, dammit, no one in biblical times foresaw! "Be fruitful and multiply"... no longer applicable.

https://www.overshootday.org/

Just look at the reaction to it. This publication is very much the exception that proves the rule.

Actually, no, that's why you have tax free status.

No questioning that these attitudes/stances might be intertwined with Trump's general anti Christian adultery

And what about Evangelical support of Trump's blatantly anti-Christian treatment of immigrant children?

I've followed evangelicalism all my life. I was raised in it. Part of my family is still trapped in its evil clutches. But I've never seen their leaders so attached to one political figure. Ever. Not even Reagan. Never mind the rank and file. They do whatever their "spiritual" leaders tell them to do. That's simply how fundigelical religion works. Trust me. They're simply automatons awaiting their instructions every Sunday morning.

Until now, it's always been about the issues with them. Nutty positions on issues, but issues nonetheless. If a Republican figured showed any good sense or even the semblance of a heart on certain issues, they trashed them immediately. The litmus test of positions on issues was all that mattered. Not anymore. IQ45 could literally kill people on national TV and evilgelical leaders would support him without batting an eye. What changed I wonder?

The only thing I can figure is Russians are doing the same thing to American fundamentalists as they did to the Russian Orthodox Church. The promise of elevating their position in an increasingly secular society and sharing a bit of power in order to use them in advancing the will of the new order. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find Franklin Graham and all the rest up to their eyeballs in oligarch money and promises just as much as IQ45. Remember, you heard it here first.

The Russian Orthodox Church is also deep inside the Russian Military Industry. They are trying to stop a morale problem in Russia’s military using Religion.

There is great commonality there between the evangelicals.

I view this as an attempt to mitigate the eventual backlash. One shouldn’t need praise to defend the absolute basic tenets of one’s beliefs. They are hacks and still promote the idea they know the mind of God.

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it."

(fixed it for ya! )

It needed your help to complete.

and against any help for poor people, but we're willing to draw the line at this giant orange piece of garbage's abuse of power.

Because it makes them look bad.

If it makes some of them vote against him or not vote, then it is good, but I do not mistake these people for being even nominally on our side in any way.

Nor do I see them as good people as they still laud his "accomplishments", which I'm assuming are tax cuts for the very wealthy, enacting anti-woman/LGBT/immigrant policies, and putting small children in cages.

so don't be bitchin' about the fleas!

and disappointing.

I guess if you can rationalize the make believe contained in the Buybull as being factual truth, you can rationalize any other fantasy you care to embrace and regard that as truth.

These CT articles reek of fear - fear of losing power and standing in society...a standing based on make believe, fear mongering and self loathing (don’t get me started on the routine child abuse that occurs throughout Xianity in the form of religious indoctrination from an early age).

Disgusting.

May they destroy themselves in the coming evangelical civil war.

They can blame Trump.

We’re so sorry that your experiment hasn’t quite turned out the way you had hoped. Yes, you got your federal judges. And abortions are illegal in many corners.

But — now that the monster’s daily rampages are upsetting you, and the village elders have voted to impeach him — the blood of the innocent victims is on your hands as well as IMPOTUS’s.

This will probably not end well for either of you. If you’ll excuse us, we have to sharpen our pitchforks and gather torches.

/s/ The Village

Evangelicals are giving atheism a real boost!

Thanks!

The excellent article points to the "difficult" choice of the 2016 election. They could follow the lead of Jehovah's Witnesses and not vote. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that voting would be an endorsement of a system that is not governed by God. Thus they look to the time when God's Kingdom begins on earth.

Nevertheless, this is one of the best articles I've read regarding the situation of trying to be a true Christian-- and witnessing to a non-believing world--and struggling with the nastiness of the world we all face.

Get back to me when they put their words into action.

away a whole generation, mainly because of their hypocrisy in continuing to support one of the worse people ever to be president:

“we feel compelled to say that the alliance of American evangelicalism with this presidency has wrought enormous damage to Christian witness”

Oh, the right-wing may have the 28% crazification factor, but we're likely to see polls going forward dropping from 40-something-% support for Trump down closer to that 28%.

At least that's the hope. Peel away the folks that don't pay very much attention, that see Trump as merely a mild jerk instead of the fascist psycho he is. When they see that Trump's involved in more and more criminal bullshit, you'll see more of them pull a Steve Schmidt.

Don't fall for it.

They've had four years of standing by silently as their radical evangelical wing has bought into this crazy bastard and his hypocritical bull shit. They can't even convince their own flock back. We all know how stubbornly ignorant the cult is, and you aren't going to persuade them with some newspaper that they most likely don't even read or care about.

all these Trump humpers insisting they see a great leader and along comes on of their own who says, this man is a CRIMINAL

A sensible message.

& something I've been thinking for a long time! If you fail to stand up for your own values just because you're getting something you want, the assumption is that you accept all of the rest of the things this criminal is doing. And if you still refuse to speak up, you don't have any values anymore! At this point they don't have any values anymore & there's not much reason for anyone to believe that they do, if they're so unwilling to stand up for their values when it becomes difficult to do. It's not hard to protect values when it's easy but when you do it when it's difficult, that's how you show your true character.

For a long time christians have been asking what would Jesus do? Which means if you have a difficult decision to make they should ask what would Jesus do if he were confronted in a similar situation. It's time for them to ask that question now!! I doubt if he would sit silently by while all the rest of his values were being trampled on.

I am not interested in making peace with them. I hold them responsible for the downfall of the American empire.

Fuck them all.

Must be getting worried about their income now.

Piss on the hate-mongering terrorists.

They chose to burn down their churches by voting for “an extravagantly immoral candidate”?

or vote for an extravagantly immoral candidate who could well damage the standing of the republic and the witness of the church.

They gave up all their high ground ...

Gonna leave it at that ...