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First Speaker

(4,858 posts)
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 07:01 PM Feb 2020

Jesus H Christ, MSNBC...get Christopher Matthews the fuck off the air!

...I just saw the actual clip of him telling how terrified he is of "socialism". He sounded exactly like a terrified Victorian spinster jumping on a chair at the sight of a mouse. In some ways, this was worse than anything I've seen at Fox "News", because they're supposed to be morons. He is supposed to be a "mainstream" pundit. I can only suppose that he's getting dementia...I mean, he's always been bad, but not *this* bad. MSNBC--put him, and us, out of our misery...

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Jesus H Christ, MSNBC...get Christopher Matthews the fuck off the air! (Original Post) First Speaker Feb 2020 OP
I agree. He needs to be gone. Dream Girl Feb 2020 #1
I thought my husband would combust last night over CM's over the top sideways opinions eleny Feb 2020 #2
Those aren't socialism. The VA is our only large socialized Hortensis Feb 2020 #9
Yes, those aren't Socialism - they're part of Democratic Socialism - nt eleny Feb 2020 #10
Huh? NO, they're not. Democratic socialism has less Hortensis Feb 2020 #13
He's done his political calculus and decided he should kneecap about 50% of the Party. OAITW r.2.0 Feb 2020 #3
Agreed 100% eleny Feb 2020 #4
CM was a few years ahead of me at Holy Cross College back in the day. OAITW r.2.0 Feb 2020 #7
He had so little respect for the others on the panel eleny Feb 2020 #11
Sounds like the clip moondust Feb 2020 #5
Easy fix Sherman A1 Feb 2020 #6
Reminds me of an old joke Cirque du So-What Feb 2020 #8
That meltdown alone should be grounds for him being fired. OliverQ Feb 2020 #12
What's this bdamomma Feb 2020 #14

eleny

(46,166 posts)
2. I thought my husband would combust last night over CM's over the top sideways opinions
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 07:08 PM
Feb 2020

Are Medicare, a military, police, fire and his beloved Peace Corp bad because they come from all of us?

Btw, he doesn't even have his facts straight. There's a difference between Democratic Socialism and Socialism and Castro's Communist Cuba.

I'm sure that Lawrence would have loved to educate him. He's explained the differences on his own show more than once. The other panelists reeled themselves in out of respect, imo.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
9. Those aren't socialism. The VA is our only large socialized
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 07:31 PM
Feb 2020

program. Right now, though all VA employees work for the VA on VA property using VA property, they can always quit and find a new job if they don't like conditions. That COMPETITION is crucial to maintaining wages and working conditions at competitive levels.

Imagine if your industry was socialized and you had one possible socialized employer, without competition. Good news, you get a job. Bad news, that's the only place to work and it's almost impossible for employees to be fired. Bad news, wages are determined by a committee who don't do the work, bad news everyone gets paid the same whether they work or not, dragging production and presumably wages down. Bad news, the business goes under and big government steps in to shore it up with a new committee. Or not. Maybe the new committee instead informs you your job will be at the next closest cooperative operation.

Sanders' Democratic socialism avoids centralized authority in DC, so you'd complain a state or county offices instead. But there'd still be only one employer to complain about.

That's if it's working. All big socialist experiments have failed. So, BAD news: There is no replacement job.

And strangely enough, those committee members and other higher-ups? They typically became new elites and often even shopped stores created especially for them that most citizens never saw the inside of. Lest they become unhappy.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
13. Huh? NO, they're not. Democratic socialism has less
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 08:43 PM
Feb 2020

centralized control of socialized institutions than, say, Venezuela, and coexists alongside democratic political institutions. But otherwise it's socialism, with all the problems of missing competition and economic vigor.

Speaking of those committees, did you know that Sanders' own campaign employees were so underpaid and abused they rebelled? The field workers are not just abused, they can't support themselves on what they're being paid. Sanders made lemonade out of that giant political lemon by creating the first presidential campaign union. So, they negotiate. Upshot of "successful" negotiations? Hourly pay is raised and hours they're allowed to work are slashed, so he's not paying them any more and they still can't live on what they're being paid -- AND they get a giant slap in the face telling them their work isn't valued.

NOW, back to Democratic socialism: Imagine Bernie Sanders is the head of the committee when you ask to be reimbursed for the gasoline you burn on the job because it's seriously impacting your net income.

(Gotta remember, all systems will include the same old bad actors behaving the same old ways. The trick is having the ability to control them, and a critical element is choice, ability to walk.)

So, after a few weeks and etcetera you're ultimately told your reimbursement will be increased from .65 to .75 per gallon but your route is also going to be increased. Sorry, but the coop isn't doing well and another field worker is being reassigned because you can't afford to pay all of you. (This is a reasonable scenario. Collectives often don't do well.)

So, under capitalism you currently can walk and find another job. Under Democratic socialism, you can knuckle under where you are, or you can COMMUTE or MOVE to be close enough the closest other collective that will allow you to become a member; some may require a buy-in you can't afford, though, or have worse reputations than you're trying to escape.

Since you are an owner of your current collective, leaving involves getting your share out, can be very complex, and could result in economic penalties you can't afford. For obvious reasons, leaving can be a problem for management and is discouraged. Maybe you'll give up and stay.
Or maybe you'll leave your ownership in place because it'll bring in some minor income, do as your brother-in-law did and get your certificate in preschool childcare, and join a childcare collective close to home with a very low buy-in -- and very low shared profits.

Btw, before you tell me Sanders says it works in Scandinavia etcetera, NO it doesn't. Those European nations are all capitalism-based just like us. They differ only in that they have socialized more government-controlled entitlements than we have (again, we currently only have the VA. Social Security is not even remotely socialism, merely government controlled).

So. Democratic socialism is VERY DIFFERENT from Europe's social democracies. It means seizure of industries for communal ownership and replacing the giant wellbeing-producing engine of capitalism with communal ownership. Sanders once advocated a whole list of industries that should be seized, but he's gone very quiet on that little detail for some years now. But if it's Democratic SOCIALISM (NOT social democracy), it's socialized ownership and control. And no nation that's ever tried it has succeeded.

OAITW r.2.0

(24,556 posts)
3. He's done his political calculus and decided he should kneecap about 50% of the Party.
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 07:09 PM
Feb 2020

Trump will thank him for this, just like GWB appreciated his kind words on"Mission Accomplished".

eleny

(46,166 posts)
4. Agreed 100%
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 07:12 PM
Feb 2020

Hubby and I talked about CMs performance and in the end came to the conclusion that he knew what he was doing. To the educated his opinions appeared to come out of ignorance as I pointed out in my earlier reply. But you have to be right. And I believe that in trying to harm 50% of our candidates he hurts them all and us. He's so misguided in his approach.

OAITW r.2.0

(24,556 posts)
7. CM was a few years ahead of me at Holy Cross College back in the day.
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 07:18 PM
Feb 2020

He had to have been influenced by the social advocacy of the Jesuits and the social justice heritage of Mike Harrington and the Berrigan brothers.

But he sold his soul to play the journamilism role that favors the powers to be. He will cover his best interests by finding as much fault with the entire Party as he does with his criticism of Trump and the OCP.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
11. He had so little respect for the others on the panel
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 07:50 PM
Feb 2020

Seems like he's gotten to the point where his is the only worthy opinion at the table.

moondust

(20,002 posts)
5. Sounds like the clip
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 07:17 PM
Feb 2020

of him on the panel after the debate last night when he said he was old enough to remember it in Vietnam. Huh? Is he back to the old "domino theory"? I couldn't believe it.

 

OliverQ

(3,363 posts)
12. That meltdown alone should be grounds for him being fired.
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 07:51 PM
Feb 2020

Ignoring how terrible he is on a normal basis.

bdamomma

(63,917 posts)
14. What's this
Sun Feb 9, 2020, 12:29 AM
Feb 2020

and socialism is being practiced by the party of tRump, they are practicing Reverse socialism where they take from the taxpayers and the redistribute to that 1%.

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