Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

riversedge

(70,293 posts)
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 02:45 PM Jan 2020

helicopter carrying Kobe Bryant & 8 got special approval to fly even though the foggy weather

I got as an email but I do not subscribe so can not post more of story.



Breaking News: The helicopter carrying Kobe Bryant and eight others got special approval to fly even though the foggy weather conditions were below usual standards.
Inbox


11:15 AM (1 hour ago)

..........................


BREAKING NEWS
The helicopter carrying Kobe Bryant and eight others got special approval to fly even though the foggy weather conditions were below usual standards.

Monday, January 27, 2020 12:12 PM EST

According to audio records between the helicopter’s pilot and air traffic control at Burbank Airport, the helicopter was given what is known as Special Visual Flight Rules clearance, allowing the pilot and his passengers to continue on a foggy morning in Southern California.

Whether or not that was the right decision is likely to be at the center of the investigation into the cause of the crash.

Read the latest

35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
helicopter carrying Kobe Bryant & 8 got special approval to fly even though the foggy weather (Original Post) riversedge Jan 2020 OP
It's really risky on the other side of a hill or mountrain range, with downdrafts. TheBlackAdder Jan 2020 #1
they should be more careful with someone like Kobe BRyant, not less so. demigoddess Jan 2020 #2
Why? They should be equally careful with all passengers. maxsolomon Jan 2020 #5
Really??? Why not be the same with anyone? Weird! Nt USALiberal Jan 2020 #9
What an odd comment. cwydro Jan 2020 #14
WHY? pangaia Jan 2020 #32
So what this probably means is that the pilot was not IFR rated. mnhtnbb Jan 2020 #3
The reports are that the commercial helicopter pilot was instrument rated and current VMA131Marine Jan 2020 #11
Don Lemon was interviewing a helicopter pilot from the SoCal area, and bullwinkle428 Jan 2020 #18
He's supposed to have been a highly qualified pilot and instructor nolabear Jan 2020 #20
I've been in a helicopter when everything else was grounded, it was bizarre to be inside the fog, it braddy Jan 2020 #4
helicopters IcyPeas Jan 2020 #6
I feel exactly the same. phylny Jan 2020 #12
I was privileged to ride in many while in the military MH1 Jan 2020 #15
An example of emotion overriding data... Happy Hoosier Jan 2020 #24
why? pangaia Jan 2020 #33
If true, I guess it means that Bryant was instrument rated. Firestorm49 Jan 2020 #7
Bryant wasn't the pilot. Iggo Jan 2020 #8
Special VFR doesn't mean what is being implied here VMA131Marine Jan 2020 #10
Anyone who still thinks flying cars will be a thing Ron Green Jan 2020 #13
Straight up. Iggo Jan 2020 #19
My father was instrument rated. cwydro Jan 2020 #16
So, the same issue that happened to John Kennedy, Jr.? Baitball Blogger Jan 2020 #17
Spatial disorientation, flying through fog, "Get there itis", sounds familiar Baclava Jan 2020 #21
"Get there itis" yortsed snacilbuper Jan 2020 #25
Apparently not. mnhtnbb Jan 2020 #22
It dosen't seems like they use any common sense, yortsed snacilbuper Jan 2020 #23
Why fly SVFR if you can get an IFR clearance? The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #26
Aircraft may not have been equipped cos dem Jan 2020 #29
I wonder whether the flight was Part 91 or 135. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #34
Aircraft WAS IFR equiped . That model helicopter must be. pangaia Jan 2020 #35
Bending the rules for celebrities in serious matters does not provide adequate safety for them. Cousin Dupree Jan 2020 #27
SVFR is part of the rules, so they weren't being "bent" cos dem Jan 2020 #30
It appears that pdxflyboy Jan 2020 #28
That is not what Special VFR means.. pangaia Jan 2020 #31

maxsolomon

(33,384 posts)
5. Why? They should be equally careful with all passengers.
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 03:20 PM
Jan 2020

I don't know about the pilot's quals, but if they were approve to fly in low-vis...

mnhtnbb

(31,402 posts)
3. So what this probably means is that the pilot was not IFR rated.
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 03:13 PM
Jan 2020

Because why wouldn't you fly IFR with those conditions?

I lived in Santa Monica. I know about the fog. My husband was a VFR rated general aviation pilot. Once, when he had a trip planned with our kids but conditions were not favorable for VFR, he hired an instrument rated pilot to fly them out of the area to another airport, and then he took over as pilot.

It will be interesting to hear whether the pilot flying the helo had an instrument rating and enough experience to know what he was doing.

So sad. Reminiscent of the JFK, Jr. tragedy.

VMA131Marine

(4,146 posts)
11. The reports are that the commercial helicopter pilot was instrument rated and current
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 03:46 PM
Jan 2020

Why he didn't just file an IFR flight plan in the marginal weather is a mystery unless he couldn't get a timely slot to fly.

bullwinkle428

(20,630 posts)
18. Don Lemon was interviewing a helicopter pilot from the SoCal area, and
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 04:22 PM
Jan 2020

he stated this model of helicopter was definitely IFR rated, but they didn't at all get into the idea of whether the pilot was or not, and that was something I didn't even consider.

nolabear

(41,991 posts)
20. He's supposed to have been a highly qualified pilot and instructor
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 05:06 PM
Jan 2020

Per the story naming him and sending condolences

 

braddy

(3,585 posts)
4. I've been in a helicopter when everything else was grounded, it was bizarre to be inside the fog, it
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 03:15 PM
Jan 2020

was what people call scary.

phylny

(8,385 posts)
12. I feel exactly the same.
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 03:51 PM
Jan 2020

While I'm not thrilled about flying as a passenger in an airplane, I do it. Helicopter? No way.

MH1

(17,600 posts)
15. I was privileged to ride in many while in the military
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 04:16 PM
Jan 2020

They're great. Never seemed the least bit unsafe.

I probably wouldn't think that if I'd been flying in less than optimal conditions. I don't recall ever boarding a chopper on other than a beautiful day, now that I think about it. Most of my flights were with a skydiving club so we wouldn't have been up on a crappy day. And, it was Arizona, so that helped. (one or two flights in Korea too, for different reasons, but again always nice weather)

I think it's insane that they flew in fog in a mountainous area.

Happy Hoosier

(7,377 posts)
24. An example of emotion overriding data...
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 05:19 PM
Jan 2020

According to historical statistics, flying in a helicopter is about 9 times safer than riding in a car.

Firestorm49

(4,037 posts)
7. If true, I guess it means that Bryant was instrument rated.
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 03:27 PM
Jan 2020

You’re not going to fly in fog or with limited visibility without an instrument rating.

Iggo

(47,564 posts)
8. Bryant wasn't the pilot.
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 03:34 PM
Jan 2020

He was a passenger.

Per huffpo article:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-victims_n_5e2eeb29c5b6779e9c37a5a4


Ara Zobayan
Bryant’s private pilot Ara Zobayan was flying the helicopter when it crashed, reported multiple outlets. He was an instrument-rated pilot and was qualified to fly in fog, reported Fox 5 San Diego.

Zobayan’s friend Jared Yochim mourned the loss on Facebook, recalling him as an “incredible pilot ... and truly great man” who was “always cool, calm and collected.”

Yochim described Zobayan’s death as a tragedy for an entire community, adding: “Ara impacted so many people and only in a positive way. I’m sorry that you never got to meet him. You would’ve loved him, I promise.”

VMA131Marine

(4,146 posts)
10. Special VFR doesn't mean what is being implied here
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 03:36 PM
Jan 2020

It is a modification of standard Visual Flight Rules with additional restrictions. Any flight and/or pilot that can satisfy the more stringent requirements can request Special VFR. This is not like the pilot asked for a favour because he had a VIP on board which seems to be what people are thinking.

https://pilotworkshop.com/tips/special_vfr_clearance/

“A Special VFR Clearance is an ATC authorization for a VFR aircraft to operate in weather that is less than the basic VFR minima. Basic VFR minima are 1,000-foot ceiling and 3 miles visibility. If the reported weather is less, a pilot can request a Special VFR Clearance.

Special VFRSeveral conditions must be met; the visibility must be at least one statue mile, the pilot must remain clear of clouds and at night, the pilot must be instrument rated in an IFR capable aircraft.

The request for clearance can be made with either the Control Tower or Approach Control. It is not necessary to file a complete flight plan but the request should have enough detail to allow ATC to fit the flight into the traffic flow. The clearance will usually contain an at or below altitude to separate the SVFR from IFR traffic and still allow the pilot to maneuver clear of clouds.

SVFR can be an effective tool to allow a VFR aircraft to land or depart in conditions below basic VFR. On those days when there is a stubborn 900 foot cloud deck over the airport but you can see into the next county, a SVFR clearance can let you fly towards better weather. That is the most important point about a SVFR – always make sure you are flying towards better weather or have an escape plan. You never want to be trapped in marginal conditions.”

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
16. My father was instrument rated.
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 04:16 PM
Jan 2020

He never took us up in bad weather.

He had some harrowing stories of when he was caught up in a bad weather turn.

 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
21. Spatial disorientation, flying through fog, "Get there itis", sounds familiar
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 05:13 PM
Jan 2020

But the investigation will make those determinations, people are still mourning, let them have their time, premature speculation doesnt mean much right now

mnhtnbb

(31,402 posts)
22. Apparently not.
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 05:15 PM
Jan 2020

Supposedly an experienced, qualified pilot who was also an instructor. JFK Jr. Was not at that level.

I lived all over L.A. for 20+ years. Beach fog could extend inland. Makes no sense why he would have been flying so low in adverse conditions in proximity to the Calabasas hills. Was he star struck by flying Kobe and not paying attention?

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,831 posts)
26. Why fly SVFR if you can get an IFR clearance?
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 05:27 PM
Jan 2020

The pilot might have done it because it was quicker, but if you can file IFR it's safer than SVFR, which is pretty crappy visibility.

Cousin Dupree

(1,866 posts)
27. Bending the rules for celebrities in serious matters does not provide adequate safety for them.
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 05:34 PM
Jan 2020

Many rules were broken when Joan Rivers had that procedure that killed her. Rules for flying, medical procedures, courtrooms, etc. were made for a reason. Making exceptions can be very dangerous.

cos dem

(903 posts)
30. SVFR is part of the rules, so they weren't being "bent"
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 05:47 PM
Jan 2020

I could ask for SVFR if I wanted to. "Is it safe? " Is a different question.
The line between SVFR and scud running ( flying below minimums) is very smal, and leaves little room for error.

pdxflyboy

(678 posts)
28. It appears that
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 05:39 PM
Jan 2020

he was "scud running", in other words, trying to fly visually while barely remaining clear of the clouds. I have flown military helicopters and jet airliners. This pilot was the only pilot on board (single pilot). It would have been VERY challenging for him to have flown the helicopter on instruments without a copilot. Instead, he was trying to navigate visually in very marginal weather conditions in a mountainous area. Not a good situation to put you and your passengers in.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
31. That is not what Special VFR means..
Mon Jan 27, 2020, 05:49 PM
Jan 2020

They didn;t get what we non-pilots would think of as 'special approval.'

And special VFR is not un-common.

It's complicated..
Here is one link ...

https://www.thinkaviation.net/special-vfr-clearance/

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»helicopter carrying Kobe ...