Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

ashredux

(2,606 posts)
Sat May 2, 2020, 06:55 AM May 2020

I grew up thinking America was the greatest nation in the world....

I grew up thinking America was the greatest nation in the world.

When I got older I thought America is a great nation despite some of its flaws and inequalities.

When I was middle aged I thought America has a lot of problems, but we are moving to change these problems.

Today....America is just bigger, not any better than any other country in the world. Just bigger. If I lived in another country I would be afraid of America. This reality saddens me

45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I grew up thinking America was the greatest nation in the world.... (Original Post) ashredux May 2020 OP
We are rapidly becoming a failed state. walkingman May 2020 #1
With a Madman in the White House ashredux May 2020 #2
Yes we do. mountain grammy May 2020 #25
My parents always talked about the things that needed to change. madaboutharry May 2020 #3
I still think that America is the greatest nation in the world Rhiannon12866 May 2020 #4
I hope you are correct...but I fear the worse ashredux May 2020 #5
I admit that I'm scared too. Rhiannon12866 May 2020 #6
The big difference is Scarsdale May 2020 #15
Give Trump a break, gab13by13 May 2020 #20
Is Maya Lin available to do a Covid-19 wall? RVN VET71 May 2020 #31
That America may be gone for good. Sad... rickyhall May 2020 #10
I think it's far more resilient than any of us think. paleotn May 2020 #19
Agreed BBG May 2020 #28
+1 n/t Laelth May 2020 #33
Carter's election and the congress sweep of '76, was the best chance we had to make things right. 3Hotdogs May 2020 #7
We've lost a lot enduring republican administrations and ... Maxheader May 2020 #8
We took too much for granted... N_E_1 for Tennis May 2020 #9
Being Ojibwe, I always knew that the government had & caused a lot of problems, catbyte May 2020 #11
Well said. hay rick May 2020 #37
We are a corrupted state vlyons May 2020 #12
Namaste 🙏 ashredux May 2020 #13
I graduated college in 82 SallyHemmings May 2020 #14
Well said! chia May 2020 #32
I grew up all over the world... MrModerate May 2020 #16
They once thought we'd fail miserably.... paleotn May 2020 #21
We used to value competence too. plimsoll May 2020 #17
It's what we aspire to that makes us great. Not what we are now. paleotn May 2020 #18
America hasn't always been great. gab13by13 May 2020 #22
We're a mess. mwb970 May 2020 #23
I have been trying to get those idiots to realize that. Ligyron May 2020 #45
What a difference a day makes. Harker May 2020 #24
In the movie Back to School with Rodney kacekwl May 2020 #26
With trump at the wheel, we are a nation to be feared. No better than anyone. Worse than many. spanone May 2020 #27
Many great posts here today. All have lots of truth in them but you won't change anything here flying_wahini May 2020 #29
True...but it helps to vent ashredux May 2020 #34
I'm pretty sure we were all told that when we were children. Mariana May 2020 #30
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2020 #35
ive been let down by this country for over 30 years and it has always been a failed state in my eye AllaN01Bear May 2020 #36
I am not giving up my U.S. Passport. Laelth May 2020 #38
Sobering to realize....... dawnie51 May 2020 #39
Seeing the "Golden Years" turn into the "Tin Years" ashredux May 2020 #43
K&R BlueJac May 2020 #40
"The gate to the path to wisdom is guarded by confusion and paradox." jaxexpat May 2020 #41
Growing up, I knew nothing else. We were the greatest. Karma13612 May 2020 #42
The concept of America - a secular state of, by and for the people - IS the apex of civilization Moostache May 2020 #44

madaboutharry

(40,212 posts)
3. My parents always talked about the things that needed to change.
Sat May 2, 2020, 07:06 AM
May 2020

I was taught that a lot of things needed to be different for America to be great. There was always hope that one day the country as a whole would do the right thing.

What hurts so much now is discovering how many Americans are filled with ignorance. selfishness, racism, and hate.

Rhiannon12866

(205,551 posts)
4. I still think that America is the greatest nation in the world
Sat May 2, 2020, 07:09 AM
May 2020

My maternal grandparents and paternal great grandparents came here for a reason. And I grew up believing that I was very fortunate to have been born here. But right now we have the worst failed leader in our otherwise proud history and I still have hopes that we can recover if we work together - as we have during the previous darkest times in our history.

Rhiannon12866

(205,551 posts)
6. I admit that I'm scared too.
Sat May 2, 2020, 07:14 AM
May 2020

It just happened so fast. But we have had other dark times, wars and depressions, and I'm holding on to the belief that we can overcome this national nightmare as well, but these days it's easy to get discouraged.

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
15. The big difference is
Sat May 2, 2020, 07:56 AM
May 2020

that most dark times were brought on by foreign nations. THIS dark time was brought on by an incompetent ass, who does not read his daily briefings warnings of threats and danger. He is busy having his spray tan, hair coiffed, pants steamed while watching Faux. Maybe the daily briefings should be sent directly to Faux, so they can read them to him each morning? The shameful part of all this death, unemployment, food lines is that the gop is trying tocover it all up. It is 100% their guy's fault. Poor choice of a "leader" with a past that should have raised lots of red flags. No qualifications for the job, now look where we are. FAILURE of the very worst kind. Hey, Moscow Mitch try to talk yourself out of this total, unmitigated DISASTER that you and the gop caused, trying to "own the libs" Maybe tRump will get his wall. In DC with the names of all his victims on it. It will be GREAT, LONGER than the Viet Nam memorial wall.

RVN VET71

(2,692 posts)
31. Is Maya Lin available to do a Covid-19 wall?
Sat May 2, 2020, 09:35 AM
May 2020

Maybe it could be a large sarcophagus bearing the names of all who are known to have died from the plague and a walkway around it inscribed with the timeline of quotes from the president and his serfs. You know, about the Chinese hoax, about how we contained it at 15 cases, about how its all the fault of the governors, about how the Nazis in Michigan are all fine people.

The history of this plague is going to make those who read it shake their heads in shock -- unless Trump wins again in November in which case the only histories that will be available to Americans are those written by Stephen Miller.

BBG

(2,540 posts)
28. Agreed
Sat May 2, 2020, 09:20 AM
May 2020

A lesser nation would not have weathered the anarchofascist onslaught the Republican Party has subjected us to for the past forty years. Not that we can withstand it indefinitely but we have so far. Hopefully enough of our fellow citizens will be motivated to exercise their civic duty and vote.
We have so many opportunities to improve this nation and our societal systems.

3Hotdogs

(12,393 posts)
7. Carter's election and the congress sweep of '76, was the best chance we had to make things right.
Sat May 2, 2020, 07:15 AM
May 2020

Changes were made, but they were reversed, not implemented or not enforced in following years. Than came Rush, Nooty-toot-toot and McChimp.

We are not the greatest nation on Earth and probably never will be.

Then watch Oliver Stone's history of the United States and know that we are fucked.

Maxheader

(4,373 posts)
8. We've lost a lot enduring republican administrations and ...
Sat May 2, 2020, 07:20 AM
May 2020

majorities in congress...

We will survive , we will prosper, using our own willpower

and Joes...

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,738 posts)
9. We took too much for granted...
Sat May 2, 2020, 07:21 AM
May 2020

for too long a time.

We basked in the warm golden sunshine of American greatness wishing the world could have even a little taste of the American Way.

Mentally and/or physically we grew fat, lazy, apathetic; most of America sat around waiting for all the benefits that this country bestows upon them.

I believed it was so good I went out and bought a pair of rose-colored spectacles. I believed in Santa!

Then...this old guy stroked his white beard, sat back in his chair and grew up, finally maturing.

catbyte

(34,404 posts)
11. Being Ojibwe, I always knew that the government had & caused a lot of problems,
Sat May 2, 2020, 07:38 AM
May 2020

but I also thought that the Constitution stood for something pretty great. But now we're nothing but The Bad Guys. I'm afraid of America and for America. I always thought that even though our government did some pretty evil things, our citizens were decent and meant well. I had no idea that almost half of them were selfish, bigoted, nasty, just downright vile. Boy, was I naive.

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
12. We are a corrupted state
Sat May 2, 2020, 07:45 AM
May 2020

Our gov by and for the people has become a gov by and for the wealthy corporate oligarchs.

SallyHemmings

(1,822 posts)
14. I graduated college in 82
Sat May 2, 2020, 07:49 AM
May 2020

The first in my family to do so. Education was so important. My great grandparents attended the ceremony. I was a history and political science major. That combined with a family sharing their journey I entered the world cautiously but knowing my path would not be easy.

The racism and misogyny was ever present. But along the way, I had mentors along the way. I earned the corner office as an insurance executive. My staff was diverse and we did our work well. After the sale of our division most of the team have continued their journey successfully.

That being said, I wish I was surprised at where we are as a nation. This country was built on the backs of unpaid labor. It grew off of underpaid labor.

Until a person who works 40 plus hours and doesn’t have to rely on the state for food stamps or health benefits this formula was designed to implode. Why? Because there is class of folks with power who enjoy the fruits of the labor of the expendable worker.

I could go on. Vote all of the Republican bastards out. Only then will we begin the work of becoming the American promise.

 

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)
16. I grew up all over the world...
Sat May 2, 2020, 08:04 AM
May 2020

And have continued travelling through adulthood. As I was growing up, I figured out pretty quickly that America was a great country, but not necessarily a good one.

Nothing I've seen in succeeding decades has contradicted that.

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
21. They once thought we'd fail miserably....
Sat May 2, 2020, 08:34 AM
May 2020

Those yankee upstarts thinking the rabble can rule themselves. With no sovereign. No aristocracy. No guiding nobility. Just who the hell do they think they are?

Seems they mostly come around to our way of thinking. And may be doing it better now than we. But we were first. And did so without the French guillotine lollapalooza.

plimsoll

(1,670 posts)
17. We used to value competence too.
Sat May 2, 2020, 08:09 AM
May 2020

The list of stuff we "used to" that we aren't / don't is pretty big.

The competence is the one that hurts. Charlie Pierce called it idiot America, the notion that popular stupidity is more valid than expertise leads here. As far as I can tell good intentions got a bad wrap. The road to hell is paved with the desire to profit from the misery of others.

I'm not hopeful any more. There is a hardcore of deplorables, they are proud of the term so I don't mind using it, that would gleefully drown kittens to "own the libs." I'm not sure there is a line of transgressive behavior for them, and that is scary. Sure they may not be the bulk of the right wing, but the remainder is made up of people whose tribal membership in the right is more important than the "morals" they demand be upheld.

Since the mid-'70s the GOP has nurtured and given safe haven to this profoundly anti-democratic (anti-republican is just as apt) element. The risk that this philosophy would actually destroy the United States was acceptable because, power. That their gamble hasn't payed off is bad enough. That all the rest of us have to suffer probably doesn't bother them in the slightest.

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
18. It's what we aspire to that makes us great. Not what we are now.
Sat May 2, 2020, 08:21 AM
May 2020

No system of government devised by the minds of humans, no matter how talented and thoughtful, will ever be perfect..or perfectly executed. Humans will do what humans do, But in this country, we're never fully satisfied with where we are as a people or a government. We can always do better. And though it's in fits and starts, we improve generation to generation. Our system allows us the means and tools to struggle and work to improve the lot of all Americans. The example our ancestors set demands it.

As an example....gay marriage. If you'd asked me in my 20's and 30's if the right to marriage would be extended to gay folks, I would never have thought that would occur in my lifetime. Yet, here we are. Not done by any means on any of the issues that come to mind, but we're getting there.

Don't give up on us yet. We're not done. And for every victory there's another challenge.

gab13by13

(21,362 posts)
22. America hasn't always been great.
Sat May 2, 2020, 08:52 AM
May 2020

Read about the history of the labor movement where workers fought against sweatshops and child labor. Where the government was called in and killed protesters like at the Haymarket Square "riot." Pinkertons brutalized workers. Yet the workers prevailed, formed unions, gained a voice at the workplace. Fast forward to today, 6% of private companies are unionized. Big business has beaten back the labor movement. Most strikes are outlawed and when disputes go to arbitration workers lose. Workers fought for pensions, few if any workers get pensions now. Workers fought for a safe workplace, look at what is happening today in our meat packing facilities. Workers either show up for work or they are considered a voluntary quit. OSHA is toothless. I could go on and on.

I have to laugh when propaganda from the right calls us Socialists. The United States is one of the least Socialist countries in the world, and if Trump gets payroll taxes eliminated, good bye Social Security and Medicare.

I can't even call America a fascist country any more, we are an authoritarian dictatorship. Whistle past the graveyard all you want but it is going to take one mighty effort to return America to a shining light on a hill.

4 more years of Trump will be the nail in the coffin. He has already packed the courts with Nazis and for certain he will get to appoint another person to the Supreme Court unless our hero RBG can hang on.

With all of this doom and gloom post, we need to Make America America Again by thrashing Trump in November and we must win back the Senate. Then no more Mr. nice guy Democrats, no moving on without holding those bastards accountable. Lock them up and go after every fucking White Supremacist in this country. America is great because of our diversity. Rant off.

mwb970

(11,361 posts)
23. We're a mess.
Sat May 2, 2020, 08:56 AM
May 2020

Too many conservatives, too many fundamentalist "Christians", too many republicans, too many trump cultists. No other modern nation is bogged down like this. We have so much potential, but all we do is give money to rich people while an army of morons vote against the nation's best interests.

Ligyron

(7,633 posts)
45. I have been trying to get those idiots to realize that.
Sat May 2, 2020, 10:33 AM
May 2020

With a large portion of the male morons I'm familiar with ... their problem seems to be that Democrats are thought to be less than masculine enough for their liking. Ridiculous I know but there it is. It's why they watch football, yell at the screen aggressively and throw things.

I really thought Joe would help dispel that perception for them somewhat since he is a real guy's guy if noting else and I think he will. But when I heard him try to answer a few questions and speak to these allegations of sexual harassment/assault the other night ... I truly hate to say it but he really has lost a step or two since I last paid any real attention to him or what he has to say.

I'll probably get some hate for saying it but he's just not the same guy that made Eddie Munster look like an idiot on national television in that VP debate. Now that was a thing of beauty and just the sort of beat down which would impress those idiots and gain him some respect when all is said and done.

That guy would have done the same thing to Trump in the upcoming campaign and I hope Joe can somehow channel his inner warrior into action and catch enough fire to burn Trump to the ground in the debates. It can happen ... we just need an Angelo Dundee and entourage like Ali or Sugar Ray Robinson surrounding him coaching, drilling and encouraging him

kacekwl

(7,017 posts)
26. In the movie Back to School with Rodney
Sat May 2, 2020, 09:10 AM
May 2020

Dangerfield the scene where the business professor outlines a project to build a business from the ground up. After he describes the different things that have to be addressed Rodneys character proceeds to tell him all the things he missed. Greasing politicians, paying off inspectors, kick back to unions and planning commission etc. I might be naive and I know this is the way EVERYTHING is done these days. Does anyone think this country could ever get back to a somewhat honest, moral, decent place ? Is it this bad (or worse) in other countries ?

flying_wahini

(6,606 posts)
29. Many great posts here today. All have lots of truth in them but you won't change anything here
Sat May 2, 2020, 09:23 AM
May 2020

Unless something changes the complete apathy of John Q Public to Want to
Know the truth about The Whole Trump debacle. News sources must be made stronger and quash all the constant stream of Propaganda coming out of Washington.

The people must RISE UP. I don’t see that happening. Even now.

Mariana

(14,858 posts)
30. I'm pretty sure we were all told that when we were children.
Sat May 2, 2020, 09:25 AM
May 2020

Anyway, we're better than some other countries. That's not saying much, but we're better than some.

Response to ashredux (Original post)

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
38. I am not giving up my U.S. Passport.
Sat May 2, 2020, 09:48 AM
May 2020

For all its flaws, the United States of America remains the greatest nation in the history of the Earth.

We have the world’s largest economy, despite having less than 1/3 the population of China, our nearest competitor. We have the greatest military empire that the world has ever seen. Our reach is truly global—far surpassing the military might of any previous empire. Our language is the world’s dominant language. Our arts are consumed globally. Our products (from Coca-Cola to Apple Iphones) are highly desired and consumed globally. We even created the internet and gave it to the world FOR FREE.

No. We are the definition of a GREAT COUNTRY, and not even Donald Trump and his Republican minions can destroy us. We have serious problems, sure. I would like to continue to address those problems, but I will not deny the obvious truth ... that the United States of America is GREAT.



-Laelth

dawnie51

(959 posts)
39. Sobering to realize.......
Sat May 2, 2020, 09:48 AM
May 2020

in the autumn of my life, that everything I believed all these years was a lie. I thought we had "checks and balances". That a totally crazy mafioso could NEVER get control of the country, because of all the wonderful PATRIOTS who would defend us against such. Seems naïve to me now.

jaxexpat

(6,837 posts)
41. "The gate to the path to wisdom is guarded by confusion and paradox."
Sat May 2, 2020, 09:53 AM
May 2020

Old Buddhist proverb (or EST training, one or the other).

The Not Ready For Kate Smith Version:
Oh beautiful rapacious lies
both angry and insane.
As purple passions overwhelm
seems nothing's left to gain.
America, America
It's racism from thee.
Perverting good
like none else could
as if the world can't see.

Pardon the bad poetry, I blush.

Karma13612

(4,552 posts)
42. Growing up, I knew nothing else. We were the greatest.
Sat May 2, 2020, 09:53 AM
May 2020

I thought of people living behind the “Iron Curtain” and wondered how they could even be happy, or breath freely.

Now, as a 66 year old, I have to watch fellow citizens wear clothes emblazoned with swastikas and live with the knowledge that our own President has financial dealings with Russia.

I just can’t get beyond this.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
44. The concept of America - a secular state of, by and for the people - IS the apex of civilization
Sat May 2, 2020, 10:04 AM
May 2020

The reality of 2020 America is a dumpster fire of circumstance, incompetence, rage and fear.
We are the 1990's TV ad for Life Alert...we've fallen and we can't get up.

Part of this is generational. But that path leads to more division, anger and recrimination...but know (don't suspect or accept but KNOW) this...the answers for the future do not lie in the power wielders of the past or present. The millennial generation inherits the whirlwind of a shattered economy, broken promises of stolen opportunity and a side order of global pandemic for good measure.

The future belongs to those born after 2000, not those of use left over from the 20th century. The BEST we can hope for is to serve those who must live in our wreckage and to provide them a solid cautionary tale of what to avoid. We can't tell them the answers (though that rarely stops me from opining loudly about it anyway), but we can bear honest witness to the lies and self-deception that the USA started on in 1980 and has never been able to derail since, only circling the drain faster with each new catastrophe.

I do apologize to them for the mess we - Boomers and Gen X - are largely responsible for leaving in our self-satisfied wake. I can't offer much hope, but I do offer my sympathies, as hollow and empty as that will prove to be.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I grew up thinking Americ...