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First Speaker

(4,858 posts)
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 09:34 PM Feb 2020

Does Putin want *Germany* to go fascist...?

...I've been thinking about the rise of right-wing extremism in Germany. I'm not suggesting that there's any necessary link between Putin and the events in Germany. Nor am I suggesting there's not. But we know what Putin wants--to weaken Nato, spread authoritarianism where he can, and expand Russia's sphere of interest. In pursuance of this, he's helped establish neo-authoritarian regimes in Poland, Hungary and Turkey; he's done what mischief in Britain, and with Brexit, he can; and of course, he's placed his puppet in the White House. Fine. But Germany. Does he really want to establish a neo-authoritarian, fascistic regime...*in Germany*? Could any Russian leader be that insane? This would be the ultimate example of playing with fire...

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Does Putin want *Germany* to go fascist...? (Original Post) First Speaker Feb 2020 OP
Of course he does, he helped the USA go fascist hasn't he? nt doc03 Feb 2020 #1
Yes!!!!! Wellstone ruled Feb 2020 #2
Putin wants the EU and NATO to break up DFW Feb 2020 #3
Thank you for a lucid and knowledgeable answer... First Speaker Feb 2020 #4

DFW

(54,426 posts)
3. Putin wants the EU and NATO to break up
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 10:23 PM
Feb 2020

Russia can't dominate a prosperous united bloc of nations. It CAN dominate individual smaller nations weakened by internal divisions. A Brexit here, an AfD there, and pretty soon, no one wants to be part of a big picture any more (remember the former Yugoslavia). No Russian alive ever forgets that Germany failed in its invasion of Russia because it was fighting on its western front the whole time as well. DeGaulle and Adenauer forged the idea of an alliance between Germany and France so strong that they would never fight a war against each other again. That brilliant idea formed a couple of generations of a pacifist Germany so used to the idea of peaceful relations with its immediate neighbors that there is no country on Germany's borders any more that even has border control or customs barriers.

Putin would love to dismantle that, but the huge majority of Germans are so used to the current situation (and like it) that they want no part of anyone who would pose a danger to that. He was part of an occupying force in "his" part of Germany that had the power to execute uncomfortable locals if they deemed it necessary--which they occasionally did. I've seen the wall in Potsdam that still has the bullet holes. He doesn't get that the west abandoned that mode after Nürnberg. In the days of East Germany, the Soviets referred to East Germany as "our (i.e. their) " Germans, a people to still be in need of control and occupation. The pacifism of the west confuses him. The militarist tendencies of the far right make much more sense to him. Germans that enjoy being able to drive across a border to France, Denmark or the Czech Republic with no more formality than seeing a sign saying "now entering..." confuse and scare him.

First Speaker

(4,858 posts)
4. Thank you for a lucid and knowledgeable answer...
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 12:20 AM
Feb 2020

...to be honest, I was kind of hoping you'd respond...

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