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Pluvious

(4,319 posts)
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 10:26 PM Apr 2020

LAT: "Op-Ed: COVID-19 shows that what we're doing to animals is killing us, too"

About two-thirds of emerging infectious diseases in humans — including COVID-19, SARS, MERS, Ebola, HIV, Zika, H1N1, cholera and almost all recent epidemics — came from animals. And 70% of those originated in wildlife.

Pathogens have leaped from animals to humans for eons, but the pace of this spillover has increased rapidly over the last century. As 7.8 billion people on this planet radically alter ecosystems and raise, capture and trade animals at an unprecedented scale, “the road from animal microbe to human pathogen” has turned into a “highway,” as the journalist Sonia Shah has written.

The growing body of scientific research is clear: Diseases like COVID-19 are an expected consequence of how we’re choosing to treat animals and their habitats.

By changing the nature and frequency of human-animal interactions, our actions — through the wildlife trade, deforestation, land conversion, industrial animal farming, the burning of fossil fuels, and more — propel the emergence and transmission of novel and known human infectious diseases.


https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-04-02/coronavirus-pandemics-animals-habitat-ecology
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LAT: "Op-Ed: COVID-19 shows that what we're doing to animals is killing us, too" (Original Post) Pluvious Apr 2020 OP
K&R! SheltieLover Apr 2020 #1
More fallout from global warming n/t cyclonefence Apr 2020 #2
Both are the end effects of our desire to consume everything in our path relayerbob Apr 2020 #11
Nature is not to be trifled with superpatriotman Apr 2020 #3
Interesting Dios Mio Apr 2020 #4
I'm open to the argument. Igel Apr 2020 #5
I keep seeing you making sense and posting good logic all over this place. Kali Apr 2020 #8
+1. yonder Apr 2020 #9
Thanks for this post. byronius Apr 2020 #6
Thank you for this. Going vegetarian would solve this problem. Coventina Apr 2020 #7
Nope, it wouldnt as we will still have viruses making the leap from a different species to us cstanleytech Apr 2020 #10
It would make it extremely rare. n/t Coventina Apr 2020 #14
No, most respectfully you are assuming it would but we really don't know that it would. cstanleytech Apr 2020 #16
Except that all these recent virii have been traced back to Chinese animal markets. n/t Coventina Apr 2020 #18
Viruses are not just limited to that area of the world and cstanleytech Apr 2020 #19
Except that all these recent virii have been traced back to Chinese animal markets. n/t Coventina Apr 2020 #20
Good luck trying to convince anyone outside the western world ansible Apr 2020 #12
Um, it's not just Westerners that are vegetarians. n/t Coventina Apr 2020 #15
I'm a vegetarian so I would love to think that would solve it renate Apr 2020 #13
No there would still be issues with animals peeing and pooping on your crops because cstanleytech Apr 2020 #17

Igel

(35,359 posts)
5. I'm open to the argument.
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 11:33 PM
Apr 2020

I just think it's wrong.

Going for bushmeat and frequently wet markets are the same thing as what we used to have in the US, with a lot of folks in the hinterland killing and eating squirrel and possum and armadillo. I'm sure there's an equivalent in South America, and Native Americans didn't have just 2-4 critters that they ate and nothing else.

Why zoonotic diseases didn't infect some of those people has to be a mystery.

Or perhaps they *did* infect those consumers of divers critters. However, with fewer people there were fewer jumps from critter to human. Isolation limited their spread--you may infect those in your neck of the woods, but you didn't get out of there very often. Even now there are diseases that aren't widespread--and some that have been kicking around for a while in backwaters that suddenly blossom.

There are a variety of rhinoviruses, coronavirses, and strains of influenza. It's not like they've been around for 100,000 years. They came from someplace.

Chikungunya was described in the 1950s, but it's unlikely it was discovered the year it made the jump.

HIV dates to the 1920s. Think about it--it was 60 years before it was noticed. Because it jumped from simians and circulated locally. I'm sure it got out from time to time, but didn't spread.

I'd accept that the frequency has increased. But a lot of diseases that jumped a while back are new-to-us. The "what we're doing to animals" is mostly a reversion to a prior wish: Here's yet another example that can be used to show how bad we are.

Except how bad we are now is how bad we've been since forever, and you wind up with people arguing for indigenous customs and practices while arguing that this is a modern practice.

Kali

(55,021 posts)
8. I keep seeing you making sense and posting good logic all over this place.
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 11:51 PM
Apr 2020

what's up with that?

cstanleytech

(26,319 posts)
10. Nope, it wouldnt as we will still have viruses making the leap from a different species to us
Fri Apr 3, 2020, 01:01 AM
Apr 2020

even if every person on the world went vegetarian.
You can of course argue that it would slow the number of such leaps down due to a more restricted chance of it happening but it will not entirely prevent it.

cstanleytech

(26,319 posts)
16. No, most respectfully you are assuming it would but we really don't know that it would.
Fri Apr 3, 2020, 11:07 AM
Apr 2020

After all consider the fact that even if we all went vegetarian we still have to grow the food and that takes a lot of land and water which means we still will come into contact with other species.
The only way truly to avoid contact with other species would be to leave the planet.

cstanleytech

(26,319 posts)
19. Viruses are not just limited to that area of the world and
Fri Apr 3, 2020, 12:08 PM
Apr 2020

a virus leaping from an animal to human and creating another pandemic can happen anywhere in the world.

renate

(13,776 posts)
13. I'm a vegetarian so I would love to think that would solve it
Fri Apr 3, 2020, 01:42 AM
Apr 2020

I suspect that humane farming, rather than keeping live animals in overcrowded conditions, peeing and pooping on each other and transmitting respiratory droplets and body fluids like they did in the Wuhan wet market, would probably suffice.

It should be the minimum standard of care for animals that are going to be killed and eaten. It’s literally the least that humans should do.

cstanleytech

(26,319 posts)
17. No there would still be issues with animals peeing and pooping on your crops because
Fri Apr 3, 2020, 11:12 AM
Apr 2020

of birds not to mention the various burrowing and foraging animals.
Unless of course you did all your crops within an enclosed environment which might be problematic due to a large amount of materials you would need to build that many enclosures.

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