.....screw y'all.

...if the physical cause and effect weren't so blatantly obvious and predictable.

Maybe there is a god after all. Opiate of the masses.

Mahalo for this sad, terrifying report, Me.

Their ignorance is not only hurting and killing themselves.. they're hurting everyone.

like the people who drank Jim Jones kool-aid. I don't see much different both induce terrible suffering and lead to death.




Aloha Cha

The hell of the disease of religion is that the deaths of their acquaintances and family members will only cause them to believe that they didn't believe enough, or that OTHERS didn't believe enough, and most will double down.

Evidently evangelicals can't see beyond next Sunday's plate. No more ability to plan for the long term than Trump.

I know many evangelicals, and you do not know what you're talking about. At least that's the most generous reason I can think of. This blanket slander of all evangelicals is the very definition of bigotry.

Because you are right. We hear about the defiant churches, but chances are that many of them did the right thing and are now being lumped in with those who didn't.

friends in North Georgia attend. Not all are evangelical, of course, but the majority are Southern Baptist. We don't have friends-friends who are outright fundies, just some neighbors. I've seen that some churches hold limited services outside and read that a few have moved online.

of the clergy who didn't give a rat's behind about the safety of their congregations, and remained open for business were Evangelical, vs. those who were not. Were Evangelical preachers more likely to flip the bird to the public health orders and advisories than other clergy?

?

have been endangering themselves, their flocks, and their families. Since I haven't encouraged anyone to go assemble in churches, it would seem I care a lot more than they do.

You didn't invest even a split second wondering if any of them "gave a rat's ass," much less learn who they are and what they believe. Just went straight to demonizing.

Imo, that's pretty much the polar opposite of caring. It's something very different.

By the cult called assemblies of god.

I will never ever trust churches preachers or thier god ever again..
I was abused as a kid by fundamentalists too. I gave the church one more chance and the assemblies of god blew it.

I stay far away from your god and it's jesus because I can't stand it anymore. Until the abusive nature of some of these churches is confronted... And exposed let's just say I ain't going to hold my breath..

And people should keep thier stimulus checks they might need to buy food or pay rent. Shame on the greed and stupidity and abuse of religion of some of those preachers do. My 2¢

but shouldn't project it on all religious people. That very dark and unrealistic view is not good for you.

What some others don't understand is that a lot of people build good, happy lives around their church communities, which provide strong social support systems. Leaders may not be wise, but hopefully are decent, and in their close, synergistic relationships with their congregants, they reflect their feelings at least as much as their congregants reflects theirs, often more.

Those who choose fundamentalist beliefs are different, with often a host of limitations and even dysfunctions, as you suffered; but when their congregations are functioning well they're a place for them to belong with others who think like them.

But typical church folk, including non-fundie evangelicals, have been studied and found again and again to be our happiest. Overall, these are happy people. The infiltration of pernicious political corruption is damaging that serenity, but some are refusing it and some are able to find local churches that have turned their back on that.

But there is alot of ex christians that got hurt by evangelicals too. I am not the only one. faith can lead to bad things too. And some preachers grift thier flocks.
That angers me. And the fact some evangelical churches have bigotries regarding gblt people. They claim it's in the Bible,it isn't. Scholars that try to tease meaning out of scripture do not know what abomination really means yet people use it to control others in churches and that sucks. The cherry picking of Bible verses sucks and don't get me started on "prosperity gospel" there is nothing about it in the Bible. It sets stuff up to be very manipulating. Behind my anger is empathy. Sometimes the broad brush is deserved sometimes not. I find the problem is in scripture itself it is ambiguous enough to excuse many bad things.

I am happy staying away from your happy people.

stay away from most fundamentalists also, exceptions made for people who are just born into it and staying for mostly social/family reasons.

I went to one of their "Vacation Bible schools" as a child and I have never fully recovered from the emotional trauma that inflicted upon my 6 year old brain.

They are a horrible, horrible people and organization.

congregation was for a funeral for a friend of our son who died at 29. It was at a very poor, old-Georgia church her family belonged to. The chanting of testaments by those who knew her and what I thought was probably in one case speaking in tongues for a stretch was fascinating and touching.

When bad and even just stupid people develop the kind of followings attracted to that kind of religion, though, of course really bad things can happen. I'm fortunate in that I've only read of them.

When we were in church in bible study they handed out a questionnaire. I looked at it and was shocked it was the Minnesota multiphasic personality inventory
test that I was tested with by a psychiatrist on a psych unit. That test gets very specific about very personal shit and in the wrong hands can be a tool to manipulate a person in a server way. They asked me why I was not filling it in.. I said I don't want you to know my personality like that. This is the mmpi personality inventory test and therapists are who are trained and ethically bound to not use it abusively. I refuse to give this church that kind of information.

The other people taking the test stopped filling it in. They looked disturbed by what I said. Those tests that time were left unanswered.

But I had to be shunned for not doing what they wanted,secretly inside I was thinking in a cleaner way,fuckem I'm not thier puppet.

be polled for. these idiots getting sick are following the idiots on the radio who are supporting limbaugh's take, a guy who has polluted red states with trump worship and who may be dying while telling 20 mil a day it's all a hoax and the death rates are infllated and we need 'herd mentality' and get out and expose everyone so those who die will die and the rest will be immune so we can get back to buying things from large corporations. never mind the hits by health care and first responders they say they care about so much.....

the country is full of unchristian preachers who get the flock one or two days a week and have learned many of the flock are steeped in RW talk radio every day so they get better reception if they listen and repeat also. those are not evangelicals - they are idiot racist dittoheads and the media and dems are doing a huge disservice not to poll the 'evangelicals' for talk radio.

those dittohead preachers are listening to disease and climate expert limbaugh, maybe looking at death in weeks or months, telling everyone it's a democratic hoax to bring socialist/communist health care and alternative energy to americans - and destroy godism.

it is more to do with ditttoheadism than evangelicalism.

The majority of Christians overall voted for Trump in 2016, but among Evangelicals, especially white Evangelicals, the majority was overwhelming.

Can no one read?

n/t

In other words their souls were raptured

the messy and uncomfortable business of catching a serious illness and dying from it. They just thought they'd all get blissful and Hoovered up into heaven minus their clothing. I'm a little disappointed that this is all hooey, I'm sure it would have been entertaining for us lesser mortals.

Bad rain storm. People are told to evacuate. One guy doesn’t and says “god will provide”

The water is now up to his waist, a fire trucks comes to the rescue but the guy says “god will provide”

He’s now on his room and a helicopter tries to rescue him, but again, he says “god will provide”

The house collapses and he dies.

Before god the man says, “I thought you’d provide!l

And god says, “ I sent you the police a fire truck and a helicopter you moron”

I like telling it to those refuse to use common sense.

but stupid isn't usually one of them. One of my favorite parables.

http://epistle.us/inspiration/godwillsaveme.html

"God Will Save Me

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”"

"Save" them, but they chose to ignore God's message.

It takes such hubris for them to believe that out of 7.5 billion people, they are the ones God will protect.

He gave them brains, he gave them experts with evidence based advice, he even gave them governors and mayors with firm directives.

They rejected everything that god offered them to enable them to save themselves. They rejected it all.

Can't really blame god for that.

(I'm an atheist btw, but find this a useful allegory.)

to warn of the upcoming pandemic and the dangers that came with it. They chose to ignore the message.

I meant saving their lives from the virus.

not people that may be separated from God. It is possible that delivering me from the virus is Gods will.

Long life and safety has a different meaning for a Christian.

Then why would a caring and merciful God not want to cure people? This is a horrible killer and God is just going to sit back and watch and not do anything about it? Well if that's the way God is I'm not interested. My God would be merciful and caring.

Last edited Thu Apr 30, 2020, 11:03 AM - Edit history (1)

The meaning is a little different in a Christian context.
Long life and safety does not mean the same as it did for a pre Christ Jewish person.

Psalm 91

1 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High, *
abides under the shadow of the Almighty.

2 He shall say to the LORD,
"You are my refuge and my stronghold, *
my God in whom I put my trust."

3 He shall deliver you from the snare of the hunter *
and from the deadly pestilence.

4 He shall cover you with his pinions,
and you shall find refuge under his wings; *
his faithfulness shall be a shield and buckler.

5 You shall not be afraid of any terror by night, *
nor of the arrow that flies by day;

6 Of the plague that stalks in the darkness, *
nor of the sickness that lays waste at mid-day.

7 A thousand shall fall at your side
and ten thousand at your right hand, *
but it shall not come near you.

Psalm 91 719

8 Your eyes have only to behold *
to see the reward of the wicked.

9 Because you have made the LORD your refuge, *
and the Most High your habitation,

10 There shall no evil happen to you, *
neither shall any plague come near your dwelling.

11 For he shall give his angels charge over you, *
to keep you in all your ways.

12 They shall bear you in their hands, *
lest you dash your foot against a stone.

13 You shall tread upon the lion and the adder; *
you shall trample the young lion and the serpent
under your feet.

14 Because he is bound to me in love,
therefore will I deliver him; *
I will protect him, because he knows my Name.

15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him; *
I am with him in trouble;
I will rescue him and bring him to honor.

16 With long life will I satisfy him, *
and show him my salvation.

when smart Christians decided to have services online. There will never be an accounting for how many people they caused to get the virus with their pride in how stubborn they have been. There will probably never be any study that will tell the number of people outside of their churches that they infected who died either.

They were so PROUD of how willfully stupid they were being. They were so PROUD of being so stubborn.

They like to beat gay people over the head with their Bibles while they do many MANY things that the Bible says are abominations too.

I have LONG SINCE been sick of those types, because they are always the ones who harass and terrorize gay people stuck in poverty in small rural towns AND even in bigger cities in the Bible Belt.

Now, it is time to give them some of their own medicine back:

Pride is a deadly sin.

It would not have killed them to have services online instead.

Let them reap what they have sown.

Predictable, but very sad.

I wonder if this is being disseminated among that community and if it would change both their thinking and behavior.

that is out there, despite numerous medical professionals saying otherwise, and thereby, died.

Their headstones should read: Ignored Advice Of Dozens of Doctors
Died.

I wonder how many others got sick and/or died, later on, from the irresponsible actions of these people? I hope everyone of these people and their churches that sanctioned them gets sued to an inch of their pathetic lives and shut down for irresponsibly sending others to their deaths, sprouting nonsense that had nothing to do w/ science and the truth.

No mention on the flyer of any Covid precautions. Just a standard "Come worship with friends" message, along with the address of the church.

it gives the example of Rodney Howard-Browne of Florida, who appears to be white. I must be missing something.

Let me know when that guy in Baton Rouge has it

And it's not solely due to social distancing.

despite having far fewer cases than us. Having stricter social distancing policies also might be part of the reason it wasn't spreading in Africa the way it was elsewhere.

I was looking at a world map of COVID just yesterday and much of interior Africa was unmarked.

The US, not so much.

A guy in a boat sees the man stranded and says jump in and I'll save you! The man replied God will save me! Several hours pass and another man in a canoe see the stranded man and says "jump in and I'll save you!". Again the man answers "I have faith, God will save me.". Finally, a helicopter flies overhead and by this time the waters getting really high, and again the man declines the help stating that God will save him. Several hours later he died, and now he's standing in front of the all mighty and he says "Why didn't you save me?" and God replied "I did! I sent you a helicopter, a boat, and a canoe".

But there is a deplorable level of rebellion among conservatives who defy social distance guidelines and masks and deny the validity of the numbers reported.

The real tragedy is how many other people they have infected who have no choice in it, like family members, grocery workers, first responders, etc.

... does that mean that Chump is the Anti-Christ?

Asking for a friend....

they love hearing that.

In some parts of the world, the anti-Christ looks like Mike Pence. Pale blue eyes, white hair, dead look in his eyes.

A plague brought on by the Devil and Libs to kill Christians. The Devil is such a trickster. His liberal allies must have used some evil form of reverse psychology on them.

It's so obvious, yet so many refuse to see it.

Kinda like a chance to meet Brad Pitt.

But raw story exaggerates stories and presents things in a way the pleases liberals.
It's probably true there is an uptick in infections but I doubt it's enough to frighten them or anyone else.

I am happy for them.

So far they've been fortunate, able to sling their snickering at those who take this seriously. Time will tell though.

No matter how much you might disagree with them.

I'm sorry they've chosen this path and followed someone who misled them.

Apparently not their false idol Trump.

They expect God to protect them from physical dangers, when Jesus said that his kingdom was not of this world.
Folks go through physical stuff as part of their spiritual development. It's always a test of love, caring, and gaining the wisdom to be a spiritual person in a non-spiritual world.

God doesn't intervene in physical world events to the degree that these religious types want to believe.

This world is our classroom for learning to be higher level spiritual beings. It has its problems, challenges, and tests. What good would it be if God simply pulled us out of these situations all the time? What would we learn?
A pandemic is the perfect stage in which we can show our love and compassion; our ability to relate to, and care for people around us who are suffering.
It gives us a chance to see the consequences of our actions and the actions of others.
We get to see the best and the worst of humanity.
We get to decide which side we are on.
Granted most people live in the near infinite gradient of expression between the worst and the best of humanity.

But that is our choice. We are expected to make these choices. The more love there is in the world, the less difficult the experiences humanity needs to go through to bring us to the point where we are taking actions that define us.
Sometimes I think humanity is like a mule. There is an old saying that to get a mule to do something, you first have to get it's attention. The suggestion is that a 2 by 4 piece of lumber is a good tool for that end...right along side the head.

So, when humanity is merrily traveling down a path of self-absorption, with a callous disregard for everyone but themselves, there needs to be a correction to reset the need for getting re-acquainted with our spiritual selves.
A pandemic is a horrible way to do this, but humanity always sets the rules as to what is needed. Our human spirits issue wake up calls to us in the form of challenges.
If everything else fails, there is always the threat of pain and death to get people's attention.

I will reiterate, WE cause the situations that exist in this world through our actions. WE have to take responsibility for this.
God gives us life, but what we do with it is our business. God wants us to grow spiritually, but it is up to us to do that.

It's been said many times and in many ways: All you need is love.
Love is the opening door.
What the world needs now is love sweet love.

It's been written about, sung about, preached about countless times over the millenia.
And yet here we are in a world that is so obviously very devoid of love.
When will we ever learn the lesson of love?

Left-leaning people of faith tend to have very nuanced and well thought-out beliefs. For the most part, I don't believe God micro-manages our outcomes in this life. (But, nonetheless, I still repeatedly ask him to.)

...on top of the Temple, telling him to throw himself down as God would send angels to save him. Christ responded by saying do not tempt God.

Its right there in every Bible, what do they not understand about that.

There is even a joke about a guy on top of his house during a flood, both a boat and helicopter come by to help and he waves off saying God will save him. He drowns and meets God and asked why he didn't save him...which he replies, I sent a boat and a helicopter, what happened?

but God never promised immunity from disease or natural disasters in the bible. Except maybe a few special circumstances for the Jews in the old testament and even they had to stay in their house and he certainly never promised immunity to all natural disasters or diseases.

Genesis 9:15

"I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life."

Here he is promising immunity from one particular natural disaster.

not a promise that no one will die in any flood ever again.

God will not pick it up again.

God helps those who help themselves.

“thoughts and prayers”

“Evangelicals who defied social distancing...are dying of coronavirus in frightening numbers”.

Define “frightening”.

after they have reproduced.

"the blood of jesus christ will protect me"

Most mainstream Churches did not need to be told. I could quote scripture but if you don’t get it your not Christian.

Why is crowded, public worship so important? Because attendance means cash flow.

in those mega churches. No attendance equals no helicopter, no private jet, no multiple uber residences, no chauffeur driven limousines, etc etc for the pastor.....

I see where Jimmy and Tammy Faye are both trying to get back into the business of the lord......

Trump and RepubliCONs sure picked the perfect crowd of sheep to fleece........

Tammy Faye Bakker died in 2007

That population seems to be more vulnerable to begin with. This is so sad.

Lots of my friends are churchgoers. (I consider myself a churchgoer who just happens to be ... on an extended break )

Many of them won't go back into a crowded church until the virus is more under control, but others will go. Some lack the judgement to discern the threat. Others may see it as a test of their faith. And there will be some who know better, but will feel peer pressure to go back as if everything were back to normal.

and sowing AKA (almost instant) karma

Reported to be played by the band as the Titanic sank.

I guess Evangelicals have taken the lyrics to heart. Willfully disregarding social distancing -- the only method to be proven to work to eliminate the transmission of coronavirus -- is tantamount to mass suicide.