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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWe need to quit saying Trump cut funding to the CDC
He may have wanted to, but that never came to pass.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false-claim-about-cdcs-global-anti-pandemic-work/
"As the COVID-19 disease caused by the new coronavirus has spread around the world, a number of politicians, news organizations and public figures have made the false claim that the Trump administration cut the Centers for Disease Control and Preventions anti-pandemic work in over 40 countries to just 10. The CDC told us thats not true.
The claim appears to have been based solely on outdated news reports from early 2018 that said the CDC was preparing to dramatically reduce its work helping to prevent infectious-disease epidemics. Those reports said much of that work on the Global Health Security Agenda, a pact between over 60 nations that began in 2014, had been funded by a five-year, nearly $600 million supplemental package that was dwindling. That one-time funding, which Congress originally appropriated in response to the Ebola epidemic in West Africa in 2014, ran out at the end of September 2019."
still_one
(92,216 posts)AlexSFCA
(6,139 posts)I didnt know that either. I though he cut the pandemic team funding by 70%.
If he somehow manages to survive this crises with fewer deaths than Italy, he may just win reelection as the markets will skyrocket.
still_one
(92,216 posts)going through, i believe he still wants to cut the CDC budget
Congress probably won't let that happen
Trump is a impeached President. This major screw up is a reminder.
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 14, 2020, 08:43 AM - Edit history (1)
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-administration-isn-t-backing-proposed-cuts-cdc-budget-n1155411It was a month ago yesterday when the White House released its official budget for the coming fiscal year, to the delight of Donald Trump's political opponents. Writing for Esquire, Charles P. Pierce took a look at the latest blueprint and concluded the document deserved to be seen as "political suicide."
As we discussed at the time, it was a reasonable assessment. Trump's budget is brutal towards Americans struggling most. It proposes slashing health care investments. It eyes cuts to education and environmental safeguards. It targets the same social-insurance programs -- so called "entitlements" -- that the president swore he'd never touch.
But there was another element that Team Trump probably didn't appreciate the significance of at the time: as the coronavirus threat was just starting to come into focus in early February, the White House recommended significant cuts to investments at the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention.
To be sure, this president had called for deep cuts to the CDC budget before, and Congress ignored those requests. But calling for CDC cuts in the midst of a global viral outbreak seemed especially bizarre.
Stranger still, the White House apparently hasn't changed its mind. The Hill reported yesterday:
Russ Vought, the acting director of the White House Office of Management and Budget, on Tuesday doubled down on proposed cuts to health services and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), despite the coronavirus outbreak.
Rep. Matt Cartwright (D-Pa.) reminded the White House budget director that the president's blueprint proposed cuts to both the CDC and the Infectious Diseases Rapid Response Reserve Fund. The Pennsylvania Democrat asked, "The question is today, as we sit here and we know about coronavirus and the impact it's taking on the people of the world and the economies of the world and the stock market and everything, as you sit here today, are you ready to take that back?"
It would've been easy for Vought to make some comments about "changing conditions" and "unexpected fiscal demands," but instead the White House budget director replied, "If you're asking if I'm sending up a budget amendment, no, I'm not sending up a budget amendment."
In other words, as far as Team Trump is concerned, the proposed cuts to the CDC have not changed.
Even some congressional Republicans have raised concerns with the direction. Nearly three years ago, Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) said in response to the administration's proposed budget cuts, "I promise you the president is much more likely in his term to have to deal with a pandemic than an act of terrorism. I hope he doesn't have to deal with either one, but you have to be ready to deal with both."
Yesterday, in a hearing with CDC Director Robert Redfield, the Oklahoma congressman didn't reference his earlier warning, but he reminded the administration that budget-cut requests like these are pointless. "This is not something that's likely to go away, and I think that's something again I hope the executive branch realizes over time, regardless of who's there," Cole said, adding, "So there's no sense sending us a budget that cuts things that we're not going to cut, and doesn't work with us in areas where we want to make investments."
Haggis for Breakfast
(6,831 posts)And many key posts within the agency have yet to be filled.
Sugarcoated
(7,724 posts)I posted Pfeiffer's tweet, have a fb friend asking how much the cdc budget was cut and "what was the pandemic response team?"...
Link to tweet
?s=20
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)brewens
(13,590 posts)RockRaven
(14,972 posts)That is accurate AFAIK -- he has repeatedly proposed budgets which decrease the CDC's funding compared to the prior budget, and just a couple days ago his senior budget ass-wipe confirmed they stand by this year's proposal of reduction.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)Stop defending this administration over CDC.. WTF is wrong with you?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)Why the Trump Administrations Coronavirus Response Continues to Raise Concerns
By Matt Stieb and Chas Danner
Health and Human Services secretary Alex Azar and CDC director Robert Redfield. Photo: OLIVIER DOULIERY/AFP via Getty Images
But as Foreign Policys Laurie Garrett recently explained, the administration has spent years enacting policies and putting forth budgets that have weakened the U.S. governments ability to prepare for and respond to an outbreak like this one, both in the U.S. and abroad. In addition, as Garrett highlights, the administrations notoriously dysfunctional personnel drama and haphazard efforts to reduce the size of the government havent helped either:
In May 2018, Trump ordered the NSCs entire global health security unit shut down, calling for reassignment of Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer and dissolution of his team inside the agency. The month before, then-White House National Security Advisor John Bolton pressured Ziemers DHS counterpart, Tom Bossert, to resign along with his team. Neither the NSC nor DHS epidemic teams have been replaced. The global health section of the CDC was so drastically cut in 2018 that much of its staff was laid off and the number of countries it was working in was reduced from 49 to merely 10. Meanwhile, throughout 2018, the U.S. Agency for International Development and its director, Mark Green, came repeatedly under fire from both the White House and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. And though Congress has so far managed to block Trump administration plans to cut the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps by 40 percent, the disease-fighting cadres have steadily eroded as retiring officers go unreplaced.
Flaleftist
(3,473 posts)TeamPooka
(24,229 posts)to attack him in ads over it.
crickets
(25,981 posts)hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)budget cut even this week as Mnuchin was questioned in Congress.
is wrong with you?
Take it elsewhere. I don't intend to sit back and let Trump be defended over his actions re: CDC, especially now when I know personally what is going on within CDC and how he has decimated them at the time we need them most. Driven out some of the most key people due to his paranoia over DEEP STATE and not replaced them.
Again, WTF is wrong with you, defending him? Yes, I'm angry as hell seeing you do so. As should every DUer here, especially now. Can you not see with your own eyes what he has done to CDC? Put a figurehead in as Director who basically thinks HIV is a religious response to LGBTQ? Has shoved the most qualified within CDC to deal with COVID-19 aside because 1. they are women and 2. because he's decided one being the sister of Rod Rosenstein can't be trusted, despite decades of work at CDC? How even NIH's Anthony Faucci has had to bow and scrape to praise/defend him--walking the thinnest line of not compromising the true critical health messages-- when in his presence in public appearances?
Yes, I'm pissed. And THAT is who you want to defend and We who know better are to be derided in your opinion. Got it? I'm mad! I wanted to think you were well-meaning, but as the thread continued, you didn't back off or even attempt to clarify your intent. Just seem to want to call out those who criticize Trump because some of what is being circulated online might not be true in the strictest sense, though there is more than enough to put in its place. WHY?
Semantics being played by Trump defenders. Poor Trump while he continuously lie on national TV and blame Obama for his ineptness. Trump doesn't care about science or our health departments.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)True Blue American
(17,985 posts)I-am funny that way. I prefer to listen to those who know Vs. Those who repeat what they hear!
Give me the expert who knows!
TexasBushwhacker
(20,196 posts)Did you even read the whole article? He asked for cuts. HE DID NOT GET THEM. The president suggests a budget, but it is Congress that adjusts it and approves it. The CDC did not get its budget cut.
It's important that when we make our arguments against Trump, we use facts. Saying the CDC's budget was cut by Trump is not true and will prompt an accusation of "fake news". That's what happened to me yesterday. There are plenty of things wrong with Trump. We don't need to distort the truth to make him look worse.
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)error when the bulk of the issue and story is true as I have well documented here in multiple posts.
And you seem to be all to willing to help.
Do some independent fact-checking before you are so excited about deriding all of us, the MSM, the Dems in Congress and by extension, defend the administration.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,196 posts)and I've been here since 2004.
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)Proposed budget documents are prepared by OMB an agency until just recently headed by tea party founder Mick Mulvaney. It should surprise exactly no one that it contains budget cuts to many, many programs and agencies because Mulvaney and his ilk don't believe in government or government spending.
Where the rubber meets the road is in the House Appropriations and Authorization bills for each cabinet department and sub-agency. These are the documents to compare when looking at FY to FY funding.
Assessing hiring freezes is trickier. Generally, those are expressed in FTEs (full time equivalent) positions that gives agencies some flexibility to hire more lower graded employees and fewer higher graded ones rather than letting vacancies remain where they occur. Vacancies in the offices where the agency's headquarters are, are not necessarily important to the day-to-day work.
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)nor does it make your defense of Trump et al less indefensible here.
Trump has decimated CDC, just as he has DOJ, State Department, EPA, DOL, and the rest of government. He has left CDC a shelll to deal with this pandemic. And yet, you can't help but promote his excuses.
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)This is how federal gov't spending actually works. This is how the federal gov't actually operates. That is your choice to believe it or not.
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)brought on CDC. YOu keep propelling propaganda, despite the fact that one of my links documents that as little as three days ago, Trump officials refused to pull the budget cut to Congress. And I provide nearly a dozen other articles that fully examines the destruction, dismantling and previous cuts. If you refuse to read all of what I provided to you, then kindly keep your refusal to educate yourself to yourself.
No more Trump propaganda promotion!
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)Why the Trump Administrations Coronavirus Response Continues to Raise Concerns
By Matt Stieb and Chas Danner
Health and Human Services secretary Alex Azar and CDC director Robert Redfield. Photo: OLIVIER DOULIERY/AFP via Getty Images
But as Foreign Policys Laurie Garrett recently explained, the administration has spent years enacting policies and putting forth budgets that have weakened the U.S. governments ability to prepare for and respond to an outbreak like this one, both in the U.S. and abroad. In addition, as Garrett highlights, the administrations notoriously dysfunctional personnel drama and haphazard efforts to reduce the size of the government havent helped either:
In May 2018, Trump ordered the NSCs entire global health security unit shut down, calling for reassignment of Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer and dissolution of his team inside the agency. The month before, then-White House National Security Advisor John Bolton pressured Ziemers DHS counterpart, Tom Bossert, to resign along with his team. Neither the NSC nor DHS epidemic teams have been replaced. The global health section of the CDC was so drastically cut in 2018 that much of its staff was laid off and the number of countries it was working in was reduced from 49 to merely 10. Meanwhile, throughout 2018, the U.S. Agency for International Development and its director, Mark Green, came repeatedly under fire from both the White House and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. And though Congress has so far managed to block Trump administration plans to cut the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps by 40 percent, the disease-fighting cadres have steadily eroded as retiring officers go unreplaced.
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)That's American Public Health Association, if you don't know. They sent the alarm nearly a year ago!
http://thenationshealth.aphapublications.org/content/49/3/1.2
White House budget proposals are often more vision than reality. But they offer revealing insights into an administrations values and priorities. Unfortunately, in the case of President Donald Trumps new budget plan, many of those priorities are out of step with public health, proposing significant cuts to vital programs and agencies.
In a time where life expectancy is falling, our leadership should be investing in better health, not cutting federal health budgets, said APHA Executive Director Georges Benjamin, MD, in a news release. This budget, put simply, kicks the can of worsening American health down the road.
Trump released his fiscal year 2020 federal budget proposal in March, recommending huge cuts across the federal government, including a 12 percent cut to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and a 10 percent cut for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
At CDC, a reduction of that magnitude equates to a $750 million spending cut over fiscal year 2019. APHA member John Auerbach, MBA, president and CEO of Trust for Americas Health, said the proposed CDC cuts not only threaten federal public health capacity, they would have a devastating impact on state and local public health departments, which depend heavily on CDC dollars flowing down to the community level.
Local health departments are still down more than 50,000 jobs from where they were in 2008, Auerbach told The Nations Health. If large cuts like these were passed, it would seriously harm the overall capacity of state and local public health departments to respond.
Among its proposals for CDC, the White House budget calls for a more than $236 million cut to chronic disease prevention and health promotion, a $146 million cut for the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, a more than $102 million cut to emerging and zoonotic diseases, and about a $52 million cut to CDCs environmental health activities, including funding for asthma and childhood lead poisoning.
The budget proposes a near $20 million cut to injury prevention and control, a more than $30 million cut to public health preparedness and response, and a more than $78 million cut to immunization activities, including work to sustain and improve immunization coverage. The budget also zeros out critical funding for epidemiology and laboratory capacity at state and local levels.
On the flip side, the Trump budget proposes an additional $140 million to support a new plan to end U.S. HIV transmission by 2030. It also calls for an additional $53 million to address the opioid and related disease epidemic, nearly $50 million more for global health security and $10 million more for modernizing flu vaccines.
More funding for serious challenges such as HIV and opioid addiction is good news, said Adriane Casalotti, MPH, MSW, chief of government and public affairs at the National Association of County and City Health Officials. But the budgets siloed approach to such problems also suggests a misunderstanding of the complexity of disease prevention and control.
There are certain, basic fundamentals that should be in place everywhere, she told The Nations Health. No matter what ZIP code you live in, people should know theres a strong public health system there to support them.
For example, Casalotti said, the White House budget proposes a $585 million increase for the Vaccines for Children Program, which provides free immunizations to children who might otherwise go unvaccinated. At the same time, however, the budget proposes significant funding cuts to CDC work that sustains protective immunization levels, such as activities to address vaccine hesitancy and gather data on at-risk populations. The White House efforts on HIV and opioid addiction have come under similar criticism especially considering that Trumps budget calls for massive cuts to Medicaid, a critical provider of addiction and HIV care.
Its definitely good to have HIV recognized at the highest levels for the epidemic that it is, Melanie Thompson, MD, immediate past chair of the HIV Medicine Association, told The Nations Health. Any new money thats allocated is going in the right direction, but its a drop in the bucket in terms of what we really need to end the epidemic.
Thompson, also a principal investigator at the AIDS Research Consortium of Atlanta, said that because the HIV epidemic overlaps so profoundly with social determinants of health such as poverty, housing and access to affordable care, it is hard to envision meeting the goal of ending HIV transmission by 2030 if Trumps proposals to slash the social safety net also came to fruition.
Ending the U.S. HIV epidemic also requires action to stop the virus globally, Thompson said, noting that the White House budget calls for a 29 percent cut to the Presidents Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, which has provided millions with lifesaving treatment.
Were not in a position to turn down any money that could help us focus energy on ending this epidemic, she said. But you cant give with one hand and take with the other.
On programs that impact many social determinants of health, Trumps budget proposes more huge reductions, including a $777 billion cut to Medicaid over 10 years, as well as nearly $600 billion in net Medicare spending reductions. According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, Trumps 2020 budget would cut Social Security assistance for people with disabilities, cut billions from Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, raise the rent for low-income households receiving housing assistance, and cut the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program by $220 billion over the next decade.
Other public health-related agencies under the ax in the White House budget include a 31 percent reduction at the Environmental Protection Agency, an 18 percent cut for the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, and a 15 percent cut to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
The budget proposes a $1 billion cut to the Health Resources and Services Administration, a $4.7 billion cut to the National Institutes of Health, including a nearly $900 million cut for the National Cancer Institute, and a cut of $65 million at the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. The budget proposes a small increase for the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, as well as funding for more full-time OSHA employees.
It is surprising to see cuts that were reverse sides of the coins we know the administration cares about, said Dara Lieberman, MPP, director of government relations at Trust for Americas Health, citing proposals such as increasing opioid funding at CDC, while decreasing funding for suicide and substance abuse at SAMHSA. Putting your thumb over one break in the dam while allowing other breaks to grow doesnt work.
While a presidential budget proposal is by no means a done deal, it does factor into overall decision-making by legislators, said Emily Holubowich, MPP, executive director of the Coalition for Health Funding, of which APHA is a member.
Holubowich called on public health supporters to urge lawmakers to adequately fund public health during budget negotiations. She said the new 22 by 22 campaign, an initiative of the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials that calls for increasing CDC funding by 22 percent by fiscal year 2022, is a good starting point.
Policymakers listen to the public, Holubowich told The Nations Health. If theyre not hearing from constituents that CDC matters, theyre not going to fund it. Thats why its important to take the presidents budget seriously and communicate why cuts are bad for public health. We need to talk to anyone who will listen about why public health matters.
To take action on public health funding, visit www.apha.org/policies-and-advocacy. To read the budget proposal, visit www.omb.gov/budget.
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)Trump administration budget cuts could become a major problem as coronavirus spreads
https://fortune.com/2020/02/26/coronavirus-covid-19-cdc-budget-cuts-us-trump/
The Trump administration recently requested $2.5 billion in emergency funds to prepare the U.S. for a possible widespread outbreak of coronavirus. Critics, though, are pointing out that money might not be necessary if the administration hadnt spent the past two years largely dismantling government units that were designed to protect against pandemics.
The cuts started in 2018, as the White House focused on eliminating funding to Obama-era disease security programs. In March of that year, Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer, whose job it was to lead the U.S. response in the event of a pandemic, abruptly left the administration and his global health security team was disbanded.
That same year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) was forced to slash its efforts to prevent global disease outbreak by 80% as its funding for the program began to run out. The agency, at the time, opted to focus on 10 priority countries and scale back in others, including China.
Subscribe to Fortunes Outbreak newsletter for a daily roundup of stories on the coronavirus outbreak and its impact on global business.
Also cut was the Complex Crises Fund, a $30 million emergency response pool that was at the secretary of states disposal to deploy disease experts and others in the event of a crisis. (The fund was created by former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.)
Overall in 2018, Trump called for $15 billion in reduced health spending that had previously been approved, as he looked at increasing budget deficits, cutting the global disease-fighting budgets of the CDC, National Security Council (NSC), Department of Homeland Security (DHS), and Health and Human Services (HHS) in the process.
The effects of those cuts are being felt today. While the CDC announced plans to test people with flu-like symptoms for COVID-19, those have been delayed and only three of the countrys 100 public-health labs have been able to test for coronavirus. The administrations request for additional funding came roughly two weeks after officials said HHS was almost out of funding for its response to the virus.
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)White House Asks Congress for Billions to Fight Coronavirus
The request arrived at the same time the Trump administration is proposing cuts to health programs across the government and as health officials across the nation struggle to keep up with costs.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/24/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-response.html
The administration also proposed cutting more than $85 million from the C.D.C.s National Center for Emerging and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases. The center directly works on outbreaks like the coronavirus, which is believed to have emerged from live animals in Wuhan, China.
Before the coronavirus outbreak, the Trump administration had already narrowed its epidemic work in countries around the world. Its latest budget request included $3 billion in cuts to global health programs, including a 53 percent cut to the World Health Organization and a 75 percent cut to the Pan American Health Organization.
Representative Nita M. Lowey of New York, the chairwoman of the House Appropriations Committee, called the request woefully insufficient to protect Americans from the deadly coronavirus outbreak.
It is profoundly disturbing that their answer now is to raid money Congress has designated for other critical public health priorities, she said in a statement. Worse still, their overall request still falls short of what is needed for an effective, comprehensive government-wide response.
Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the Democratic leader, said in a statement Monday night that the emergency request was too little too late.
That President Trump is trying to steal funds dedicated to fight Ebola which is still considered an epidemic in the Democratic Republic of the Congo is indicative of his towering incompetence and further proof that he and his administration arent taking the coronavirus crisis as seriously as they need to be, Mr. Schumer said.
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)Last month, in its 2021 budget, the Trump administration announced proposed cuts that would reduce CDC funding by 16 percent and slash $3 billion for global health programs.
In 2018, the National Security Councils global pandemic director left his post abruptly; then his entire team was disbanded by former national security adviser John Bolton. The Trump administration has yet to refill any of those positions, leaving huge vulnerabilities in our global pandemic preparedness.
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)Trump administration isn't backing off proposed cuts to CDC budget
In early February, the White House unveiled a budget that called for deep CDC cuts. Yesterday, the administration refused to back down.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-administration-isn-t-backing-proposed-cuts-cdc-budget-n1155411
It was a month ago yesterday when the White House released its official budget for the coming fiscal year, to the delight of Donald Trump's political opponents. Writing for Esquire, Charles P. Pierce took a look at the latest blueprint and concluded the document deserved to be seen as "political suicide."
As we discussed at the time, it was a reasonable assessment. Trump's budget is brutal towards Americans struggling most. It proposes slashing health care investments. It eyes cuts to education and environmental safeguards. It targets the same social-insurance programs -- so called "entitlements" -- that the president swore he'd never touch.
But there was another element that Team Trump probably didn't appreciate the significance of at the time: as the coronavirus threat was just starting to come into focus in early February, the White House recommended significant cuts to investments at the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention.
To be sure, this president had called for deep cuts to the CDC budget before, and Congress ignored those requests. But calling for CDC cuts in the midst of a global viral outbreak seemed especially bizarre.
Stranger still, the White House apparently hasn't changed its mind. The Hill reported yesterday:
Russ Vought, the acting director of the White House Office of Management and Budget, on Tuesday doubled down on proposed cuts to health services and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), despite the coronavirus outbreak.
Rep. Matt Cartwright (D-Pa.) reminded the White House budget director that the president's blueprint proposed cuts to both the CDC and the Infectious Diseases Rapid Response Reserve Fund. The Pennsylvania Democrat asked, "The question is today, as we sit here and we know about coronavirus and the impact it's taking on the people of the world and the economies of the world and the stock market and everything, as you sit here today, are you ready to take that back?"
It would've been easy for Vought to make some comments about "changing conditions" and "unexpected fiscal demands," but instead the White House budget director replied, "If you're asking if I'm sending up a budget amendment, no, I'm not sending up a budget amendment."
In other words, as far as Team Trump is concerned, the proposed cuts to the CDC have not changed.
Even some congressional Republicans have raised concerns with the direction. Nearly three years ago, Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) said in response to the administration's proposed budget cuts, "I promise you the president is much more likely in his term to have to deal with a pandemic than an act of terrorism. I hope he doesn't have to deal with either one, but you have to be ready to deal with both."
Yesterday, in a hearing with CDC Director Robert Redfield, the Oklahoma congressman didn't reference his earlier warning, but he reminded the administration that budget-cut requests like these are pointless. "This is not something that's likely to go away, and I think that's something again I hope the executive branch realizes over time, regardless of who's there," Cole said, adding, "So there's no sense sending us a budget that cuts things that we're not going to cut, and doesn't work with us in areas where we want to make investments."
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
hlthe2b
(102,288 posts)sites over minute errors that do not in any way diminsh the truth of the issue itself. We HAVE to be smarter than this and stop disseminating without checking further.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)I bookmarked this thread solely for the purpose of accessing the articles you posted. Thanks, again.
-Laelth
maxrandb
(15,333 posts)How about you stop apologizing and making excuses for him?