General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Masks help stop the spread of coronavirus - the science is simple..."
"... and I'm one of 100 experts urging governors to REQUIRE public mask-wearing"
Link:
https://theconversation.com/amp/masks-help-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-the-science-is-simple-and-im-one-of-100-experts-urging-governors-to-require-public-mask-wearing-138507
... The research that first convinced me was a laser light-scattering experiment. Researchers from the National Institutes of Health used lasers to illuminate and count how many droplets of saliva were flung into the air by a person talking with and without a face mask. The paper was only recently published officially, but I saw a YouTube video showing the experiment in early March. The results are shockingly obvious in the video. When the researcher used a simple cloth face cover, nearly all the droplets were blocked.
This evidence is only relevant if COVID-19 is transmitted by droplets from a persons mouth. It is. There are many documented super-spreading cases connected with activities like singing in enclosed spaces that create a lot of droplets.
The light-scattering experiment cannot see micro-droplets that are smaller than 5 microns and could contain some viral particles. But experts dont think that these are responsible for much COVID-19 transmission.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,855 posts)... with few lockdowns, an incredibly dense population, older demographics, very few tests, etc.
The big difference is that they wear masks in public.
Link:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/14/japan-coronavirus-pandemic-lockdown-testing/
dalton99a
(81,565 posts)Many people in Asia also wear masks in heavy traffic, so it's not a big deal at all
triron
(22,011 posts)in public (except when exercising).
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,855 posts)This is the "explanation" for Ohio's non-requirement.
https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/resources/general-resources/cloth-masks-or-face-coverings-in-the-workplace
Q: Why arent face coverings required for customers, clients, and other visitors or guests?
A: Face coverings are strongly recommended for people who can safely wear them. The decision to exempt customers from the requirement was made to protect Ohioans who cannot wear face coverings, such as people who have severe asthma or breathing issues, hearing aids, autism, post-traumatic stress disorder, or claustrophobia. In addition, face coverings should NEVER be worn by or placed on people who are younger than 2, have difficulty breathing, or are unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove them without assistance.
So those conditions don't exist in the mask-requiring states, or in places like Tokyo? Uh huh.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,873 posts)condition? Am I missing something here?
KentuckyWoman
(6,690 posts)Is in comfortable? NO.
Can I do it? YES
SHOULD I do it? YES.
This said. Autism, PTSD, claustrophobia... I can see that.
I have a nephew in his late 50's that spent 12 weeks fighting off 2 lungs full of fluid due to heart failure 2 years ago. It was horribly traumatic. Physically he could safely wear a mask and is trying. He wants to, he get why he needs it. He's only up to about 2 minutes before he starts flipping out. I don't think he'll get there but he's trying so hard. In the meantime he's doing everything possible to limit the possibility of exposure.
Editing to add... we've made him one that is a single layer bandana with ties. Firm at the nose to hold it up but loose under the mouth. He can wear it looser than it should be, but it is a face covering. He can tuck the bottom into his T-shirt. That one he's up to 15 min. It will do a little something to protect other people if he's a carrier, but won't do a whole lot to protect him.
Talitha
(6,611 posts)God bless him, Hon... he's trying.
Which is a LOT more than some people in our country.
When it's safe to do so, please give him a big hug from all of us at DU, ok?
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,873 posts)It's a long way from perfect, I'm sure, but is vastly better than no mask.
Thekaspervote
(32,787 posts)Link to tweet
?s=21
Cha
(297,496 posts)Cha
(297,496 posts)Sign on Entrance to Kauai Beer Company's Take Out Dept.. NO Mask NO Service~ Boom.
Mahalo for this Article, Buckeye_Democrat!
P.S. We need a little smiley with a mask on..
Celerity
(43,469 posts)saying they are right)
Why is Sweden not recommending face masks to the public?
https://www.thelocal.se/20200514/explained-why-is-sweden-not-recommending-face-masks-to-the-public
Following the newly presented EU guidelines, stipulating that face masks should be worn while travelling, the Scandinavian airline SAS was quick to announce that, from now on, all air travellers over the age of six are required to wear a face mask throughout their flight. Information about the protection face masks provide is ambiguous. Many countries promote the use of face masks in public spaces. Yet Sweden still does not, even after the latest advice from the European Commission. You're allowed to wear one, but the guidelines state they are "not needed in everyday life".
"Face masks in public spaces do not provide any greater protection to the population," Johan Carlson from the Swedish Public Health Agency Folkhälsomyndigheten said at a press conference on May 13th. Swedish health authorities argue that keeping a distance, washing your hands, not touching your face, and staying at home if you experience any symptoms are still the best ways to halt the spread of the coronavirus. There is a concern that wearing face masks would make people follow these guidelines less strictly. Prime minister Stefan Löfven told reporters at the same press conference: "There is a risk of a false sense of security, that you believe that you can't be infected if you wear a face mask."
In addition, the Public Health Agency states on its website that wearing a mask could increase the chances of you touching your face, because of itchiness or as you adjust the cloth. Every time your hands touch your eyes, nose or mouth, the risk of being infected with the coronavirus increases. "The virus can gather in the mask and when you take it off, the virus can be transferred to your hands and thereby spread further," state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell told SVT. Healthcare staff use face masks as to prevent bacteria from transferring to their patients. But face masks used in hospitals are generally of a different kind than single-use, lightweight masks bought at pharmacies.
"Face masks can be effective against larger free floating particles [connected to air pollution], but nothing suggests that they help protect you from air-borne viruses," Tegnell said to SVT. So why are other countries recommending face masks? Well, one reason is to increase people's feeling of safety. Another is as a precaution, to protect your surroundings in case you are, unknowingly, contagious. As recently as February, the World Health Organisation stated that viral transmission from asymptomatic people was rare, based on information available at the time. But a growing body of data now suggests that a significant number of infected people who don't have symptoms can still transmit the virus.
snip
Why is Denmark not recommending face masks to the public?
https://www.thelocal.dk/20200511/why-is-denmark-not-recommending-face-masks-to-the-public
The Danish Health Authority has from the start of the coronavirus pandemic advised the general public against wearing face masks in public, arguing both that the benefits are unproven, and that doing so risks making it more difficult for health authorities to source supplies. "The Danish Health Authority does not recommend that healthy people who move around in public generally wear face masks," the authority explains in a Question and Answer section on its website. "This is partly because it is uncertain whether it has an effect on the spread of infection, but also because we must ensure that we will not lack face masks where they are most important, in the health and care sector."
According to the Politiken newspaper, however, the Authority has over the past week changed this advice to remove a section claiming that "nothing suggests" that the masks have an effect on transmission of the virus when worn by the general public. Henning Bundgaard, Professor in Cardiology at Copenhagen University, who is conducting a trial on the efficacy of face masks, told The Local that he believed Denmark was right to exercise caution.
"No one has any documentation that face masks outside hospitals work at all," he said. "And I think it is rational to provide this documentation before we demand that people need to wear masks out in the open." He said that masks came with many disadvantages. "It comes with a price for most people: You have to pay for the masks; it is inconvenient to wear it; is difficult to talk to people when you can't see their face; if people working hard, it can be hard to breathe, and we don't know how long a mask last for." Perhaps the biggest issue, he added, was that masks might create a sense of false security. "If you feel safe, you might change your behaviour, maybe you get closer to people and maybe you don't wash your hands so often," he said. "So the achievement might be none, or you might be worse off in fact."
He said he did not think that the issue of face masks was so urgent that Denmark's government or health authorities should demand them without requiring evidence of their effectiveness, even though his own study would not generate results until the end of June. "It won't be too late," he said. "We are talk about second and third waves of this pandemic." Governments around the world have increasingly begun recommending masks as evidence has increased that people with coronavirus can be highly infectious before they begin to show symptoms.
snip
Why is Norway not recommending face masks for the public?
https://www.thelocal.no/20200508/why-is-norway-not-recommending-face-masks-for-the-public
The official advice on the website of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health is clear: "Based on the current epidemiological situation, the Norwegian Institute of Public Health considers that there is no scientific basis for recommending general use or non-medical face masks in the general population." Hanne-Merete Eriksen-Volle, who heads the agency's Antibiotic Resistance and Infection Prevention department, told The Local that her team are currently reevaluating the evidence. The process is due to end next week and after that will NIPH consider whether there is a need to update the recommendations.
She said that the agency's greatest worry was that low quality masks would give the public a false sense of security. "We are aware that this type of protection, which won't be medical face masks, would be of very variable quality," she said. "And so they might lead people to not give the same attention to the other advice that we have, such as keeping distance and staying home if you are sick." In addition, she said that the agency believed that given the low spread of coronavirus in Norway, the evidence suggested that face masks were not an efficient way of reducing the infection. "We have been going through all available evidence, and that, together with the low degree of disease we have in Norway, means we don't regard this as an efficient means of infection control." .
Espen Rostrup Nakstad at the Directorate of Health said that there might be a point to wearing them in congested areas. "This will to a very large extent prevent the spread of drops and infection," he told VG newspaper. "And for everyone else, it might be an extra protection if you sit close to others." But he later clarified that this should not be seen as a recommendation. "We still believe that there is no reason to recommend general use of face masks in the public space in a situation where we have little spread of infection in society and can keep a good distance to each other," he told Dagbladet.
Bent Høie, Norway's health minister, also dismissed the measure: "The EU's infection agency says this applies to crowded situations. We should see how good we are in Norway to keep our distance. This is a much simpler measure." Petter Elstrøm, a researcher in Eriksen-Volle's department, said that there was a greater justification for masks in densely populated city areas such as big Asian cities. "It has a good effect where the prevalence in the population is high, while the density of people is high," he told the VG newspaper. "It's different on the subway in Shanghai than the subway in Oslo."
snip
jmg257
(11,996 posts)To not do other important distancing things, and 2) to save them for health care workers (why do they need them if they do not help?)
. Prime minister Stefan Löfven told reporters at the same press conference: "There is a risk of a false sense of security, that you believe that you can't be infected if you wear a face mask."
but also because we must ensure that we will not lack face masks where they are most important, in the health and care sector."
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,855 posts)... about a false sense of security.
Social distancing should still be promoted, and it makes little sense to me that other mitigating measures shouldn't be used as well.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)I wonder if this is a good sign, or are they simply not testing?
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,855 posts)... have been the most accurate so far, at least in the USA:
https://covid19-projections.com/#view-projections
It looks like the model is predicting a reasonably flat number of new cases for awhile in Georgia, with just a slight upward slope. It changes as new information comes in.
Here's the link to comparisons with other models:
https://covid19-projections.com/about/#historical-performance
The IMHE model that has been used by the Trump administration has performed very badly and, unfortunately, it has also received the most media attention.
ProfessorGAC
(65,134 posts)Not meaning as a critique of the singers! LOL!
I used to have to wipe down my keyboards after every set because of all the spit I put on it while playing & singing.
And, that mike was actually right in front of mouth blocking a lot of it.
Yes, we disassembled the vocal mikes to clean the screen and pop filter every could weeks, and used wipes on the outside of the screen every night.
Yes, singing, especially in a tight setting like a choir, is an efficient way to spread pathogens.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,855 posts)Singing involves more force than regular talking.
I can change my voice and imitate Bob Dylan's singing well, but that's about it for me. My singing is pretty horrible, so I've had little experience with those after-effects. Lol.
ProfessorGAC
(65,134 posts)Same thing. All over the top and upper side!
Standing up isn't so bad, though.
Probably because it's farther from the face, and closer to the body. Not sure.
But, I do know the guitar gets messier on a stool gig!
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,855 posts)... about the estimated amount of emitted droplets from various activities:
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them
It can probably help reduce anxiety about some activities too, like a brief outdoors conversation.
ProfessorGAC
(65,134 posts)I liked the conversational tone of that piece. Fast & easy read!
Good find!