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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEzra Klein: I don't know how to communicate how constitutionally dangerous the senate situation is
So last night I was on @allinwithchris and I realized I don't know how to communicate how constitutionally dangerous the Senate situation is right now.
We're not arguing over what Trump did. We're arguing over whether Republicans *want to know* what Trump did.
Sometimes this whole saga feels like a thought experiment where we keep layering on more and more extreme conditions to see how broken the Republican Party really is.
Okay, but what if Trump releases a call record in which he says Biden's name repeatedly?
Okay, but what if we also have him tell Ukraine and China to investigate Biden on TV?
Okay, but what if we have Republican appointees testify that he did it to the House?
Still nothing? Wild. Okay, how about this:
We get John Bolton, hero of the America right, scourge of liberals, to say that he will testify, under oath, that he personally heard Trump say the aid was contingent on Ukraine going after the Bidens.
John Bolton.
I mean, surely?
And the GOP's answer is...they don't want to hear it? That these are unsourced allegations, and their official position is they refuse to hear from the source directly?
Even when that source is John $*%@# Bolton? The guy they've been to the ramparts to defend?
How can you look at this and say the Republican Party isn't breaking our constitutional design and creating a massive zone of presidential corruption?
It's not that they've gotten all the evidence and they just truly believe Trump didn't do it.
It's that they don't want to know, because the more they know, the more undeniable it is that Trump did it.
McConnell's move in all this has been to create such certainty around acquittal that it's tiring for people to pay attention because it's so clear how the story ends.
But the story here isn't just impeachment. It's about what Republicans are doing to the political system.
And to be very clear, yes, I have written a book about polarization, and yes, stating the reality of American politics clearly is polarizing.
This is the point of the book: party polarization, at this pitch and intensity, will break American politics. amazon.com/Why-Were-Polar
If Republicans in Congress can't act like members of Congress first and Republicans second then the system's fundamental design stops working.
We built a system around the competing incentives of branches, not the competing incentives of parties.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1222521721225449472.html
in2herbs
(2,945 posts)Pacifist Patriot
(24,653 posts)Eyeball_Kid
(7,432 posts)Klein ought to come right out and say that a Senate acquittal yields a collapse of the governmental framework, which will lead, very quickly, to a dictatorship.
We all know the implications of a dictatorship, don't we?
Klein sounds a bit panicky, and justifiably so, but he seems tongue-tied, if I can use the metaphor.
Come on, Erza. You're aiming at the target. Now, hit the bull's eye.
Buckeyeblue
(5,499 posts)But because they aren't calling witnesses we will never know what he did. It's crazy.
malaise
(269,053 posts)ReTHUGs already know - they don't want the American public to know.
They all took Russian money and the COn has the goods on all of them - it's his preferred model.
In fairness to Ezra Klein, I think what he's also saying, in twitter shorthand, is that they don't want it on the record that they know.
JHB
(37,160 posts)...they want to "preserve deniability."
usaf-vet
(6,189 posts)Remember MoscowMitch and the NRA had millions of Russian dollars to pass around to "encourage support" but from the Russian point of view to create a tally sheet of who they had their hooks into
Also, remember the GOP senators that traveled to Russia for private "talks". A little wining and dining to create comrades. Then a menu of desserts to temp their к̶о̶м̶п̶р̶о̶м̶а̶т̶ ̶м̶и̶ш̶е̶н̶е̶й̶ [blackmail targets]. A little audio here a little video there. And the deed is done. Comrades for life.
Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exists two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least amount of assumptions is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,862 posts)or that most Senators are being blackmailed, is not the simplest answer. In fact, the blackmail hypothesis is a complicated one, and assumes that every single person is keeping quiet about the blackmail. Which would not happen over a period of years.
A simpler hypothesis is that they want to hold on to power and re-shape this country so as to keep that power. Period. And they will do anything to that end.
My offer of an explanation.
usaf-vet
(6,189 posts)impeachment trial to hold his caucus together. If that isn't illegal bribery it sure as hell should me.
Our whole legislative branch of government is fed on the money. The everyday search for dollars to hold on to the office. Without the office, power is lost and reshaping the country becomes a dream.
IMO that is why we have Citizen United and that is why it needs to go. Follow the money is still the simplest way to uncover the villains.
calimary
(81,310 posts)Yep. Whos bought n paid for. Who is now owned. A wholly-owned subsidiary.
It was true back when Deep Throat advised Bob Woodward during Watergate. And its still true now.
You see clearly what is going on. Thank you for articulating this fact. The GOP is compromised, and terrified of being exposed. The truth is that they cannot win without cheating, rigging, taking massive amounts of money illegally, undermining the rule of law, subverting the popular will, bullying, and so on. I despair that we will be able to reclaim our elections and vote them out. At the local level, in our precincts, we need to insist on paper ballots, hand counted, such that we can restore confidence in the results. And we need to register voters and challenge lies that are repeated in the media and demonstrate and make phone calls and write letters to our representatives and our newspapers and ... whatever we can do! The situation is dire.
usaf-vet
(6,189 posts)live love laugh
(13,118 posts)If they get away with both theyve succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.
Joinfortmill
(14,428 posts)cp
(6,636 posts)and now part of the cover-up
bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,666 posts)Those who have been warning were called "alarmists," were laughed off, and had Godwin's Law thrown at them.
Now? We're about to launch one party rule, with a deranged narcissist at the helm and a bunch of oligarchs less then two degrees of Bacon from the Russian mob pulling the strings from behind the curtain.
Scary times.
KPN
(15,646 posts)Sparko55
(52 posts)All the main stream media keep trying to tow the line of both siderism. Fact is - it's never been both sides. The GOP has been playing by a totally different playbook for some time now and the opinion makers in the USA have abided them all sorts of get out of jail free, pass go and collect $200 tickets in the process. They refused to confront outright lies, repeated incessantly from the Reagan era on with increasing levels of subservience so they were not excluded from the press scrums, favored seats at the White House press room, and other perks they so desire all in the name of access. And now pompous ass Pompeo clearly lays out the new ground rules and excludes NPR from access to drive home the point, and still the press can't call out the crap.
I held out that the USA could recover from the Bush II years, let alone the Reagan-Bush period and was greatly disappointed in whole, and between living and working outside the US for over a decade during the past 25 years, thought it certainly couldn't get worse - and then it did with 2016 and Trump. Having lived in Germany and done extensive travel to many of the WWII sites both in the country and across Europe, and reading the history of 1920 and 1930's Germany, it struck me then and more so now, that the fever that gripped Germany in those dark days has descended on the US. And it leads to the unfortunate conclusion that unless the fever is broken soon, nothing will prevent the USA from the same denouement that occurred in Germany in 1945. Hard to say that, but the same toxic forces of rampant idiotic nationalism, combined with willing "religious" participation to bring along the sheppie's in blind subservience to the dear fuhrer sees a downward spiral that doesn't end well for anyone. And now we see the total evisceration of historically strong institutions and the demise of the Senate at the hands of the absolutely corrupt "members of the GOP party", and understand that yes history does repeat.
agree completely. Alas for the world, the US has enough firepower to destroy the world many times over and the insane willingness to use it, rather than change direction. It is liable to get really ugly.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,015 posts)Kaiserguy
(740 posts)would love to kill 33% of there fellow Americans and 33% will sit back and say nothing as long as they are not the ones being killed. That is America today thanks to right-wing propaganda. It could get very ugly if you are not a straight white Christian Trump lover.
Response to femmedem (Original post)
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packman
(16,296 posts)My heart and soul tells me Bolton is evil to the core - someone I would never have a beer with nor in my house. Yet, today I see him as the only person that may sway some senators against Trump. Cannot believe it would come to this.
Joinfortmill
(14,428 posts)bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)The top of the party is clearly corrupt and willing to openly fix the election.
The top of the GOP legislators are demonstrating that they are willing to violate their oath of office to support the corrupt/criminal top of their party.
All GOP candidates at all levels are complicit through act or silence that they support the corrupt/criminal top of their party.
If the Dems take over in 2020, anything less than a filibuster proof majority in the Senate could allow the GOP to block the kind of legislation needed to reverse the rot injected into the system and might require Constitutional amendments to insure the SCOTUS doesn't overturn good government laws.
EndlessWire
(6,537 posts)will not fix it for them. They'll own the death of the Constitution forever. So, saying, "I made a mistake" will not be enough to resurrect their very souls from this most foul deed.
njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)Our only hope is he has a stroke, Heart attack, or something else and dies.
Nasruddin
(754 posts)They will keep him alive. Animatronics, silicon patches, and anti-bacterials will keep the body in motion.
They have plenty of prerecorded BS they can play (what he's been saying lately barely makes any sense anyway).
Mossfern
(2,513 posts)BadGimp
(4,015 posts)The GOP really knows how to wage a War.
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)It appears that panicky remarks about the situation are a bit in order, or to be expected.
We all may sense the fact that, once we cross over a certain, constitutional line in the political sand, we are not only facing a platform for literal dictatorship, (which I feel has been Trump's intent all along) but, as history shows, we may never be able to recover from it or return to any semblance of democracy again. Then, we get the boot that stomps on a human face forever.
There is already far too much wealth available to enforce it and at least three firms funded and dedicated to world policing, as well. You can call them security companies or mercenaries, but in this case, they equivalent to me.
That's the panicky part to me. In light of the most recent events, it appears to be happening and it is not a matter of speculation or mere theory. I have never seen our country so close to a Fascist dictatorship as this. In times like these, one wonders just what our military might do and to whom or what their intelligence in really pledged.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)Chris Hedges once said a dictatorship can't succeed unless the military cooperates, so the importance of your last sentence is not lost on me.
General Mattis seemed to understand this president was dangerous, and tried to compartmentalize the Pentagon from the whims of a madman. But now he is gone, and the new Secretary of Defense caved to Trump's demand that he defy a subpoena for documents. So there's no reason to expect the Pentagon not to follow his orders on other matters.
Haggis for Breakfast
(6,831 posts)They do NOT swear an oath to the president, they swear an oath to The Constitution. That is our highest order of law, not the Oval Office.
Far too many people have the misconception - largely due to the M$M slant - that all military, active duty and veterans, are big trumpie supporters. NOT TRUE. Yes, there are some. But by no means the majority. He has lied to us, insulted us, abused us and denigrated our heroes. He has lost the vet community.
coti
(4,612 posts)be alright in the long run.
EndlessWire
(6,537 posts)but, we are all acutely aware of the fact that Trump is setting himself up as a dictator. The question will become, what can we do about it?
When this vindictive orange turd begins to arrest his opponents and enemies, who will stand up for them? And, how will we do it?
The very next thing we have to do is turn out in massive, overwhelming numbers to VOTE EVERY LAST REPUB OUT OF OFFICE. NOTHING LESS THAN THAT WILL DO.
Be prepared to shut the government down and do nothing but vote BLUE. Businesses, give your employees the day off. Our priority is to vote Blue.
VOTE BLUE.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)Opposing witnesses is an indefensible position, or at least it should be.
debsy
(530 posts)A unitary executive has been a wet dream of the right since the Reagan years. They want a permanent state of Republican majority rule. Cheney and Rove are both big proponents of this ideology.
BootinUp
(47,165 posts)Marcuse
(7,488 posts)crickets
(25,981 posts)MissouriLibrul
(35 posts)Did Miller actually say that?
Trust and believe, hes the one running the show. Its eerie how little we ever hear about (or from) him. Trump is just the mouthpiece chosen to spread Millers and Putins poison.
Marcuse
(7,488 posts)moondust
(19,993 posts)The Enabling Act of 1933 was a Nazi amendment to the German Weimar Constitution that was instrumental in making Adolph Hitler a legal dictator.
The "Enabling Act of 2020" will be a combination of two or more Republican votes in the U.S. Senate that will be instrumental in making Donald Trump a legal dictator.