General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGretchen Whitmer is off my VP pick list.
She has deemed gardening supplies, plants, seeds as UNessential. She is getting some bad advice.
https://www.michiganradio.org/post/garden-centers-large-stores-must-close-under-governors-order
An extended "stay at home" order by Governor Gretchen Whitmer bans keeping garden sections of stores open for businesses with more than 50,000 square feet. But many nurseries and garden centers contacted by Michigan Radio are interpreting the rule as a ban on selling fruit and vegetable plants. Workers at greenhouses and nurseries say it's confusing and makes no sense.
The governor wants people to restrict their trips from home to getting the essentials such as fuel and food. Large retail garden centers have been ordered to close temporarily.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Nobody needs to be using gardening as an excuse to get out of the house and its unlikely anyone will have time to bring in a home garden crop before restrictions are lifted anyway. This is a bunch of hobbyists upset about restricting their hobby.
Also, thats silly, nonsensical reason to dump someone off a VP list.
Zoonart
(11,887 posts)Demand for seed and vegetable starts are up all over the country due to the fact that people are planting victory gardens in anticipation of breakdown of the food supply chain and further self isolation orders.
Many of the major greenhouse ranges that plant the seed to grow on the plant starts, are scrambling to switch their orders from ornamental plantings to vegetable starts.
Plants and seed absolutely essential.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Nobody needs to be going to a gardening center right now. Period.
Hobbies can wait. Most people dont know WTF theyre doing with that shit anyway. Will be a bunch of dead plant matter in the ground by the end of May. Victory gardens my ass.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,899 posts)because for many it's not just a hobby. People are growing gardens in anticipation of food shortages later this summer when it becomes obvious that there won't be enough workers to harvest crops. Community gardens are being cultivated in low-income neighborhoods that are "food deserts" where people have no access to healthful food. There is a huge community of Hmong farmers who lease land just south of the city to grow vegetables for farmers' markets (I don't know how those will operate this year) and grocery stores, and their livelihoods depend on being able to get seeds for their crops.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Hobbies can wait.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,899 posts)What's so hard to understand about that?
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Kaleva
(36,360 posts)FoxNewsSucks
(10,435 posts)It's spring. That means time to plant. What better way to spend time at home (and minimize trips to the store for produce down the road) than growing one's own food.
Some people may consider it a hobby, but it's a damn good thing to be able to do.
panader0
(25,816 posts)having tomatoes, peppers, onions, potatoes, etc could be very important.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)If we are reliant on home garden hobbyists to provide our food supply we are all already dead.
panader0
(25,816 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)You can go buy the picked over, handled produce at the store, k?
Those of us who know how to grow our own food will continue to enjoy fresh picked veggies right here at home.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)We're going to eat tomato sandwiches and fried potatoes while you starve. We'll be the ants and you the grasshopper.
obamanut2012
(26,158 posts)By your logic, all automotive stores should be closed, too, and everyone has to go to the "auto store' (ie garages and dealerships) to get their car fixed. How do I know you aren't just restoring a junker for funsies?
You need to really explain yourself. Wow.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Your hobby can wait.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)in order to save lives.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Very odd.
I have lots of hobbies; working in my garden is one of the best!
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)Kaleva
(36,360 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,899 posts)which aren't necessarily the best ones anyhow.
Kaleva
(36,360 posts)I suspect the OP doesn't live in Michigan
Amishman
(5,559 posts)Gardening is time sensitive, waiting two months makes it too late for many plants.
Home gardens are extra important right now:
they add extra food capacity at a time when our food supply is strained and could easily continue to be disrupted
they are very positive for people's mental states - we are going to start running into psychological strain from this confinement.
It also can be a cost effective way of stretching the grocery budget - fresh produce from the supermarket isn't exactly cheap. We have a lot of people who will be under financial strain all year.
Want more reasons? I can keep them coming if you like.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Im sure you and others wont mind getting your gardening stuff online then rather than making an unnecessary trip to a gardening center.
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #56)
HarlanPepper This message was self-deleted by its author.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I get baby trees from the Arbor Foundation.
I have dozens of catalogs where you can buy live plants. Im happy to share the names if youre interested.
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)we did that all the time when I was growing up.
Even if annual vegetables (the kind of thing I am suggesting is essential) were available by mail they are so fragile I would be reluctant to trust it. I have to pick through the ones at the nursery pretty carefully to find ones that I believe are hardy enough.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Fruit trees are available online though.
I buy most of my butterfly/hummingbird plants that way.
Retrograde
(10,164 posts)(Territorial is based in Oregon). Those are just off the top of my head - I recycled the other catalogs I got this year.
BTW, tomatoes are tender perennials: they'll grow and produce fruit as long as the frosts hold off (although the fruits don't ripen well after mid-November, at least in my yard)
MissB
(15,812 posts)As a middle ground solution a no contact ordering and pickup system can be instituted. Im buying several items - mostly pet but some garden supplies- using two different stores.
One store has you call in and they walk around and grab the items and ring you up, then you call once youve arrived curbside and the put it in the trunk.
The other has an online order system and they email you when the order is ready to pickup. Again, you pull up curbside and they put it in your trunk.
(Im a gardener, and while I start pretty much all veggies from seed, there are items I tend to pick up at this time of year- seed potatoes are one item. I start tomatoes from seed but if I didnt then Id need to get some soonish or else I wouldnt be making pasta sauce next year. I grow enough to can and freeze)
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Goodheart
(5,346 posts)Don't be selfish.
pamdb
(1,332 posts)We're talking less than 3 weeks!!! Jeez, we could get snow this week. You can't plant anything anyway in Michigan until
the middle of May and that's if we're lucky.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)I expect this to last for months. As for planting now, I such onions and peas.
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)is going to be questionable. I hope they don't close the garden centers where I live, because I at least want tomatoes. Whitmer's wrong, on this point.
MissMillie
(38,587 posts)We're counting on our garden for most of our fresh produce this year.
Otherwise nothing but frozen and canned veg for us.
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)about buying some seeds or a flat of tomatoes if you keep your distancing up and wear a mask/gloves, same as with all the other stores we can still go to. Also, I really resent officials trying to tell me exactly what I am allowed to buy and what is "non-essential" to me--especially for seasonal items like gardening supplies. That really chaps my ass. I do mail-order from nurseries, but I need mulch and mushroom compost and other bulky items, and if I can still drive up to my local nursery, or Home Depot or Tractor Supply or Ace, and get those things then I will continue to do so.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Shes making the case that god damn tomato plants arent worth the risk of infecting even one more person on a non essential shopping trip. If that makes her a dummy then so be it.
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)when she thinks she can dictate that I can walk into Lowes and get a microwave or toilet plunger but not a fucking flat of tomatoes. Glad I don't live in MI.
FBaggins
(26,775 posts)You can make far fewer trips to the grocery store if you aren't replacing perishable vegetables because you grow them yourself.
And plenty of people produce enough to share with neighbors.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Unlike some folks here I dont pretend to be an epidemiologist. She seems to think its not worth the risk. I support Democratic governors trying to do their best to protect people in their state.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)Everyone makes mistake, even Democrats. The difference between us and the New National Socialist Party (GOP) is we hold our leaders accountable and seek to have them correct mistakes.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Literally EVERYTHING?
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)We eat a ton of food from ours. It averts many grocery shopping trips because it keeps producing, while fresh produce starts spoiling the minute it's picked and must be replenished regularly.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Most people who grow their own vegetables know exactly what theyre doing.
I grow most of my own vegetables and have for years. Usually have more than enough to give away. I also have chickens, and my lovely ladies keep me well supplied with eggs. I do have to go the feed store to get their feed, even though theyre free range.
I can buy garden essentials at most feed stores.
Im so sorry youve never known the joy and pride of growing your own food. Thats a shame.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Interesting profile.
obamanut2012
(26,158 posts)at140
(6,110 posts)As a retired senior, sitting on my back porch and looking at the green grass and trees is how I spend many hours while listening to recorded music.
So the garden supply stores are an important part of my life.
Bev54
(10,082 posts)To be picked up by car outside the premises. There are ways to do this.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Kaleva
(36,360 posts)There are many places smaller then 50k square feet still open for business.
pnwmom
(109,009 posts)She didn't ban the sale of seeds and plants.
Zoonart
(11,887 posts)exboyfil
(17,865 posts)I am planning on putting in a Victory Garden. That might not be a bad move for anyone who is capable of doing it. Who says there won't be food disruptions post-lock down.
Seeds are even included in Food Stamps.
I agree it is a silly reason for excluding her as VP, but the optics does look bad. The same kind of restrictions could be applied to these purchases as purchases for food.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Okay. Well have at it then. Go forth and infect or get infected. My ass is staying home.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)Indykatie
(3,697 posts)Disclosure: Whitmer is number 1 on my VP wish list by the way followed by Harris. I have no number 3.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)I think there are different types of people who garden. There are those that are not very serious about it, but there are a lot of people that that's how they eat. I know a lot of them. In MN we have lots of community garden plots that people use to feed their families. This is especially true with a lot of the Hmong community here in Saint Paul.
It IS a food source for a lot of people. And an important one. So being that it is a food source then it should be treated like the grocery stores. If someone has a garden going then when their garden comes time to harvest during the summer and fall, when we may be likely to have a second wave of corona virus, they will need to make less trips to the stores.
Here's the thing, all of your posts here in this thread are super confrontational. I get that we are all pretty angry or otherwise emotional but to the point of acting outwardly jerkish? Seems unproductive to me. Do we need people going to pick out marigolds and pansies? Absolutely not. But being able to get vegetable plants doesn't seem at all ridiculous to me. Not when the stores are otherwise open for other things already. There can be restrictions put on the stores no? And there can be admittance restrictions put on them as well right?
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Particularly those who are women, and who have been attacked by Dump. Sue me.
demmiblue
(36,903 posts)+ 1000
Gretchen Whitmer is an amazing governor. She has a bright future ahead.
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)If you are growing food (which is essential - and which will be essential during any future shut-downs), you cannot wait until after the shut down to get the plants in. By then it will be too late. It is not about bringing in a hame garden crop before the restrictions are lifted - it is about ensuring there will be food when it is needed. You can't just plant when you feel like it and demand the weather cooperate and extend the season (for some crops) or delay the heat (for others).
Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #52)
HarlanPepper This message was self-deleted by its author.
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)Suggesting that we not pick and choose which victims to believe based on who they accuse, yes.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Are you voting for Biden in November, or have you not made a determination yet?
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)Even if it turns out to be true, he is better on every other issue than the cretin in the white house, with the added bonus that he is in full control of his mental faculties, and willing to be a team player when he doesn't have all the answers. I hope it is not true - but I won't dismiss it out of hand because that kind of dismissal (and character assassination) is what happens to rape survivors all the time.
But I do have a friend in Florida who is struggling with his vote because of this accusation (and another in NY, where she can cast her vote for someone else - or not vote and it doesn't matters.
The more the Democratic party insists this is just a Putin operative, rather than treating it as we would treat an accusation against any person other than a prominent Democrat, the harder it will be for my Florida friend to mark the ballot for Biden - in a state where every vote matters.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)People always say they want to get to the bottom of these alleged incidents but as we have seen in the past there is no bottom, no crossing the finish line where truth is concerned. Not when issues like this intersect with politics. We live in a culture where facts dont matter. Thats why what you suggest is foolish and unrealistic.
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)I'm not willing to perpetuate that game, merely because the person accused is someone we like.
There is a difference between vetting the issue - including a response from Biden - and immediately lashing out at the accuser as a Putin puppet or someone being paid, and (as you are trying to do here by dragging a completely unrelated discussion into this thread) trying to intimidate anyone who suggets the allegation be treated as anything other than a political attack.
Remember Bill Cosby - those allegations couldn't possibly be true, until there wer so many they cold not be ignored. We ignore allegations of rape and sexual assault at our own peril - and perpetuate a culture that tolerates and, to some extent encourages, rape.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)To accuse anyone and everyone who questions Tara Reade's story, and discusses the facts that are coming out that harm her credibility as being anti-woman for political expediency is as insulting as calling anyone who believed those women accusing Cosby a racist.
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)(I don't spend time in the primary discussions - so it may have been discussed there).
When I entered the thread, there was the OP (which was relatively neutral), and one post supporting taking the accusation seriously. There were perhaps a half dozen others - some of which were character assassination posts. None of which (at the time I first posted) discusssed the accusation itself, or whether they believed the accusation. They were all politically tainted bits of character assassination. That is not reflective of listening, discussing the facts, and coming to a reasoned outcome.
At least half of the "problems" with her story that were articulated - AFTER - I suggested we should not dismiss this out of hand (in response to the half a dozen posts that clearly did) were identical to tactics used for decades to dismiss accusations of sexual abuse and rape: delayed reporting, details changed, no one else has reported anything similar, she didn't name him initially, and more character assassination - not quite she's a whore (the classic), but she's a Putin lover (or is bought by Putin, etc.).
I have not seen anything on DU approaching a reasoned exploration of this accusation. I have not, in fact, seen one anywhere. The NY Times article was the closest - and the response to it was not to discuss the mertis of the accusation - but to dismiss it out of hand.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)You aren't looking, that's why, and you have demonstrated that you consider any statement that questions Reade's story at all as being anti-woman, "character assasination" and dismissive of all rape survivors - and therefore "unreasoned."
You are supporting my observation that you are indeed not looking at this from an objective POV, but one that is entrenched and resistant to any facts or data that doesn't support it.
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)There have been none. So you are wrong.
I have not been watching the primary dicusssions, aside from when I'm called there for jury duty.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)You are describing any discussion where someone posts valid questions about Reade's credibility as "unreasoned," which is wrong.
It shows your bias, not anyone else's here on DU. You are scolding those who don't agree with you for being something that you yourself are displaying.
Do go on.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Then why are you worried that discussions here will make it hard for your friend in Florida to vote for Biden?
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)People bring ideas from outside here, ideas from here are echoed in the broader community.
How many times has a post here started, I saw this on FB; one of my FB friends, etc? Even if people don't expressly say, "I heard it on DU," if you think what is discussed here does not leave the walls of DU you are naive. So yes the discussions among Democrats and progressives anywhere, including on DU, that tend to throw the accuser under the bus rather than engaging in a serious exploration make it harder for my friend to vote for Biden.
And -not that it is relevant - I don't know whether my friend is on DU or not.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Does your friend believe that what is posted on DU concerning Reade is influential enough that it would cause her to not vote for Biden?
Because that was the clear implication of your post.
If you want to backpedal, fine, but it's right there for everyone here to read.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)Or do you just intend to play games and misdirect away from anyone taking your incredibly foolish post to task?
yonder
(9,682 posts)HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Whats yours?
Beringia
(4,316 posts)That's like McCarthyism, linking of a person to another bad person or ideology, and then trying to blacklist them in some way. How awful.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,769 posts)What better way to avoid trips to the grocery store than to grow your own herbs, potatoes, green peppers, tomatoes... You know, the perishables that you need in cooking, but perish all too quickly?
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)on weekly trips to the grocery store, instead of having them in your backyard, virus free, all summer.
matt819
(10,749 posts)We are just starting our gardens here - home garden, maybe 3,000 square feet of gardens. (And when I say we, I mean my wife. My role is to say, good idea, or yes, those are germinating quite nicely.) Our plan is to grow for ourselves, as usual, can more than usual, and donate more to the community kitchen. For small investments in soil and seeds, and a tremendous investment in time, we save thousands of dollars every year.
You can call it a hobby, but we call it essential to our health and well-being, even more so now when we are in lockdown. You cannot tell people who are stuck in their owns that, oh, and by the way, you can't get stuff you need to plant your garden, that's obscene. Plus. . . the garden centers also carry pet food and equine supplies, which are essential, unless you want our dogs, cats, and horses to die for lack of food.
I know lines have to be drawn, and arguments can probably be made for any number of products and stores, but on this one Whitmer is wrong.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)retail outlets that sell gardening supplies should be closed. That virus can kill you in a few days. Going temporarily without a home grown garden probably won't cause a quick death so it may be the lesser of two evils.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)The vegetables grown reduce the need to crowd into grocery stores. But if not planted at the right time there is no gardening.
And make no mistake, the grocery is the highest risk place most people will encounter.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 13, 2020, 04:13 PM - Edit history (1)
if absolutely necessary.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)I can put in lettuce and spinach now and also grow radishes in 30 days. later on peas, beans, and squash will be prevalent, followed by tomatoes, potatoes, carrots, and onions.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)I would not worry about whether or not I have fresh produce a month from now from my garden. I would rather worry about catching the virus today and dying next week.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)Everything else is growing from seed or being dropped off by delivery from a truck.
Peregrine Took
(7,417 posts)I think gardening is a wonderful and productive thing to do in these dark times.
Whitmer has taken a foolish position.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Your hobby isnt worth risking infections and the peril that can come with them. The zucchini will be there when the restrictions are lifted. then we can all home hobby garden ourselves into soylent green plant people. Itll be lit.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)On having trouble understanding the value of staying at home during a pandemic? Im pretty clear eyed on that. But hey, you have a nice day at Home Depot!
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)I order any gardening supplies I need by phone, looking at live video provided by the nursery staff if needed and then drive there for contactless curbside pickup. Home Depot is for amateurs.
Johnny2X2X
(19,193 posts)This is what's hurting our side, purity tests.
Whitmer has been fantastic here in MI, really stepped up. I think this part of her business ban was not rolled out in the best way.
snowybirdie
(5,241 posts)she will call to apologize to you soon.
LakeArenal
(28,858 posts)It was always fabulous.
This seems nit picking something global.
xmas74
(29,676 posts)I lived in the UP for a few years as a child. I remember playing King of the Mountain on the compacted plowed snow in parking lots in late April.
Seeds are available online, as is soil. The only thing that should be happening there right now is starting indoor sets.
Many people have no idea that Michiganders can't reliably start gardening before Memorial Day. Yes, they can and do start seedlings inside if that's how they want to begin their garden. Successfully starting seeds indoors is rather difficult for the average person.
Right now this is a way to reduce browsing at the big box stores. If the local hardware has seeds no one will stop the sale if they really want them.
Parts of MI are nowhere near ready to garden.
demmiblue
(36,903 posts)xmas74
(29,676 posts)Those pictures make me miss it.
Phoenix61
(17,021 posts)section of Lowes, HD, Walmart etc. Most of the strictly garden stores I know are much smaller than 50,000 sq ft. They have lots of outside space and small structures where you pay and can purchase incidentals.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,788 posts)Going around trying to outfit their summer cabins. We have two hardware stores in town, well one is actually a building supply company. They came up here and would not obey the signs posted about just coming in for essential items...not paint...not home decor...not bringing in the entire family...kids were just running around unsupervised.
Both closed because of those people...locals now must call in and ask if we can buy what we need and they will deem it essential or not.
People would just be milling around looking at flowers wondering if this one or that one would look better in their non-essential flower bed.
We understand that those seasonal visitors drive our economy but sheltering in place does not mean driving your entire family to your summer cabin or campsite.
The demographics in, at least, my area show a heavy leaning to older folks 55 and up is a big segment of our county.
So we think shes doing a great job.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Sounds like she saw right through this bullshit excuse to go shopping.
tblue37
(65,502 posts)N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,788 posts)Have had the seeds since last fall or even before. Its the hobby gardener that now believes they have the time to plant and harvest seeds sown in Michigan at this time. Most should have been in germination by now. Start seeds 4 to 6 weeks before last frost. Generally about the middle to end of May.
MerryBlooms
(11,773 posts)They'll be ready to go into the ground end of this week. Harvested seeds from last year, what I added for this year, I bought early February. I was short on beans, so I raided the dry bean soup bag in the pantry.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Of course this is a really great time for people to get gardens in and into gardening. Especially up there. So there must be reasons.
Of course, our VP preferences are, and should be, irrelevant anyway. We cannot know who Biden feels could best be the friend and assistant president he was to Obama.
nocoincidences
(2,231 posts)We don't know what kind of food scarcity we are going to experience in the next few months.
I understand that city people might see gardening as "just a hobby" but others might take that as an elitest point of view.
We have been working on a backyard garden since the beginning of March. Amazon has backlogged orders for GMO seeds.
I think politicians who are out of touch with that part of American life need to grow some awareness, quickly, because crops are being destroyed in the fields right now, and lots of people are looking at ways to make sure they can still get vegetables and fruit.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/04/13/farmers-destroy-food-banks-lemon-ctn-vpx.cnn
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Buying vegetable seeds is no more a sin than buying food! One could argue it can prevent multiple food trips over the summer/early fall.
LisaM
(27,843 posts)They won't be planting vegetable gardens now.
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)That's what a lot of gardeners do with tomatoes and peppers, especially in places that don't have a long growing season.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)a smaller scale for cosmos seedlings I started too early, but they got so horribly spindly no matter how close I moved them to the light (was just using random household fluorescent bulbs over tray). Have a ping-pong table in the basement no one's using anymore, LOL.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)I have one for seed starting, but my best setup is a bunch of 2x3s built to sit on a table and suspend a 4 bulb T5 fixture. I can get very stocky tomatoes from it.
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)but for next year I'd like some nice early tomatoes (usually I just pick up some plants in May/June) .
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)I don't mess with his chop saw, LOL. Do you have the surrounding white walls for reflective purposes or is that coincidence?
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)I have the compact tower and a small tent with a super bright LED fixture. In years past I did some winter vegetable crops, but decided to not do it the last 2 years.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)It's already very late in the outdoor planting season in VA.
LisaM
(27,843 posts)And it's not a particularly short growing season.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)I have similar issues in CT, though I use some "season pushing" tech to get stuff out earlier.
Response to nocoincidences (Original post)
elocs This message was self-deleted by its author.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)We're not talking two months, we're talking 3 weeks. You can't plant anytingin Michigan until mid May at best. Hell, we've had snow
in michigan in may, we might get some this week. So maybe this year you don't do seeds, just plants.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,446 posts)Seriously?
Personally, however, I imagine most people in Michigan probably want her to stay put to help continue to manage things there (plus they just got her as governor), but I will let the people in Michigan speak for themselves.
Docreed2003
(16,883 posts)Every asshole and their sister was at our local
Lowe's buying up spring plants in the garden center. I get it, weather was nice....people are bored...let's go do stuff around the house. Every one of those people exposing or being exposed to this virus. It's insane.
I support anyone who wants to grow their own garden, but most of the folks rushing into their local garden centers aren't doing this to put food on the table.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Were you there?
Docreed2003
(16,883 posts)The lines were outside the store and you could see people taking loads of flowers to their cars. Yeah....I saw it, plus folks took pictures and posted all over or local social media pages calling out these people. I have an essential job and have worked damn near every day for the past several weeks dealing with Covid patients, so yeah this crap is infuriating. Unfortunately, I live in a state where our governor has been utterly clueless in dealing with this pandemic.
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)If they were walking out with a shelf system, or a light fixture, or a can of paint, that'd be OK?
Docreed2003
(16,883 posts)Staying at home and having time on your hands doesn't excuse being able to go out and get a can of paint or a shelf system or anything else.. stay the hell at home. Every time you go out for anything that isn't life or death you are putting yourself and others at risk! Just stay home!
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)I get what I can get, when I can get it, the safest way possible. For example, I got some rodent-repellent items at Tractor Supply, curbside pickup, to place in my motorhome so I don't have a mouse invasion and have a potentially costly problem. Anyone pointing at what I buy and deeming it frivolous or essential makes me want to tell them to mind their own business.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Ive seen threads here about people visiting multiple stores looking for cookies, meat, Parmesan cheese, etc.
If I go in to buy my chicken feed, no reason not to grab flowers if I want to.
If liquor stores are deemed essential, then so should stores that provide HEALTHY diversion, imo.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Bees are in great peril right now. Though Im more of a veggie gardener, I do grow flowers for the bees, butterflies, and birds.
Its one big ecosystem out there and all connected.
Ill keep doing my planting.
DarthDem
(5,257 posts)Because of that?
She 's not on "my" "list" either, but that's because she's needed where she is and is doing a fantastic job, this one confusing order notwithstanding.
Response to nocoincidences (Original post)
pinkstarburst This message was self-deleted by its author.
llmart
(15,557 posts)I'm an Advanced Master Gardener who has worked in garden centers (not the big box type) and if I were still employed in that capacity I'd probably quit before I'd deal with the types of scenarios one who works there deals with. Lots of questions face to face, lots of crowding, etc. Those plants require people to load and unload constantly during season. They're not grown onsite. They have to get to the centers somehow and that involves trucking/drivers/cashiers, etc.
Plus, the pay is absolutely abysmal and I wouldn't risk my life and health for that.
Many plants can be purchased online or started with seeds. But here in Michigan we would never get busy until Mothers Day or after. I clearly remember one Mothers Day working in sleet and wind and cold.
I'm quite sure Governor Whitmer got input from people in the industry and those who work in garden centers before she made her decision. She's a pretty brilliant and competent person.
Renew Deal
(81,883 posts)Labeling gardening supplies as non-essential is completely disqualifying.
brooklynite
(94,792 posts)I suspect you'll be disappointed.
LisaM
(27,843 posts)This is as bad as Megan McCain claiming Whitmer said you can't buy car seats.
There are many places you can buy plants and seeds in Michigan, even though it's not planting season yet. Just not in big box stores temporarily.
gibraltar72
(7,513 posts)My son in law works at Menards. Whole families were going looking for ornamentals not looking to start a vegetable garden. He said it was a place to congregate. They padlocked the area because these people were some of the worst most entitled. and would not abide by the rules.
Takket
(21,644 posts)lowes and home depot here (i live in michigan) will not let you buy seeds for pickup or delivery. They needs to change that and there is no problem....... i don't know if they just aren't set up IT wise for that, or if they have simply sold out of them. there may have been a run on seeds when the crisis hit and maybe they just don't have any right now. but regardless i did see them on amazon so anyone who wants to plant can order from there.
Grins
(7,239 posts)EndlessWire
(6,573 posts)So what if people are inexperienced as they attempt to sprout their seeds? At least they are not buying guns to steal food in the future. Trump is attempting to destroy our food sources. Why, I don't know. But he's mucking about. It is wise for people to attempt to be self sufficient at this time.
If you have a family, you will do what it takes to feed them. If you have never been hungry, you are blessed. But, those that know what hunger does to your thinking, may be inclined to buy seeds.
I ordered seeds online. Those seeds are not due in until mid May. But, I could wait all that time and then they could cancel the order. (Hell, I ordered a music album for comfort, and IT got cancelled. So, I won't be ordering anything nonessential even online.)
As far as who will be VP, I want a female. I like Warren. But, Joe won't be listening to me!
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)are available in the safest manner possible.
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)And "water". And the items needed to prepare this stuff--essential, or no? Are you against picking up charcoal for grilling, for example? Does water include: soft drinks, juice, beer, coffee? You see how this argument starts going down a ridiculous road, right?
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)right now. If the experts determine that stores that sell charcoal should be shut down in order to protect lives so be it.
And of course, things
like beer and soft drinks are not essential but if they can be safely purchased then go for it, but if not you should do without
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)sold where you buy your "necessities" is going to expose people to risk, more than going to the snack aisle or driving to the beer outlet? Of course not. But if you read further in some of these posts, you realize that her order isn't really about disease safety at all, it's about putting a thumb on the economic scale. It's about making consumers drive to and purchase from smaller retail centers to boost their profits vs. allowing people to conveniently add things to their curbside orders at Lowes or Walmart. That has a whole new set of issues around it, good and bad.
zackymilly
(2,375 posts)OnDoutside
(19,982 posts)good option in the circumstances.
demmiblue
(36,903 posts)I can see both sides on this issue.
I had to go to Home Depot to find something for cleaning/unclogging my kitchen drain a week or two ago. Home Depot did a great job managing customer flow into the store. However, many people were browsing around like it was a Sunday morning stroll. If the garden center were to be open, this type of behavior would be far worse, thus endangering employees.
But, I also see the point that gardening supplies are essential for those who use these products for sustenance. Though, I do feel most people would use this as an opportunity for landscaping wants, not sustenance needs.
Perhaps some tweaking can be done...I don't know. Though we still have time regarding the growing season, so I am not going to get too worried about the situation.
Goodheart
(5,346 posts)This is silly.
jpak
(41,760 posts)nocoincidences
(2,231 posts)on the fact that I have an opinion about who is chosen for VP. It's just a freaking opinion---of course nobody cares what I think.
And evidently there is little food insecurity happening to some people on this thread, and they don't have to sit in a line of 1000 cars to get a box of food, since they have no job and have hungry children.
Try to think about people who might not be as comfortable as you are, and have the desire to do something about their food situation. It shouldn't be that difficult to get supplies if you have the will to do the hard work of growing it.
And no, not everything can be obtained online for growing food.
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)Liquor, essential. Seeds and homegrown vegetables and fruit--NOPE!
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)have food insecurity. But this is an emergency and people are dying. We need to make some difficult choices in order to save lives. And we need to find safe ways to address food insecurity. But if the governor in her best judgement feels that closing some of those retail outlets in necessary to save lives then so be it.
TexasTowelie
(112,518 posts)Will they still reside at the place where they are planting the seeds when it comes time to harvest? It would seem that the need for housing is far more immediate than anticipating the collapse of our food supply months down the road. I support those that enjoy gardening, but prioritizing should also be considered.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)zackymilly
(2,375 posts)DesertRat
(27,995 posts)Just because a garden center is "closed" to foot traffic doesn't mean they aren't open for business. My favorite nursery is offering ordering online or by phone with curbside pickup only. I purchased some plants, soil amenities and fertilizer and picked them up the other day.
pamdb
(1,332 posts)Jeez, you can't plant anything in Michigan anyway until close to Memorial Day. Hell, we could get snow this week. Unless you
have a greenhouse, what's the big deal? It's like 3 weeks till May first. Maybe you have to hold off planting your bushes or
hostas, but big deal.
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)then go out and get it, you wonderful human being, 'cause that is ESSENTIAL!! If you "need" a plant or seeds or seed-starting mix, GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU FUCKING DISEASE-SPREADING DEGENERATE!! I have no idea why government seems more concerned with WHAT we buy rather than focusing on HOW we buy--outdoor sales, crowd-controlled glove/mask shopping, contact-less sales--why is this a problem?
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Well said!
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)to be open, and why shut down any store or business, large or small, that can arrange sales without having lots of people in the store?
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I still havent seen your other question answered.
Interesting.
Sanity Claws
(21,860 posts)You are basing you opinion of whether she is qualified to step in as POTUS on her categorizing garden supplies as not essential. That is totally and completely nuts.
BTW, there is nothing prohibiting people from order gardening materials, including seeds and starter plants, online.
nocoincidences
(2,231 posts)Gardening involves timing, and my household should be planting some things right now, but the seeds that were ordered are back ordered and won't be getting here for several more weeks.
Not everything can be done online right now. Groceries are given priority in orders.
Sanity Claws
(21,860 posts)HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Worse, Its a childish, nonsensical reason.
Historic NY
(37,454 posts)I won't put a plant into the ground until May, here in NY. the weather has been foul. My lawn service is limited here and they cannot perform landscape work at this time. At this time, horticulture is designated as a non-essential business ((with the exception of nurseries/greenhouses selling food producing plants.) NY
When I was in Florida and we went to Lowe's for plants down there. It was deserted for the most part after all the toilet paper and disinfecting supplies were gone.
for your amusement
[link:
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Which for most people is a one way ticket to scurvy if thats what they are relying on.
SWBTATTReg
(22,176 posts)Thing is w/ this very seasonal item, you miss the planting season for that particular plant, you're out of luck for the whole year. Magnify that times a million and you might have a different story, folks will experience shortages, etc.
I read about an entire meat packing plant closing, that a good chunk of the 200+ workers came down with the CV, not all of them but enough to close the entire plant.
Magnify this 100, 1000 times, across the entire supply chain, and you can see what will begin to happen. Shortages all over the entire markets.
Perhaps this vicious cycle of shortages based on sickness of workers can be interrupted, as the supply/demand cycle has been so fine-tuned, like a smoothly run engine, so any kinks in the whole process will be very noticeable. Maybe better pay finally? Maybe health benefits (or at least 'better' health benefits)? Etc. If you can imagine, working in a processing plant is not an enjoyable experience, I've had family members work in a turkey processing plant. To this day, they will not eat turkey.
This is the economist speaking here (two of my degrees (micro and a micro in economics)), perhaps finally, finally workers rights and pay will finally get top billing, other than owner rights. Owners have had so much thrown at them that it's pathetic. They don't have to pay hardly any benefits to workers, or decent pay, they get SBA loans for virtually nothing, they have seen their stock market valuations go to insane levels, and all the while, worker pay (the minimum wage for example) has been still stuck at 1980s levels. Why?
Now business owners are going to pay the price. As a business owner, you can't hire overseas anymore since rump has slammed the door to pretty well both 'legal' and illegal immigration. The CV has stopped the flow of immigrants (and thus, new workers) to a crawl. The only way business owners are going to get workers back is bonuses, better pay, better benefits. Prices of these goods should NOT go up since they've been relatively high as business owners kept prices deliberately high so they can rake in the dough, e.g., higher incomes and paying far less taxes due to the 2017 tax cut (and supposedly jobs) bill.
rump has screwed the pooch, and now the ball is in workers' hands. We've been screwed since the 1980s. Now it's time to get some payback. Lots of payback (dating back from the 1980s).
You see signs of this worker revolt happening everywhere. Workers are refusing to work in unsafe conditions when companies did NOTHING to improve their safety. This is happening in many different companies, many different fields of retail, manufacturing, etc.
I also predict that rump is going to gripe and moan, just watch, he's going to slam worker higher pay and benefits and demand that these be reduced. And this after he harped endlessly on worker jobs, 'keep your houses, don't sell', etc. BS.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Get real.
SWBTATTReg
(22,176 posts)You are missing the entire point of my write up. The plant closing due to sick workers. You missed the entire thing/point, but I'm not surprised.
if..fish..had..wings
(666 posts)You can buy plants and seeds online.
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)And beer and ice cream, gummy worms? How about grout cleaner? How about ceiling fan bulbs? Are shovels OK, or is that verboten? Do the shopping police need to stand in every store giving everyone's carts a thorough investigation to make sure they're not slipping anything "nonessential" in there? This is insane, to deem entire industries and outlets and their products non-essential when they can be bought with the same outdoor point-of-sale/curbside pickup as anything else.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)The shopping police
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)on my next grocery trip, because it's looking gunky after my Easter ham splattered, or is that frivolous? Should I only order that online? Can I feed my children Chips Ahoy, or are you going to block off the cookie aisles? Is Coke still OK, or does it need to be hard liquor to get your blessing?
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)can you give me a list of kitchen utensils I am allowed to buy? Am I still allowed to buy wild bird seed, also? It's seed...and I know you said that was frivolous, and I don't own the birds, they just sit in my backyard...so....
demmiblue
(36,903 posts)BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)of store they purchase it from, then this becomes the necessary next step--aisle by aisle, item-by-item appraisal. It's the logical follow-up to her proposal here. Are spatulas necessary, and if not, can I still have permission to buy it from a store that sells pancake mix?
cwydro
(51,308 posts)How bout liquor sales, gun sales, and all those non essentials mentioned in the posters question to you?
Hmm?
Kaleva
(36,360 posts)That are smaller then 50k square feet. I just bought some last week.
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)at a place where you might be buying other stuff. So this isn't a disease or health/safety issue, it's a stick-it-to-big-box-stores issue? I just want to grasp the reasoning behind this stupidity. Edit to add: I think ALL stores, nurseries, etc. should be allowed to be open as long as they maintain health/safety practices (contactless sales, curbside, delivery, limited numbers in stores, glove/mask requirements, etc.)
Kaleva
(36,360 posts)Even after the shelter in place order is lifted, I'll probably still avoid them for sometime especially since a 2nd wave is predicted to take place later summer/early fall.
BusyBeingBest
(8,059 posts)Large or small, if I can get it without going in, I do so.
Mendocino
(7,514 posts)to blast holes in the ground to plant liquor seeds and beer pods.
BamaRefugee
(3,488 posts)Kaleva
(36,360 posts)totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)Personally, I try not to be a one issue voter. You can disagree with her on this, but her intentions are honorable. She is just trying to protect people. And I think she would make a great VP.
Retrograde
(10,164 posts)"We must cultivate our garden".
The article cited doesn't seem to me to be all that helpful in explaining what this law actually says.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Seriously, we have to be able to vote for people we don't agree with 100%. Likely there are few, if any, such people.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)is just not realistic.
Yes, I have dealbreakers (anti-choice, etc), but if they are going to stick to the Democratic party platform then they're always better than the alternative.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Pro-choice is a long held Democratic position.
But individual issues that only arose due to the pandemic - yes, no candidate can be bespoke down to the level!
Iggo
(47,577 posts)nocoincidences
(2,231 posts)Read, people! My opinion...just mine!
I've always wanted Stacey Abrams.
None of us get to vote on it, so why is it such a big deal who I or you prefer?
I don't give a shit who any of you prefer or why you do.
Get over yourselves, ffs!
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)MichMan
(11,999 posts)She has overall been doing a good job considering the circumstances, but some of her decisions on what is essential have been puzzling.
A lot of businesses have been forced to close that dont make a lot of sense while others remain open. For example, any type of lawn services are forbidden. Either you cut your own grass or it doesn't get done. People dont understand how paying someone to bring a lawn mower to work outside isn't allowed. A retired person cant have a 22 year old landscape guy cut their grass, but now have to do it themselves.
A week or so ago the State Police stated that taking a powerboat out on a lake was prohibited. Within a couple hours, the governor's office chastised the police for being wrong and said it was absolutely permissible. Ok except only one week later she reversed herself completely by issuing a new order stating all powerboats were now prohibited under any circumstances, with a $1000 fine if caught. We have a lot of people in Michigan that live on lakefront, that now are told they cant walk out their back door and take a leasuerly ride around their lake by themselves.
Yet she refuses to stop in person lottery sales, so you have people lined up in convenience stores to buy lottery tickets. Most people have been generally supportive of her orders, but they are struggling with the inconsistencies.
Last week she even ordered that people are not allowed to walk across the street to talk to a neighbor even if they stay 6 feet or more apart.
nocoincidences
(2,231 posts)I never said I dislike her, I just think she is getting some conflicted advice and a necessary person is not around to help her sort it out.