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yewberry

(6,530 posts)
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 04:52 PM Feb 2020

Student loans and intergenerational warfare: random thoughts

I read a lot about tension between generations on all kinds of fronts-- in the workplace, relative to environmental issues, affordable housing, tech. One that flares up here and within the party is student loans. Everybody has feelings about student loans.

I'm a Gen X-er. Mostly we stand off to the side, watching Millennials & Gen Z squabbling with Boomers, and vice versa, hoping that no one notices us. We're pretty successful at that. As a group, we're smaller and quieter. We are less successful at work than those before us and after us, but we're the workhorses. Not digitally native but capable. Latchkey kids who became slackers, cynics & nihilists, reportedly. We are highly educated compared to our Boomer parents-- more than 60% of us attended college at some point. So we hear you on the student loan issue.

When my mom went to college (a state school in MA), she was able to earn enough to pay for school by working over seasonal breaks. Yes, she lived at home with her family and commuted, but imagine being able to pay for school by working summers and holidays. When I finally got serious about school (and it took me a while) I didn't consider private schools, because, hi, who has that kind of money? I lived in New England, where state schools were expensive. So, I moved to WA and got a restaurant job, then attended Settle Central Community College for 2 years. Community college is cheap, gang. Paid for it out-of-pocket. Right now, SCCC annual in-state tuition is hovering around $3500. After 2 years, I transferred to University of WA, kept working full-time, and graduated 2 years later magna cum laude. In-state tuition today at UW is around $10,200, higher than the national average of about $7200.

My brother went to UNH, and brother- and sister-in-law went to private schools and used student loans to cover living expenses. Their loans are all still astronomical. I attended a good university but worked and used loans for tuition and books only. I then did 2 years of national service, got my loans small enough to drown in a bathtub (h/t to Grover), and paid them off quickly by paying twice the principal. At that time (early 2000s) it was possible to get an education without a lifetime of debt. It still is but it's a lot harder.

For someone like me, it's a little hard to swallow student loan forgiveness because I worked hard to do it myself, and watched family members have a much easier time of it by subsidizing their lives with loans. I resent the idea of someone who may not need free tuition using it to go to a top-tier school that was never available to me. That is not an accusation against anyone, just my perspective.

Are there compromises? I strongly support free pre-K and kindergarten for all (tangentially related, yes, but everyone should get off on the right foot). I strongly support free or heavily-subsidized community college and trade schools. I strongly support interest caps on student loans. I strongly support legislation against loan holders double-dipping by selling student loan debt.

I don't intend to be mean or petty-- no one deserves a lifetime of debt-- but can you see through my eyes on this issue?

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Student loans and intergenerational warfare: random thoughts (Original Post) yewberry Feb 2020 OP
+1 jimfields33 Feb 2020 #1
zero interest student loans. Fresh_Start Feb 2020 #2
Interest-free or at least competitive with market rates democrattotheend Feb 2020 #7
20% interest and 10% unemployment rate 1981 was not a a great time Fresh_Start Feb 2020 #8
That's why I said it democrattotheend Feb 2020 #9
house hunting ... Fresh_Start Feb 2020 #10
i don't like free college because means that lower income families Fresh_Start Feb 2020 #3
Good point. yewberry Feb 2020 #5
Society is better when it's citizens are educated. MissB Feb 2020 #4
All true. yewberry Feb 2020 #6
"we're the workhorses" Piasladic Feb 2020 #11
That's an actual thing. yewberry Feb 2020 #12

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
2. zero interest student loans.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 05:05 PM
Feb 2020

graduated loan forgiveness based on public service

stipends (for books,transportation,....) for students with family incomes below $50K (pick a number this is just a suggestion), because when the family income is low the child can't attend college because the cost of college beyond tuition is outside of the family ability to cover.

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
7. Interest-free or at least competitive with market rates
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 08:35 PM
Feb 2020

Student loans should be capped at their current rates, at the most, but when the market has lower interest rates borrowers should get the benefit of that. I refinanced my law school loans with a private lender because I couldn't justify continuing to pay 6.8-7.9% interest when market rates were half that. But in exchange, I gave up certain protections federal loans have. It was the right decision for me because I had enough saved, a stable job, and family I could fall back on in the absolute worst case. But most people are not so fortunate, and at a minimum, they should be able to get the protections of federal loans, like hardship deferments, without having to pay 1980's level interest rates.

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
8. 20% interest and 10% unemployment rate 1981 was not a a great time
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 08:42 PM
Feb 2020

to start a career, buy a house or anything else for that matter...

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
9. That's why I said it
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 09:09 PM
Feb 2020

Although I didn't think interest rates in the 1980's were 20% - I thought they were high single digits to mid teens.

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
10. house hunting ...
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 09:13 PM
Feb 2020

The federal funds rate, which was about 11% in 1979, rose to 20% by June 1981. The prime interest rate, an important economic measure, eventually reached 21.5% in June 1982.

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
3. i don't like free college because means that lower income families
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 05:13 PM
Feb 2020

subsidize college for higher income families.
this is due to the higher participation rate in college at higher incomes...and the fact that higher income household also will chose higher cost colleges.

there should be an income and asset cutoff when you and your family pay for college.

late boomer with college loans from both undergraduate and graduate school...who is sandwich generation paying for college from children while also supporting parent with poor health

it really should be free for good students with little/no family resources...but not free for the affluent

yewberry

(6,530 posts)
5. Good point.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 08:30 PM
Feb 2020

I do think two years at a CC or trade school should be free. Also, a lot of people don't have clear goals at first and this would give them time to find their direction without spending a lot of money figuring it out.

MissB

(15,810 posts)
4. Society is better when it's citizens are educated.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 05:28 PM
Feb 2020

Dh walked out of undergrad with no student loans. He’s a dinosaur so his parents were able to pay his way out of pocket (FIL was a logger, mil was a part time bookkeeper). Dh’s employer later paid for his masters degree at an Ivy, giving him a year off to go get it.

I walked out of undergrad with $30k in student loans. My parents couldn’t/wouldn’t pay for college. I couldn’t make enough working in the summer to pay for everything.

I’m not bitter because others attend college for little to no money. I had a heck of a good grade/high school education that allowed me to pursue my engineering degree. Society already helped me by landing me in good school districts along the way.

Our kids don’t have loans- they earned free rides. It’s a bit unfair because we really did seek out a very good school district for them, and we could’ve afforded to pay their way. But they applied where they wanted to be and kept within our confines of what we’d pay (equivalent to instate $). The oldest may go to an Ivy for grad school - he’ll make his decision in April. It’s a fully funded Ph.D program.

I don’t begrudge anyone that gets their loans forgiven. The parent plus loans are such a racket- I’ve told my coworker’s horror story of owing nearly a half mil in parent plus loans. He will never repay them.

Parents know that many kids need college to be seen as successful in life. Not 100% true, but a college education certainly provides a citizen with a greater understanding of the world around them.

For what this country spends on defense and ancillary services, we should be able to provide the best education from preschool to Ph.D.

Life isn’t fair. But we can be better.

yewberry

(6,530 posts)
6. All true.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 08:34 PM
Feb 2020

I don't think I can get on board with total loan forgiveness but can't disagree that we certainly can and should do better.

yewberry

(6,530 posts)
12. That's an actual thing.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 10:14 PM
Feb 2020

I looked it up, though YYMV.

Despite their growing influence and responsibilities at work, Gen Xers are most overlooked for promotion and have been the slowest to advance. We found Gen X leaders on average had only 1.2 promotions in the past 5 years, significantly lower than their younger millennial counterparts (1.6 promotions) and more senior baby boomers (1.4 promotions) during the same period of time.

While Gen X leaders are often under-recognized for the critical role they play in leadership, they are typically expected to take on heavy workloads. On average, Gen X leaders have 7 direct reports, compared to only 5 direct reports for millennials. While their advancement rate is slower and their teams larger, Gen X remain loyal employees. Only 37 percent contemplate leaving to advance their careers — five percentage points lower than millennials.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/generation-x--not-millennials--is-changing-the-nature-of-work.html

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