I do not understand being full vegan. If you want that life choice, go for it, but don't belittle anyone else for "JUST" being a vegetarian. Not saying that everyone does.

knuckle-dragin' repug, but that is just me.
Why must any of our choices be dissed? As much as I abhor the killing of animals, I will not talk badly of people who eat deer or other wild game. I won't discuss it or look at it in any form, but I will not say they are bad people.

And this isn't the first time brooklynite posted this kind of bait before always lead to vegan bashing. No one was bashing your choices as you were the first person in this thread.

Trashing thread. I prefer to discuss these issues at the animal rights forum at DU.

in this thread. There are infinitely more important issues in my life.

Glad Im not the only one.

If they serve me meat I will refuse it, but politely. I'm not on a mission to convert anyone to vegetarianism or veganism, I just won't eat that (meat) shit.

It's the obnoxious preachiness that so many vegetarians, especially vegans, exhibit that bothers me.

Not every vegetarian/vegan is that way but it's the ones who are that seem to leave the biggest impression on people.

Who is anyone trying to impress with their diet?

I've known more than a few kids who loudly proclaim their virtue and the fact that as if yesterdat they're opposing their out-of-touch parents. And then try to get other kids to jump on the bandwagon.

A month later they're chowing down a burger in the school cafeteria. Now, arguably they could claim there's no real meat in the supposedly meat-based burger, but the optics are bad.

I always find it more convincing when somebody's noticed to be eating vegan but nobody knew for the first 6 months because it was their personal choice, one they didn't profess out on the street corners.

Was gluten free and vegan. I said I don't have a problem with gluten and don't want to pay more for gf.

I'm fine with being an almost-vegetarian, but the family wants poultry.

I had to fast 14 hours, drinking only water.

About two weeks before my blood draw date, one of my brothers gave me a few buffalo wings. As I faster, my body was screaming for buffalo wings, but I couldn't touch them between when my brother gave me some of them and my blood draw because that could throw off my cholesterol. Long story short, I finished the fast, got the blood draw done and then bought some buffalo wings for lunch, my body and mind were overjoyed. I try to pay attention to what my body is calling for because I have learned over time that it typically call for something that it is missing, I apologize to no one for the choices that I make in response to that.

Vegetarianism is alive and well, and shouldn't be diminished by anyone suggesting you have to go "full vegan to show you really care" or whatever that means.

Sort of like saying, "Nice Prius. Would be cool if you just walked everywhere, though."

"Idiot" is rather gentle for whoever said it, though.

If everyone just cut back on meat consumption - "less meat" rather than obligate "meatless" diet - it would make a huge positive impact for all species. Anyone just needs to observe nature a little bit to understand the food chain. One can eat some meat and still strive for relatively cruelty-free sourcing of it. So, one can care and still consume some meat; and certainly one can care about a lot of things, and none of us are pure in every way.

If supporting the human population on the planet would require 100% of us be vegan, than that population number is too high. (it is already anyway, but that's a whole separate, and unpleasant, subject)

But if someone IS a vegan (as I presume you are, from your screen name), GREAT!! That helps cover for the folks who haven't learned the less-meat way yet.

it wasn't easy when the vegetarian option was Jello or Saltine crackers that had lard in them and being thought of as very strange. I might eventually go totally vegan in my own good time but I'm fine with being a ”just" a vegetarian.

The vegetarian option was JELLO? Didn't anyone tell your friends gelatin is boiled cow bones?

that of course you ate chicken and fish, uh no. I know people who eat meat that won't even eat Jello, gag.

There's kosher "jello".

And there are those who simply say, "Look, it's hydrolyzed collagen and it's impossible to tell that it's from pig versus cow." It's still very much not plant. I assume you can rig hydrolyzed vegetable to make it gelatinous, though.

Agar, known as kanten in Japan, is made from seaweed. The texture is a bit different, but it’s very close to gelatin.

that vegetables were often simply not available.

When we first moved from Georgia and tried a southern "family style" restaurant, deep-fried okra was the only vegetable on a loooong, double-column list of sides to go with the meat. I took a picture of it to send back to California. Even that chain has since improved substantially for this era, though.

it was the "best" they could offer. I'm glad there's so much available now, I know it's hard for some to believe how little there used to be for people who didn't eat meat.

There are other plant substitutes for gelatin.

Die anyway.

IMO, virtue signaling is a pernicious neurosis.

More less a vegan. I know some vegans and consider one a friend. But I also work with some really poor people. Not ‘just got my phd and am working as a graduate assistant poor’.

But really poor. Like I can’t hardly pay my rent and feed my 3 kids poor. They are happy to have good food for their family. Happy to have some pork in their beans poor.

As long as I see people discussing vegan vs vegetarian I know we live in a rich fucking country!

Because really poor people eat whatever they can get.

I am constantly amazed at how much vegan food I can buy for such a little money. A pound of black beans is $1.42 and cooks up into a large amount. Three pounds of blueberries for 6.97. Two pounds of brown rice for $1.26.
What is expensive is all the junk processed food that people buy. (Almost) a pound of potato chips for $2.12.

The weight of these processed foods is often made up of salt, sugar, and fat, and any nutrients have been processed out.

Then there are the medical bills that often result from this poor diet.

It is cheaper to be healthy

... you aren't shelling out for potato chips. You're hoping you have enough cornmeal to get a complete dietary set of protein from your beans and cornbread.

People that are pushing "special" diets seem to fail to realize that teaching people the way is better than using criticism to win them over. I was born and raised poor, believe me, if meat was not used in the diet that my parents could afford, I likely would not be here now.

that lots of poor people live in food deserts in many of our major cities.

But I did grow up in the South at a time when food quality was a multi-tiered affair, there was the food that well-off, middle-class and better-off poor bought, and there was the food that poor people bought. I still occasionally see the "discount" food sellers that my parents frequented, places that sold the food from the better markets that had met it's use by or freeze by date. The quality of the food was not tops, but it kept our family alive.

Poor people often don't have the resources to do research on things like nutritional supplements to make up for missing vitamins and proteins from food used in a restrictive diet. Even if they do the research, the cost of those items crashes limited food budgets. So a diet boils down to more meat and processed grains (pasta, white rice, white bread) and if vegetables are served, they came out of a can.

on bread, processed/canned veg, potato flakes, processed meat, and sugar.

I don't know of any food pantries that have vegan or vegetarian "menus" for the food they distribute. You can load up on beans, which is good, but the other choices are hell for a diabetic (rice, potatoes, bread, sugar).

out is exactly what I saw. You can guess that the food that givers give to a food pantry will tend to be less expensive foodstuffs, while it is not great, it keeps people fed and alive (although down the road there are problems with the salt, fat and sugar).

Family in the SW. Down around Magnolia. Where people were honest to god poor before the government started playing a hand. Still are in all honesty.

What part are you from? If you don’t mind me asking.

The cost of special proteins to replace those lost by not eating meat, even higher.

I don't regularly eat "junk" food (though I recently knocked down a batch of buffalo chicken wings), but where I shop, vegetables are no bargin.

Where do you get that idea?

If a person has secure housing they can buy rice and beans in bulk quantities.

Even though I can eat any kind of food I like these days, I always get anxious if I don't have a stash of rice and beans in the cupboard.

At my poorest I had rice, beans, and cheap government subsidized powdered milk. To that I'd add whatever I could scrounge. Hot sauce packets left on the table at Taco Bell were one of my favorites. Living in California, discarded and surplus fruits and vegetables were not difficult to come by. Sometimes I'd get eggs. Meat was a problem because I often didn't have a refrigerator. I'd make my own buttermilk from the powdered milk.

When I was a kid our family lived a year without a refrigerator so I wasn't unfamiliar with a no-refrigerator diet.

A couple of days ago I realized I'd eaten rice and beans for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. For breakfast I had Rice Chex and soy milk. For lunch I had a rice and bean burrito. For dinner I had chickpea masala with rice.

I'm mostly vegetarian to reduce my environmental footprint. My wife is vegetarian approaching vegan.

In my extended family we've got everyone on the spectrum from militant meat eaters to militant vegans. I can cook for them all.

Pork is only cheap if you discount the environmental and ethical costs of factory farms, or if you kill a pig yourself, the hours spent preparing and sharing it.

When there were less than five hundred million people living on earth a diet high in animal protein didn't have the same environmental impacts as it does with seven and a half billion people.

Will mainly be posting on non political subjects till after we have a nominee. Still remember 16 here with dread.

And the whole impeachment thing just gets insane.


Plus the fishing is about to get good.

Realized when I joined my participation here has no effect on the real world. But still love DU.

I actually enjoy DU. With me living in a red county, DU helps a lot, other than my family, I connect with people that have similar values.

Few people talk about Florida as a Democratic state forgetting we voted for President Obama twice. I think with the right candidate we can take it again. If we do, we win the whole enchilada.

We had an African American candidate for governor who mistakenly tied himself to a Democratic Socialist to get the nomination and almost won the governor race(16000 vote difference). In a midterm where we usually underperform.

If we have a candidate who inspires our African American base out to vote I think we win it here.

of votes from a very blue part of Florida were invalidated because the MAGAbomber caused post offices to close and the ballots did not get postmarked by the due date to be counted (our side went to Court, but lost. That is why I in-person early-vote religiously now. I vote as early as possible and I check my registration status weeks before I vote).

Your over on the Nature Coast, correct? The retirees make that area bright red!

The only time I pay attention to people's dietary limitations is when I'm planning a dinner party. If I don't know, I ask people if they have any dietary limitations in advance, and plan my menu accordingly. I am less likely, however, to invite an individual vegan if he or she will be the only vegan in the group. Instead, I would invite that vegan when there were others in the dinner party. In that case, I would prepare a vegan meal, since everyone can eat everything on the table that way.

My only fixed rule is that I do not prepare any foods that pretend to be other foods. I have never seen the point of that, frankly.

Most restaurants, these days, offer vegetarian, vegan and gluten-free menu items, along with other items that are not restricted in that way. That makes good sense, and ensures that everyone can find something on the menu they can eat.

Brilliant opportunists.

Get in while you can.

reflected upon this very question in an April 8, 1966 cover story.

written or edited to market to veggie/vegans and the text was written assuming at least vegetarianism.

I noticed because I wanted to serve a lot more veggies, building meals around them with meat as a side but not even that alwas, instead of vice versa, and was looking for compilations of just plain delicious vegetable recipes, not ideologically edited ones.

As for those who've become genuine vegans, the billions of animals living and dying in our commercial horrors are no longer their doing. It's everyone else's. Or at least they're not paying money for it, however counterproductively some might be voting/not-voting to help the knuckledragging, conscienceless, child-persecutors to power.

Wherever you go in this world, the parties that vote to make meat production as humane as possible, or even just more humane at the expense of profits, are those dominated by liberals. Here in the U.S., where big power is binary, if you're not electing Democrats you're empowering the butchers.

The way I eat works for me, I eat dairy and eggs. Rule of thumb with my food - eat fresh - no processed food. Now in my middle years, very healthy.

I have no desire to go vegan, which I divide into two camps - those who learn to cook with a variety of food making sure what they're eating is nutritionally sound and that takes a lot of work. Then, those who are vegan because it's trendy, eating a limited diet that includes a lot of processed crap. Processing plants to taste and look like meat? Gross.

I'll stick with what I'm doing, thank you.

Should be easy for you to do it. Yet, you continue to eat meat.

who uses his canine teeth regularly.

My tastebuds are such that most vegetables taste painfully bad, and most of the rest would not provide sufficient nutrition.

Most food items that can be made with gluten taste better when it is there. Many foods that didn't have gluten to begin with, have jumped on the GF bandwagon in their advertising. Since i don't have Celiac disease, I don't need to pay extra for something that doesn't taste as good as it could.

I have several food intolerances, all of which are vegetable-based, so I have to check ingredients carefully.

But all of that is me. If you enjoy a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle, more power to you. Enjoy. Where I get mad is where people treat things that are generally true as absolutely true.

People have to come to that - if ever - in their own due time.

LESS suffering. And I'll often use the unsanitary nature of these 'farms' to get my point across rather than the cruelty because a lot of people don't give a shit about that.

Right wingers have lost their freaking minds.

Jordan Peterson has switched to an all-meat diet, and if you pay his daughter, she will tell you to eat meat. They literally have set up a service in which right wing people can be instructed to eat meat. Weird.

over 20+. That is my choice. I don't disparage anyone who is not, or who is vegan. I don't eat dairy products and eggs, every day necessarily, I never eat meat.

We eat meatless, often vegan, about half the time. I’ve tried going vegetarian several times, even with the help of nutritionists, and I end up feeling like crap after a month or two. So I kind of alternate meat meals with vegetarian/vegan meals. I’m making a pot roast tomorrow. The next day is Lebanese lentil soup with a Mediterranean salad, both vegetarian. After that, a fish meal. It all balances out.

The food Is SO GOOD. I try to limit dairy because I know that is the worst of all - but I have cheese issues. I try to avoid cheese with animal rennet - yuck!

If anybody knows of a good coffee creamer that doesn't change the flavor of the coffee and is dairy free please advise.

If we all just CUT BACK on consumption it would be a better world.

I made ice cream with it. It is very close to cream in taste and texture (does not taste like coconut either).

It comes in a bottle that is shaped sort of like a bowling pin.

been searching for a completely dairy free creamer for years and have spent a lot of money with no success.

It was back in the refrigerated dairy alternatives department. Also, you are more likely to meet vegetarians and vegans at such stores, even among staff. If you find one that has a staff that is on the ball, they can help your search. I will be shopping at the healthfood store likely Thursday or Saturday, I will try to remember to swing by the refrigerated area and get the name of what I mentioned, it tastes like cream to me.

Apparently a lot of people get offended when you chose to eat differently?

I have been hassled once, only once by someone about my diet and what they said was stupid and incorrect and just not necessary.

I do not hassle people over their diet and they don't hassle me. Who the hell cares? It is either a personal or medical choice. Move along.

that plants aren't seen as living things by some.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170109-plants-can-see-hear-and-smell-and-respond

We need to address ethics, of course, but we’re not separate from nature.

i used to love milk, cheese, eggs, and foods containing them -- my #1 favorite set of ingredients since childhood. i gave it up and got a lot healthier.

it wasn't slow either. the eczema i had since i was 5 completely vanished in a couple weeks. going vegetarian had little effect on my health, but when i stopped eating dairy too i noticed a big impact right away.

do you know how cheese is made? do you know what rennet is? how much cheese does anyone really need in their diet?

i'll stick to eating plants, thank you very much.

Incredibly, the same scenario happened to me. I'd drifted between laco-ovo vegetarian and pescatarian diets for many years. First I gave up eating seafood (was difficult for me) and eventually I decided to eliminate dairy and eggs. Within a couple of weeks, the chronic eczema I suffered with and had been unsuccessfully treated for by dermatologists, disappeared, never to return. Now in my mid 60s and fit as can be. I have been on a 100% whole food, plant-based diet for over 5 years and fully enjoy the vegan lifestyle. It's amazing how easy it was to transition into this way of eating. Reading many of the posts in this thread indicates that there is still much confusion and misunderstanding in regards plant-based eating. Knowing that eating plant-based is the most important individual behavior a person can incorporate into their life to reduce their carbon footprint, as well as the horrendous suffering of animals must endure in the animal ag biz, makes it all worthwhile. It's not so difficult as one might imagine and the benefits are bountiful.

it's almost like the people eating the animal-protein diets know deep down that getting nutrition from meat and dairy is sub-optimal for several reasons, and the mental constructs required to continue doing so require frequent maintenance and constant active vigilance.

my experience and correlating stories from so many others makes me wonder which rates of chronic health conditions in the population would drop off to near-zero within months of human society adopting a completely plant-based diet.

Lisa gets starry eyed over a cute animal activist.
She tells him she's a vegetarian. He scoffs that he's a class 5 vegan. "I won't eat anything that casts a shadow!", he says.
No judgment here. Just thought it was a funny line.

...whatever you call it, that’s what I am.

It’s madness.

What a silly article.

Being vegan and being able to afford food was to difficult for this disabled senior.
I gave up red meat instead.

From my experience, vegetables and quality fruit tend to be more expensive than some meat choices pound for pound. I believe that people eat too much meat and can cut way back.

... does that make you a bad person?

I fill my VA deer tag every year, and I eat what I kill.
But if restaurants wish to cater to a clientele which doesn't share my culinary tastes, why the fuck should I care?