When I encounter people like that, I try to convince them to vote 3rd party. Any vote you can take away from Romney helps.

Seriously - for the unconvertible, that is a really good idea.

We don't need his sorry, lying ass in the Dem party.

But they can be convinced to vote 3rd party

To dent his bloated ego.

Is it that hard to say "most rich people"?

There are some wonderful rich people. Do you think John Kerry is a leech? How about Eva Longoria? Or the Kennedy family?

And act entitled to everything (he had told me several times, "You are making a big mess digging all that dirt, you should hire someone to do it so it gets done faster. We're sick of looking at it".

This guy acts entitled about everything. I do not care for his attitude. It is not an attitude I have ever seen in a poor person. They may HOPE they get dinner, but they dont act horrified if they see a donut that didn't come from a french bakery.

God knows how many votes we lost on that post alone.

Blanket statements usually show ignorance.

For starters, there are plenty of nonrich people who completely fall for the GOP lines, and there are wealthy people who have their priorities straight.

no matter how nice you are. I mean, sitting on billions while children starve. A nice person would sit on a billion or maybe 400 or 500 million and then consider sharing some of the rest. Feed some kids.

I'm sorry. I know rich people and even the nice ones are kind of poisoned by the fear of losing their money. Still good people...but hoarding fortunes is not, by nature, a very Christian attitude.

Last edited Sun Sep 9, 2012, 02:30 AM - Edit history (1)

Here's a rundown of the various dirty pies warren has his fingers in:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101727422#post1

Buffett is probably one of the biggest beneficiaries of the mortgage bubble fraud + bailout.


here's a good one:

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/12612/warren_buffet-owned_companys_prison-made_product_may_have_broke_u.s._law/

Earlier this month, a company owned by Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway—Shaw Industries Group Inc.—admitted to violating Canadian law by shipping flooring made by U.S. prison labor into Canada. But a prison industry expert tells In These Times that the company may have also broken American law by not clearly labeling its goods as partly deriving from prison labor...

While prisoners have traditionally only produced items like state-issued license plates and equipment for governments, many states are now expanding the use of prison labor to produce goods for sale in public markets through a federal program called Prison Industries Certification Enhancement Program (PICEP). There are currently about 200 "factories" in U.S. prisons certified through PICEP that manufacture goods sold on the general market. (Multiple certified "factories" can be located in the same prison.)

...probably close to a million inmates are working full-time in jails and prisons throughout the United States” (These prisoners in some cases produce goods for as little as 23 cents an hour.


The poster comments:

Lastly, let me turn to Buffett and his widely played remarks calling for higher taxes on the rich for capital gains and dividends.

Buffett owns HUGE shares in companies, he cannot easily pull out of a stock without destroying its market value. He also is known for long term holding, and reaping huge profits, and if his companies get in trouble, he goes running to the government to bail him out.

So, what better to ensure a stock's price than raising the penalty on ALL OTHERS for pulling out by taxing that capital gain at a much higher rate. He is actually calling for the government to force people to stay in stocks much longer than they would have, due to tax penalties. Meanwhile, he completely benefits, as this captive group of investors now is much less likely to abandon the firms that he holds huge shares in. Meanwhile Buffett and his fellow ilk will use ultra-complicated (and previously illegal) accounting methods to offset the increase in taxes he would have paid via losses that he will say he incurred.

I completely agree the truly rich should pay more, as the US tax system is designed to smash small and medium sized firms, whilst the big multinationals, who basically wrote the tax code through lobbyist pressure, pay next to nothing. But Warren Buffett's plans are a sham, a scheme, and also will hurt, once again the small investor and small businesses, who employ 70% of all Americans.


Please recognize buffett's 'folksy' reputation for what it is -- A public relations-generated image that has nothing to do with the real man. You don't get to be the richest person in the world by being a nice guy. Period.

And he pledged to give away his entire fortune to charity after he dies. His kids are already pretty well set and have their own non-profit organizations.

And the Buffet tax idea also increases taxes on cap gains and dividends to 30% which is double what it is today.

And Buffet is hugely invested in the railroad business now which I hope he has plans for modernizing. Rail uses 1/10th the energy that trucks do.

Last edited Sun Sep 9, 2012, 05:11 AM - Edit history (1)

work and what they do, it doesn't sound as good.

1) The wealth is not 'given away' -- it remains under the control of captive boards (if the donors are saavy enough to set things up to ensure that, & i'm sure warren is). In the case of the gates foundation, warren is currently on the board, & i'm sure his kids or some proxy will be when he dies.

Warren is not giving BH stock away all at once, or even at his death: it is being given bit by bit each year, and only so long as there are Gates family on the foundation board.

Only 5% of foundation assets must actually be 'given away' each year, which means on average, foundation principal will grow, not shrink.

2) Foundation capital is subject to no or very minimal taxation.

Q: How does a private charitable foundation lower my personal tax liability?
A: You as Founder can contribute up to 30% of your "adjusted gross income" which lowers the amount your tax is figured on and also lowers the %. This can be in cash or in personally owned assets. For example, a W-2 income of $100,000 can create a $28,000 tax liability; donating $30,000 to your foundation reduces that liability to $19,600, and saves you $8,400. For operating foundations 50% can be donated; in the same example as above, a $50,000 donation saves you even more. Results are dramatic for all tax brackets.

Q: Does my foundation have a required annual payout instead of paying taxes?
A: Yes. "Qualified Distributions" equal 5% of the average value of invested assets. (This 5% includes a 1-2% excise tax.) Distributions are paid out for administration and expenses, and to charitable activities of your choice.

Q: What taxes is my foundation exempt from?
A: Federal income tax, capital gains tax, estate and gift taxes. It also is exempt from sales tax on purchases it makes, and property taxes in some counties.

Q: You mean that it pays no capital gains on real estate or investments? Ever?
A: Correct.

Q: Who has control and makes the decisions for the foundation?
A: You and the Board of Trustees which you appoint.

http://www.the7thfire.com/freedom_sovereignty/private_foundations.html

3) Foundation investments can be and are used as financial & political weapons to steer the (global) economy & politics in desired directions -- for example, as the gates foundation is currently using theirs to privatize public education, marketize remaining peasant economies, promote genetically modified crops, and buy off scientists and others.

To take one little-known example of foundation influence -- they influence the cases the supreme court takes and the decisions they make.

http://journal.telospress.com/content/1984/62/59.short

Having insider information about what the foundation will be investing in is also useful when making one's private investments.

Foundations can also be used to prop up or crash stocks.

4) The 'investments' made by foundations are subject to no democratic oversight by the larger society, just the desires and power grabs of a handful of rich people. I doubt a majority of americans, or even world citizens, want an agriculture dominated by proprietary genetically modified crops, but that's what we're going to get -- and gates and buffett (his son's foundation is also significantly pushing this sector) are a large reason for that. Gates & Buffett are tightly partnered with Monsanto, for example.

5) Foundation actors can and do act in concert, moving huge amounts of capital to achieve their goals -- as Gates, Walton, and other foundation players are currently doing in education -- though as representative 'liberal' and 'conservative' actors, they are supposedly playing for different political 'teams'.

6) High-paid foundation jobs can provide nice sinecures for heirs, political payoffs, etc. Not to mention pay their health insurance & pensions, transportation including personal vehicles, furnish other tax writeoffs, etc.

7) There is also a certain amount of 'charitable immunity' in the law -- meaning that the foundation is somewhat immune from responsibility for harm it does, lawsuits, etc. In a number of states trust assets are completely immune.

8) Foundation grants are a means of controlling and in effect 'buying off' local/regional activist or charitable organizations that otherwise might cause trouble for the big boys, and to direct their activities into 'safe' channels.

The rise of foundation funding is probably the reason there are so many people to 'good works' out there while nothing much ever changes in the big picture and the need grows greater.


There is a reason that every wealthy person (and a lot of less wealthy ones) has their own foundations these days, and a reason that buffett set up his kids with their own foundations, as well as control of one in his wife's name -- let alone whatever private trusts he's set up for the kiddies. The reason is that you get to keep control of the money, no matter what the press releases say. People don't get to be rich as croseus because they're good guys who want to help other people. They get that way because they have a single-minded devotion to accumulating money and power.


Warren Buffett choose to celebrate the 82nd year of his life in a different way, announcing that he is donating shares of his company equivalent to $3.1 billion to his three kids’ foundations.

In 2006, Buffett made an initial contribution to the three foundations of 17.5 million Class B shares of his firm, Berkshire Hathaway. In an open letter published Thursday, he announced to his three children, Peter, Susan, and Howard, that he would be upping that donation by 12.2 million shares each by next July, decreasing by 5 percent per year subsequently.


In this pathbreaking study of foundation influence, author Joan Roelofs produces a comprehensive picture of philanthropy's critical role in society. She shows how a vast number of policy innovations have arisen from the most important foundations, lessening the destructive impact of global "marketization." Conversely, groups and movements that might challenge the status quo are nudged into line with grants and technical assistance, and foundations also have considerable power to shape such things as public opinion, higher education, and elite ideology. The cumulative effect is that foundations, despite their progressive goals, have a depoliticizing effect, one that preserves the hegemony of neoliberal institutions.

http://www.sunypress.edu/p-3716-foundations-and-public-policy.aspx

Nobody wants to listen.

right?

Last edited Sun Sep 9, 2012, 01:04 AM - Edit history (2)

I'm sure the guy who he returned it to gritted his teeth and considered this guy's potential future purchases. At least this time, he let the guy return it. I wonder what will happen next time, when the neighbor isn't cut as much slack.

saying that he should keep an eye on this guy next time he's in the shop.

Go all "Ayn Rand" on his ass ...

That's some irony....

Tell him what he did, and why, and what he said he would do next time.

he boasted about that once--

This is the same family, when the church opened a community garden up the block, rushed to sign up even though there were only 20 plots for the whole neighborhood. So, even though they are super rich, they took one of the only community garden plots available--which, too me, deprived some family of a chance to grow some food that might be sorely needed.

Karoke machines - people buy them for a party, then try to return them

big screen TV purchases right before the superbowl

Many home depot / home improvement items - Restocking fees make then more like rentals for folks like your neighbor.

Just seemed sleezy to me.

i know that costco lets one return items purchased with no questions asked - 100% refund. i've never seen an obviously used item on their shelves.

i agree that it's sleazy though. funny how it seems the richer one gets, the more they get for free....

continue until many Americans wake up and get their heads out of their butts. That is the advantage they have, so many Americans are willfully ignorant, gullible and naive. And then their are those that will never know any better. And then their are those that have an organic predisposition to be conservative and frightened by everything.

No reason to damage the shovel you already have.

you would think he would do something constructive, creative for society...He is just living off his step dad like an indulgent child. It seems he has no ambition nor goals. He is a leech.

Some rich people I know would have charged rental and then taken it back.

My mom used to work in a very snooty department store in Beverly Hills. She told me stories of very rich women buying designer clothes, obviously wearing them, and then returning them.

I myself could tell you stories when I did bookkeeping for really wealthy people, how they legally get away with not paying for much of anything.

Well, except for the "legally" part. It is not really legal for them to have personal cars and all expenses paid for by the company. It is not legal for them to have their cell phones and all their family's cell phones paid for by the company. It is not legal for them to have the company pay for all of their insurances (personal autos, homeowners, etc). But they do get away with it.

My boss is always treatening me that he is going to close the business and get rid of all the headaches by working for someone else, just like I do. I encourage him to do it----and find out how much it costs to have car payments and gasoline bills and cell phones for his kids and wife and auto insurance. And it would be fun to see him have to live on a paycheck instead of whatever amount he wants to write out of the company. He hasn't done it yet, and I have heard this for years. Ha.

like a wholesale wine distributorship, which they bought wholesale and didn't pay sales taxes on just for their own use, then since the corporation didn't make any money, they took a federal tax deduct on it. I was never privy to exactly where the debits and credits went. That the accountant kept from me, but I'm sure it was very fishy.

Of course, the laws only apply to the underlings. And the chances of getting caught are slim. But don't ever think that this is legal.

This shows the kind of people the Republicans cater to, and the kind of people who support the Repugs.

Instead of a pressure washer, it was a nail gun. Several of us were sitting around talking and one of them needs to do something that would require a nail gun. A couple of them (the one who started this was one of our city police officers and that bothered me) suggested that he buy one, use it, then return it the next day with the excuse that it wasn't "just what he wanted". I sat there a few minutes thinking that through, then spoke up to say that I could never do that. It wasn't right and it wasn't fair. Thankfully, there were a few others who had to agree, then the suggesters backtracked and said that it probably wasn't ethical, but if the store had no problem, why should they.

Arrrgggghhhhh!

There is an attitude in this country that is totally fucked up.

my mom has driven back to the store because they made a mistake in her favor. Come to think of it, I have walked back into the store myself because they messed up.

I wasn't always this honest but after a mis-behaved childhood I kinda swore myself to be a good boy and have been semi neurotic about being honest ever since.

But I believe that you can regret being too dishonest. It is all about looking yourself in the eyes in the mirror and not turning away sheepishly.

Not because he is a R. But because he is a scumbag.

No I do not condone violence.....unless it involves the malicious purchase/rental of power tools.

always leeched from the system without contributing to it and the only way to stop it is to force each generation to participate, just like we all have to.

but it's certainly not limited to rich folks. I'm sure you could find people in any income bracket who buy items, use them for a task, and then return them...

at a time, driving drunk home from golf at noon...and I mean so drunk he couldn't stand up hardly. I yelled at him for it in the middle of the street. Believe me, he deserves the opinion I have of him.

The poor might need something but can't actually afford to purchase it, because then they won't make rent, or they'll be lucky to eat ramen all week long.

I can think of other words too, but I won't use them.

Probably some person will come along and buy this used thing and it will break (Made in China special dare I suggest?).

Then the "new" owner will be all pissed off, take it back to the store and demand a refund.

And the lies and fraud continue from this rich SOB aka your neighbor.

We've got a few around here too (not many though).

I'll never forget one day when a load of rock was delivered for landscaping. I mean it was a huge load of rock, far more than a single person could handle.

Our PUblican't neighbor across the street watched. After it was over he came over and said, "Wow, what a lot of work you had there! I was going to come over and help buttttttttttt ........".

No excuses, no nothing for creatures of this ilk.

They are indeed hopeless flea bags filled with nothing but toxic wind IMO.

Next time, give him a used piece of toilet paper. He'd probably figure out a way to get his money back for that too I bet!

unless you're wanting to dig a bigger hole!

as opposed to 'freeloading". Maybe it's a bigger drain on the demand we need for job creation than anyone realizes.

That way the better off can have their clean and money too.

We have to require by law they obey traffic signs and pay taxes. These types of people just don't care, they can give $10,000 dollars to a champain and it means very little to them because they traded zero energy for it, but if they can screw a business they are all in, there's no cost to doing so which they admit.

They do not like romney, are "not sure" about Obama and don't know what to do this election. I have been finding that facts can go a long way with people in this position. I have seen at least four republicans say they are likely voting for Obama this election.

I just laughed and walked away knowing fully well about the:

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act
Auto Industry Bailout
Capture of Osama Bin Laden
and more...

Yes, I could have said something but this guy is a Fox News nut and I really don't care what he says or thinks.

Either that, or suggest all their money is dirty.

You know what your getting. With Romney you're getting a charlatan that changes his positions with the wind.