Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

MineralMan

(146,324 posts)
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 01:10 PM Jan 2020

There are a few senior journalists who have a store of information

from the past. They draw on that to clarify things in their reporting. Their numbers are decreasing though. Younger journalists, honorable as they might be, do not have the memory of a lot of things those older journalists have. Here's an example:

Right now, Trump is crowing about the Obama administration "giving" Iran piles of money. Those of us with strong memories of that remember that what we did was release Iran's money that we had sequestered. It was always Iran's money. We didn't give them any taxpayer dollars. We just returned their money.

That's a very important fact when reporting what Trump is claiming. Every news story should include the facts I mentioned above. Many news stories do not include that information, so Trump's statements go without correction. Older journalists remember the truth and can quickly look up evidence of that truth, because they know to look it up. Younger journalists might not even know the facts, and so would not have any basis on which to question Trump's statement.

There is something to be said for experience and memory. Sometimes we forget that as we criticize our new, younger journalists for not clarifying things as they should. If you don't remember facts from the past, you don't know to look them up to clarify your reporting.

So, when you see older, sometimes doddering journalists on TV, remember that they have long backgrounds and memories of facts younger journalists don't necessarily have. So, listen. They might have something to say you need to hear.

28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
There are a few senior journalists who have a store of information (Original Post) MineralMan Jan 2020 OP
Relevant to something going on in the small town where I live Mike 03 Jan 2020 #1
Good example. Even though the information is available, MineralMan Jan 2020 #2
Yep. Given current events, I was trying to track down some things from the Vincennes incident... JHB Jan 2020 #5
1988 was last century. MineralMan Jan 2020 #6
I agree. A lot of the rationale and why things got done the way they did back then aren't really... SWBTATTReg Jan 2020 #7
To build on that, sometimes it's not "piles", it's "pallets"... JHB Jan 2020 #3
Thanks for the post. Wellstone ruled Jan 2020 #4
Another example that is constantly thrown out by republicans Bev54 Jan 2020 #8
And wasn't a chunk of that money stolen from Iran originally by that old crook, the Shah? BigDemVoter Jan 2020 #9
Yeah, probably, but that was in the last century, so nobody cares. MineralMan Jan 2020 #10
1953: U.S. organized coup removes Mosaddeq rickyhall Jan 2020 #22
Wasn't the return of the money like ... 5 years ago? mr_lebowski Jan 2020 #11
It's a longer story than that. MineralMan Jan 2020 #12
Institutional memory... 2naSalit Jan 2020 #13
It's all propaganda and brain-washing of simple minds. CaptYossarian Jan 2020 #14
Yes 3sam3 Jan 2020 #15
Younger journalists need to do more research Mickju Jan 2020 #16
research? history? was dat? :))) pangaia Jan 2020 #18
Yes. And some try hard to do that. MineralMan Jan 2020 #19
Maybe most younger journalists are not journalists, just failed writers. pangaia Jan 2020 #17
Oh there's some of that, of course. There always has been. MineralMan Jan 2020 #20
I would think they would look into and verify or more likely not verify virtually everything KPN Jan 2020 #21
Also ... GeorgeGist Jan 2020 #23
Or English. There must be some use for a degree in English, after all... MineralMan Jan 2020 #25
And journalists, regardless of age, need to be able to push back against bullwinkle428 Jan 2020 #24
I don't trust Scarborough for a second. MineralMan Jan 2020 #26
at this stage, with the plethora stillcool Jan 2020 #27
News media is not the only corporate entity disposing of inconvenient institutional memory. hunter Jan 2020 #28

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
1. Relevant to something going on in the small town where I live
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 01:17 PM
Jan 2020

We have a minor scandal involving a new mayor who is digging around into old deals made by prior administrations ten or more years ago, and our local paper has reactivated a semi-retired reporter/editor to help cover these controversies because of his vast, intricate knowledge of those particular deals.

MineralMan

(146,324 posts)
2. Good example. Even though the information is available,
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 01:23 PM
Jan 2020

if you don't know what to look for, you might never find it. That's especially true for things that happened before the Internet cataloged and stored everything that happens. Even if the information exists on the Internet, unless you know what you're looking for, based on your own memories and experience, you probably won't find it.

There's a new youth culture in the media that has pushed a lot of senior journalists out. They were highly paid, typically, so that makes some sense in today's money-starved news media. But, there is a great loss of people who have decades of knowledge stored in their minds. We need to remember that.

Certainly, the typical member of the public doesn't keep track of news stories from decades or even just a few years ago. We're really not that interested, mostly. That lets people say things that are not true, often without anyone checking on what they say against what they already know.

It's a shame, really.

JHB

(37,161 posts)
5. Yep. Given current events, I was trying to track down some things from the Vincennes incident...
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 01:53 PM
Jan 2020

...when the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian airliner in 1988.

The part I wanted to document wasn't the incident itself but the conspiracy theories conservative Republicans started spinning: That the Iranian government loaded up a plane with dead bodies, that the plane had been modified in a way that would show up as an F-14 on US radars, etc., all to put the blame on Iran and pretend nobody on that ship did anything wrong. And these weren't street-corner crackpots, these were "respectable" Republicans and were treated as such.

Sainted Ronald Reagan played footsie with these people rather than just come out and say there had been a terrible accident.

I'm sure some articles that covered that part were digitized, but finding the magic search term to bring them to the top is in needle-in-field-of-haystacks territory.

Not to mention material that wasn't digitized. Or even stuff that was, but was stored in long-ago defunct places (dial-up BBSes, early websites, etc.).

Heaven help you if you float the term "microfiche", you'll get a look like you're trying to grind grain with a windmill.

MineralMan

(146,324 posts)
6. 1988 was last century.
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 01:56 PM
Jan 2020

Pre-Internet, too. Nobody except us oldsters remembers anything from that long ago. Even fewer care.

SWBTATTReg

(22,156 posts)
7. I agree. A lot of the rationale and why things got done the way they did back then aren't really...
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 02:38 PM
Jan 2020

out there, or if they are, it's just a little snapshot of the whole story. Like you said, it's the interest factor that drives why things get remembered or not. Fortunately, there are lots of people out there taking advantage of the capabilities of the Internet to document these stories, add to them, edit them, etc. so as to preserve for the future these stories.

JHB

(37,161 posts)
3. To build on that, sometimes it's not "piles", it's "pallets"...
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 01:29 PM
Jan 2020

...and that should never be left to stand uncorrected.

Billions of dollars in US cash bundled and packed up on cargo pallets were indeed sent to th Middle East, but...

It didn't have a goddamn thing to do with Iran, and Obama didn't have a goddamn thing to do with it.

This money was sent by George W. Bush's administration to Iraq. The idea (or maybe pretense) was to be able to pay local subcontractors in cash, and plenty was needed for that.

In reality? It was like everything else the Bush administration did: sloppy, half-assed, and left plenty of room for corruption. Plenty of that money just disappeared, and accounting was beyond inadequate. No telling which fingers it stuck to or where it ended up. Some of it may even have ended up with the people who became ISIS.

But Republicans are tireless in deflecting, so they try to use it against Obama.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
4. Thanks for the post.
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 01:42 PM
Jan 2020

You are the first to post the truth.

Believe part of this had to do with our Courts ruling that the Embargoed Money from the Reagan years had to be returned.

Bev54

(10,066 posts)
8. Another example that is constantly thrown out by republicans
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 02:42 PM
Jan 2020

Is that Obama drew a red line on chemical use in Syria and Trump and other republicans claim that when Assad used chemical weapons Obama did nothing. Obama was actually told by congress he could not bomb Syria without congressional approval so Obama made his case to congress and they turned him down. It is all bullshit they are peddling.

BigDemVoter

(4,154 posts)
9. And wasn't a chunk of that money stolen from Iran originally by that old crook, the Shah?
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 02:44 PM
Jan 2020

And didn't he drop $1 billion on a coronation for himself and his wife, Farah, as Shah and Empress of Iran?

And didn't the USA have "something" to do with him becoming Shah in the first place despite his secret police and other extrajudicial activities?

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
11. Wasn't the return of the money like ... 5 years ago?
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 03:02 PM
Jan 2020

Your point is well taken but not sure this is the best example of the point is all.

ANY (one who claims to be a) journalist writing a story on Trump's claims of how the US (under Obama) 'gave Iran Billions' should have the relevant facts in their memory banks, and obviously should report those facts along with IQ45's attempt at deception. If not they should be able to take 5 mins to Google it ... I'd guess Snopes has a debunking at one's fingertips.

If they don't it's not cause they're too young, it's ... other reasons.

Just sayin'

MineralMan

(146,324 posts)
12. It's a longer story than that.
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 03:06 PM
Jan 2020

Here's an article that runs it all down for you:

https://fortune.com/2016/08/05/money-america-iran/

Some are confusing this with a payment sent to Iraq a long time ago. See how confusing it can be?

2naSalit

(86,742 posts)
13. Institutional memory...
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 03:18 PM
Jan 2020

it's what we lose when the seasoned participants are replaced by something/someone with less experience.

CaptYossarian

(6,448 posts)
14. It's all propaganda and brain-washing of simple minds.
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 03:18 PM
Jan 2020

Soon, they'll be convinced that nothing existed before the Age of Trump. Their new god is the creator, is the omnipotent one who will lead all humankind.

Just as these nimrods believe Jesus rode a dinosaur.

 

3sam3

(19 posts)
15. Yes
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 03:30 PM
Jan 2020

That's why I appreciate Charlie Pierce so, so much. His commentary almost always includes historical background. His weekend dispatches for folks that are donating to his web page are really great history/civics lessons.

MineralMan

(146,324 posts)
19. Yes. And some try hard to do that.
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 03:37 PM
Jan 2020

But, there is a lot of history to study. They'll get better as time passes, but then they'll be the old journalists.

MineralMan

(146,324 posts)
20. Oh there's some of that, of course. There always has been.
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 03:39 PM
Jan 2020

However, there are some very smart young journalists working. It takes time, though, to build up a knowledge of relevant history. You don't know what you need to know until you need to know it a lot of times.

MSNBC calls in experienced journalists a lot and that's good. But, then, Fox News has no journalists at all, so that's bad.

KPN

(15,647 posts)
21. I would think they would look into and verify or more likely not verify virtually everything
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 04:00 PM
Jan 2020

that comes out of tRump’s mouth. Haven’t they seen enough evidence to question everything he or his administration says already? Age, experience and memory of years past is no excuse. That’s not to negate in any way the value of long-timers and the institutional memory they bring to the table. No question about their value and our loss in that regard.

bullwinkle428

(20,629 posts)
24. And journalists, regardless of age, need to be able to push back against
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 04:50 PM
Jan 2020

the spin-masters who try to "hold court" on these shows.

Example du jour : Today on "Morning Joe", Scarborough CONTINUED to push the idea of "Obama retreating from Iraq in 2011". Every thinking person knows damn well that the withdrawal of troops was completely based on the Status of Forces Agreement, signed by BUSHCO. They did not want American service personnel subject to Sharia Law in Iraq, and the Iraqi gov't. disagreed, leading to the decision to pull out the troops.

SO STOP WITH THE "RETREAT" BULLSHIT, SCAR!!!

stillcool

(32,626 posts)
27. at this stage, with the plethora
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 05:23 PM
Jan 2020

of Trump's lies, I would think they would assume any statements to be false, and go from there. The people on the television, get a story, and present it the way they want the viewer to see it. And the stories they choose to tell, are chosen for a reason. As are the guests they invite to share their 'expertise'. I do wish there were some laws that prevented people from lying, or at least admonished them. But instead, the lies are repeated until they become factual in the minds of those that consume that garbage all day, every day. Of course, if someone lets the truth slip out about the wrong person, they're out of a job.

hunter

(38,322 posts)
28. News media is not the only corporate entity disposing of inconvenient institutional memory.
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 05:57 PM
Jan 2020

The same thing happened at Boeing, leading to the deadly 737 crashes.

The same thing has happened in the petrochemical industry, pharmaceuticals, etc., with deadly consequences.


Latest Discussions»General Discussion»There are a few senior jo...