General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt occurred to me that some day soon many people with immunity...
...(because they had the virus and survived) will be able to walk freely through the world and mingle with other survivors while many other people will still be sheltered in place and in fear. If you were writing a sci-fi novel, this would be an interesting premise, but it's really going to happen.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,205 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Phoenix61
(17,006 posts)phylny
(8,380 posts)has to be tweaked every year. Would a coronavirus vaccine be different?
Phoenix61
(17,006 posts)up with a vaccine for them as they were managed before they became a pandemic. So would a vaccine for this version work for a future version? Probably not, but it would work for this one.
thesquanderer
(11,989 posts)...I think because it refers to a general type of illness rather than a single specific one. Measles is always measles, but there are many flus and they can change.
Girard442
(6,075 posts)...your immune system doesn't recognize the new mutation. Same thing with the common cold. I do know they recommend getting the DPT booster when one gets older, so immunity does fade with time. How fast? I think it varies.
AnotherDreamWeaver
(2,850 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)😳
AnotherDreamWeaver
(2,850 posts)8 strains of the coronavirus are circling the globe. Here's what clues they're giving scientists.
ADW
Igel
(35,317 posts)There are more than 8 mutations.
There are something like 8 strains (from 4-5 days ago, maybe 9 nine).
None of them have been shown to affect virulence. The L & S claim just happened to match perfectly the distinction between early cases in China that killed a lot people and those after Xi told China to get dealing with the virus. While that's suspicious in a country where everything's highly politicized, the claim was subjected to a masterful takedown showing that they had precisely zero basis for their conclusion. Assume your conclusion for setting up your analysis, and then derive your conclusion from your analysis. Classic, though in many cases subtle, fallacy. (They left the political CYA maneuver hanging in the air--were the authors just stupid, in too much of a hurry to actually think through their claim, or was it a political article intended to provide political cover?)
However, many mutations affect proteins that could trigger an immune response or replication point and so are important when designing a vaccine or an antiviral drug. Produce a vaccine targeting one of those proteins and you'd know that there's already a second strain out there your vaccine might not work on.
But there are more than 8 mutations. Most are point mutations and substitute one amino acid for another that serves the same function. In the 800+ genomes that have been sequenced, there's still useful historical information--how the virus dominant in one area got there? Some went straight from Wuhan, others mutated in Bavaria or Italy or someplace else before colonizing a new population.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)Or so I've read.
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)many of us may have had it already but didnt know. I wish they could test for antibodies or virus exposure.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Mike 03
(16,616 posts)get this over with. Not so sure that was a bright idea after reading some of the first-person stories from survivors.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Until I saw younger and fitter people than me on ventilators. No thanks.
jpak
(41,758 posts)Yup
winetourdriver01
(1,154 posts)I caught it early on, the doc says I'm immune now. I do walk around, I don't like (can't) sit on my butt in this apartment all day.
dweller
(23,640 posts)and how long were you sick with it?
just curious
✌🏼
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)winetourdriver01
(1,154 posts)There are three in my household, one of us brought it home early to mid January. The other two caught it almost immediately. I'm sixty nine, the others younger, fifty four and forty one. We didn't know it was the Trump Plague of course, but we all knew it was something none of us had before. I knew it was something different when it migrated to my lungs, the painful sensation as it went into my (tubes?), I don't know what else to call them, was creepy as hell. I dry coughed for maybe three weeks, before it stopped. Listen, I've been doing a lot of thinking, two points: This early strain may have been a bit less virulent, and I have an immune system that is quite strong- I shrugged off polio as a child.
dweller
(23,640 posts)i understood that was a symptom
very heavy congestion
✌🏼
winetourdriver01
(1,154 posts)Some, but apparently not as bad as some. I know the coughing kept me and everyone else awake, and it was exhausting.
onlyadream
(2,166 posts)Only once (last week) it hurt when I took a deep breath. No fever. I don't know what's causing this chronic cough, and I wonder if I have it (my town had over 30 with covid 19 - Long Island).
intrepidity
(7,302 posts)Most importantly, a serological test for antibodies?
I've read dozens and dozens of reports nearly identical to yours, and I also experienced the same, in January.
But since no testing was available, and because the sequencing data seem to support the narrative that it wasn't widespread here in the States that early, I'm left wondering what to make of it.
dweller
(23,640 posts)sick in Jan for several months, but have been self isolating anyway bc
i just do normally, but wondered if i had it ... still congested
no fever, some fatigue
i now have N95 masks so will wear every time i go out for supplies
✌🏼
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)The development and widespread distribution of one is utterly necessary to get us going again as a society.
intrepidity
(7,302 posts)That is, the technology exists because it is a standard research tool.
But not available for patient testing yet. Needs to be available asap.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Mostly working test.
That it works (kinda) in a lab is nice. But there is no real functional test.
intrepidity
(7,302 posts)greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Let me know when you or anybody you know has completed a test.
intrepidity
(7,302 posts)So yeah, will be first in line.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)intrepidity
(7,302 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,340 posts)You could end up with COVID, you could be in early stages right now and not know it, possibly never know it and still walk around getting OTHER PEOPLE KILLED.
If you didn't get a positive diagnosis, STAY THE FUCK HOME already.
Signed,
The entire medical community trying not to die.
Thank you.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)it's like to catch this virus, what to expect and any advice you could share.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)Which doesn't bode well for your health.
Please, check this out. Unless you were where the genome was very first sequenced here in the US at that time, or you traveled to a hotspot, the odds are you didn't have this virus. That's a myth being propagated around.
https://nextstrain.org/ncov
Be safe, ok? Please, don't take a random GP's lack of knowledge on epidemiology as a fact.
Journeyman
(15,035 posts)they remain taxicabs for the opportunistic coronavirus. It won't do to have a million "Corona Kevins" walking among us.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)"Experts unsure if 'cured' COVID-19 patients are reinfected or relapsed"
March 6 (UPI) -- Although the number of new cases of coronavirus continues to climb, well over half of those diagnosed with the disease have been declared fully recovered, according to data from the World Health Organization.
However, reports suggest a new subset of patients affected by the disease, known as COVID-19, may be emerging: A handful of the 60,000 or so people declared cured after treatment have been readmitted to hospitals days or weeks later because their symptoms have returned.
intrepidity
(7,302 posts)That is, there remained very low level of virus, below the detection threshold.
The question, though, is: why didn't their immune system fully quash the thing?
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)Patterson
(1,530 posts)Igel
(35,317 posts)It's unlikely. The numbers are small enough to be basically isolated and ignored, except for researchers.
They're doing a kind of test that gives false positives, so they repeat them. But the test picks up viral bits and disabled virus just as much as it picks up fully able, viable virus.
The test also gives false positives fairly often, and that's a different problem.
hurple
(1,306 posts)I've been sick twice since February. In February I had a fever and cough for a few days, but it ended as fast as it started just a few days after it begun. Now, I am getting over a sneezing, wheezing, coughing cold (without fever) that I've had for a week and a half.
Were either of those COVID? I don't know, I couldn't get tested because I wasn't showing severe enough symptoms.
So I'm sheltering in place scared silly that if I catch it, I'll be one of those unlucky 3% that wind up in the ground.
How will I ever know?
This is maddening!
blitzen
(4,572 posts)We need to do the same--but of course we are in no position to do so now because of Trump's negligence.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)of deaths, and most importantly WHO - what age and disability groups would be hit much harder than others -- back in January. Either retired and heavily on Social Security, Medicare and Veterans benefits or chronically ill or disabled and on Medicaid.
And they went on Fox and other RW media and told America it was just a cold and the contemptible scare stories were just Democratic lies to hurt Trump. And not only delayed all action until the deaths began but actively obstructed what they knew needed to be done.
SCantiGOP
(13,871 posts)He 'excpected' that one would get at least a year or two of immunity. They simply won't know till it can be studied, but the flu vaccine is tweaked every year because, while you would have immunity to the flu you had 5 years ago, it has already evolved into a new strain.
BusyBeingBest
(8,054 posts)What if it's like the chicken pox virus, and can erupt later when the immune system is weakened, like with shingles? What if it hides in body tissues or cells like that? Edit to add: what if it can give you cancer like certain other viruses (HPV)?
intrepidity
(7,302 posts)Retroviruses are those that can "hide", lay dormant for periods of time.
I do believe we know this is not the case.
BusyBeingBest
(8,054 posts)(Laurie Garrett) and she mentioned this possibility:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/why-testing-for-coronavirus-antibodies-will-matter.html
intrepidity
(7,302 posts)Yikes
ETA: Are you referring to this part of that interview?
If so, I'm fairly certain she's talking about the virus being present in low, undetectable levels. That not the same as what, for instance, a retrovirus does, where it actually hides in the host genome.
BusyBeingBest
(8,054 posts)or asymptomatic case of it, and then it lurks and waits until your immunity is lowered and then it REALLY gets ya.
Permanut
(5,610 posts)From 2011. Prophetic.
intrepidity
(7,302 posts)I'm surprised at how many think this is a surprising event.
Permanut
(5,610 posts)I was allowing for the remote possibility that it would never happen. Should have been treated as a certainty by those who could do material preparations, though, just like the major earthquake that will occur here in Oregon sooner or later..
intrepidity
(7,302 posts)Wasn't direct at you personally
Afromania
(2,768 posts)The sun changed colors and only the kids were able to adapt to the change that let them walk outside. The adults had to stay inside during the day or the sun would kill them. When this started getting going I immediately thought of it.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)is only temporary, you know.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,492 posts)In other words, and again reminding ourselves this is a novel virus, we don't yet know how strong the natural immunity will be in all populations, if any. The same degree of immunity developed for other SARS viruses does not necessarily apply to this one. We also don't know how resilient that immunity will be over a long period of time.
See:
The Doctor Who Helped Defeat Smallpox Explains What's Coming
Epidemiologist Larry Brilliant, who warned of pandemic in 2006, says we can beat the novel coronavirusbut first, we need lots more testing.
Link: https://www.wired.com/story/coronavirus-interview-larry-brilliant-smallpox-epidemiologist/amp
Excerpt:
Now the unthinkable is here, and Brilliant, the Chairman of the board of Ending Pandemics, is sharing expertise with those on the front lines. We are a long way from 100 million deaths due to the novel coronavirus, but it has turned our world upside down. Brilliant is trying not to say I told you so too often. But he did tell us so, not only in talks and writings, but as the senior technical advisor for the pandemic horror film Contagion, now a top streaming selection for the homebound. Besides working with the World Health Organization in the effort to end smallpox, Brilliant, who is now 75, has fought flu, polio, and blindness; once led Googles nonprofit wing, Google.org; co-founded the conferencing system the Well; and has traveled with the Grateful Dead.
Also, please mull on this fact for a moment: everyone like myself who are high risk will have to remain in near-isolation until a vaccine is available and that could stretch out as long as 18 months to two years before it's widely available. If and when when younger people do develop natural immunity, that will force my sector of the population to be even more cautious (because they will then become more careless).
Many medical professionals are throwing out a lot of statements that include "we think" or "we believe" this or that relative to many aspects of this pandemic. Unfortunately, many people are taking those statements as factual confirmation of the concept being discussed. We should take those statements with a grain of salt (and don't bet our lives on it) until they are 1.) known to be authoritative on the topic and 2.) are willing to say "I know".
KY........
appalachiablue
(41,140 posts)screening before too long. I read an article recently but can't recall where it was just now.