I can see no good remedy after the fact.

No Republican has "won" an election in this century.

Al Gore won in 2000, but the Supreme Court appointed Bush.

In 2004, Ohio was outright stolen which gave Bush a second term.

And in 2016, tens of thousands of "missing votes" in Florida, (along with Putin's help), made one of the dumbest men in the world pResident.

Republicans weren't prepared for our 2018 turnout. But you can bet their prepared this time around.

If we don't stop the theft of America by inimical forces in Nov. we have lost our country. drumpf will escalate his murderousness and thefts immediately and we will lose everything. We either revolt or leave because the election apparatus will have been broken beyond repair in favor of the right wing and we will have no other choice other than a slow sad death and unless you are rich, it will be with no medical help either.

It may already be dead, but 4 more years of these criminals and America will be a failed Democracy for generations.

succeed. I have always felt that this country should be broken up into several countries, and since the criminal behavior toward mostly blue states (stealing medical equipment bought for, and by, the states themselves) have brought on a serious "us and them" situation at the state level, we may see governors and state administrations heading that way. Ask to be annexed to Canada? Form alliances with like-minded states and secede? These sorts of actions could be taken.

Sadly, if our nation has turned into this for whatever reason all we can do is continue to fight for what is right. After 50 years of this BS, I have serious doubts that it will ever change. We are truly watching "American Exceptionalism" and it's not a pretty picture.

Give it to my kids to hold. Then out to the shed grab and sharpen my pitchfork. Throw some stuff in the truck and set the GPS for the White House. Hopefully I will meet up with thousands more like minded people and drag the whole bunch of them out. We'll see what happens after that.

I don’t see this as too far fetched especially if after the election the blue states would incur punishment from the administration.

The second amendment extremists will save us from tyranny.

I don't have one. I have grandchildren who will inherit what we leave them.

For now I'm going with the assumption that we will rescue our nation much as our own grandparents had to in their time of great peril nearly 100 years ago. We have a magnificent democratic heritage, enormous wealth and a great future -- if we can keep it as Benjamin Franklin warned.

IF Trump manages to win again but Dems take House and Senate, then it could be manageable.

If GOP takes over everything, I do plan on leaving the country if at all possible.

If he wins a second term, I doubt we will retake the Senate. If Biden wins, I think the Senate comes with him (as well as the House). Even if we had both chambers with Trump still as POTUS, he will pretty much continue doing what he is doing and stonewall Congress for another 4 years and we probably wouldn't have enough in the Senate to remove him unless we win more Senate seats in 2022 but we don't know how those will go. Let's just do everything in our power to knock him out of office in 2020, hopefully taking Congress as well.

but there is a possibility he can rig the presidential but not the house and senate races...

Not claiming to be clairvoyant

who just like to bitch about tyranny.

Just like in the last revolution

We would use semiautomatic firearms? I thought those should be banned?

What about the military? They have tanks, bombers, drones, nukes etc.

Anyway, this is all just hypothetical. Let's just win at the ballot box and not have to worry about this.

As far as I can tell, this thread is purely hypothetical speculation lacking any real cause or effect... yet you certainly do invest time into hanging points-of-order onto the merely speculative, and pretending that it's a formal thesis.

The kind of person I hate going to movies with.... forgetting that it''s fiction, and pretending to find any chink in the armor to appear more clever than reality may actually have allowed.

I get it. My twelve year old niece does that quite often too.

Those who are talking about starting a revolution are just spouting bullshit.

I wonder why you waste time critiquing my post rather than the initial bullshit I replied to

BTW- how do you know how much time I invest into anything? Do I have a stalker?

I will make sure I don't go to a movie with you. If your twelve year old niece wants to go I would accompany her. She would not have to be concerned she might face sophomoric belittling should she express her own thoughts.

There won't be any geographic boundaries this time around.

I am not the one advocating starting a revolution.

Perhaps you replied to the wrong post?

But I get it... it really super chargers self-righteous attitudes to pretend the merely hypothetical is in fact, a formal proposal.

If the Republicans manage to steal another election, we are done.

Financially secure, no debt, good health for our age, grown children, yada..yada. We’ve talked about relocating to Mexico, Panama Canal Zone or a few other places.

We are both information junkies with digital subscriptions to the NYT & WP - subscriptions to Vanity Fair, the Nation, Time, Bloomberg Business Week and lots more. The last 3+ years have been highly troubling and with RUMP in charge we see no end in sight. We don’t buy lottery tickets but we do have hope “we” will win in November.

The wife and I moved to Mexico five years ago. We absolutely love our life here. We have friends in Costa Rica, Panama and Equador. Considered several places, but they were all too tropical. Climate where we live is perfect. Up until our course was closed a few weeks back I was walking 18 holes three days a week. In five years I missed two days due to weather.
We consider ourselves fortunate since we have no kids and grand-kids in the states. Nobody to really worry about there, but some friends They are adults and make their own choices. I lived out of the US three times previously and had no problem leaving. The wife has adjusted well. She has lunch with friends everyday in one of the villages and then plays cards. Most restaurants have closed, but a couple are open for lunch and many have take-out.
The virus was a few weeks behind the US here, but has arrived. Mexico City is hard hit and some other cities. Mexico has a young population so that may mitigate some of effects here. We live in a rural neighborhood in the hills overlooking a lake. Isolating is no problem. As soon as I heard about the virus I bought a generator that can run our entire house and bought a large freezer.
With internet and satellite we can keep up with all the news we wish to see. I love the US, but know there are many other places with a good way of life. The Mexican people are welcoming and great to us and we speak Spanish as much as possible and appreciate their culture.
We will never go back to the states no matter what happens. But, I hope that reason and truth somehow overcome the plague that is crippling our country, and I'm not talking about the virus. Yes, we are still citizens and pay taxes there and care about what happens. But, we prefer to live somewhere else.

Some parts of Mexico are more expensive than others. But, generally the cost of living is about 60% of what it is in the states, even less in some places. We have a three bedroom three bath house with a pool and a view of the lake..$900 US a month. Power bill about $60 a month, no heating or air required here, just ceiling fans and low humidity. A dinner for two with wine, appetizer, and desert will run $30-$40 and there are a lot of good restaurants in our area. I belong to a beautiful golf club and pay about $220 a month for all the golf I can play M-F with a a cart if wanted.

all the time, and how you just have to know where to go and where not to go, but knowing who to trust is hard (on the internet). Bottom line, we want to relocate, but we don't want to be kidnapped and have our fingers sent back to the US for ransom. Did you go through a realtor or a service? How do you find the safe cities to look for? It sounds like you have the life I want. Well done!!!

There are some areas that you need to avoid, but everyone is aware of them. 95% of violent crime here is between the drug gangs, or the gangs and the police and military.
There are no mass killings in restaurants, churches, theaters, rock concerts, schools etc. It just doesn't happen. There are robberies, burglaries, break-ins...we had a tv stolen. But, hell, I had a cabin in South Carolina that was broken into and then burned. Stuff happens everywhere, but we feel safer here than we did walking the streets in the US.
Google will reveal many sites about areas of Mexico that are great places to live. Check out the Lake Chapala/Ajijic area where we live.

but are 100% willing to learn, do you find people are kind about it? I was 16 the first time I went to Paris and it was bordering on traumatizing how hostile people were that I couldn't communicate well in French. (and I tried). Rude rude rude people in Paris! (In Southern France, the people were amazing!) What's your experience where you are? Should we wait until we are mostly fluent?

But, the Mexican people are more forgiving. If you are serious about considering a move do what I did and start learning some basic stuff before you come. There are all kinds of CDS, DVDs and on-line courses that are free and have all levels.
The area where we live you can get by without speaking any Spanish, which is unfortunate, imo, because it shows a lack of respect to the Mexicans. I am certainly not fluent, even after five years, but I can speak it and read it well. Understanding everything someone says in Spanish can still be a challenge,especially on the phone. But, I still study some and try to speak it as often as possible. It's very good for your brain to learn a new language. I've lived out of the country three times and found that people will open up to you much easier if you just attempt to speak some of their language.

a quote from Isaac Asimov and say that "Violence is the last refuge of" those who have exhausted
peaceful means. My addition is in bold.

The original quote is: "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Isaac Asimov, Salvor Hardin in "Foundation"
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/29885.html

Of course Isaac was writing a novel at the time. From what I know of Issac I can only say that his true
feelings were closer to my addition above.

When he wrote "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent," he always include amazing characters who were able to overcome any adversity with their magnificent brilliance. It would be nice if real life worked that way.

Regarding your addition of "... those who have exhausted peaceful means," I get it.

We've had one civil war that had geographic boundaries. If we have another one, it will be neighbor against neighbor. How do you think that will work out?

There has to be a third way. But most importantly, we must prevent them from stealing it all this November. Now is the time for amazing characters with magnificent brilliance.

Last edited Wed May 20, 2020, 09:53 AM - Edit history (1)

at the Philadelphia Navy Yard during WWII...how 'bout that.

I think we have to work in the most productive way possible. But most of the history, philosophy and psychology I've come across don't discount violence as a valid solution. So let's keep our options
open. That's apparent when we study The American Revolution, The American Civil War and other
movements for social change and wars large and small...

I see that there are more of US then there are of THEM and sometimes WE don't pick our tactics,
THEY do...

America isn't Cuba of the 1950s that can be overthrown by a rebel band.

We have the biggest, most powerful arsenal in the history of the world. And if Trump remains in power, do you think he'd hesitate to use it? He will, unless the Joint Chief of staff won't let him. And that would be a military coup d'etat. If the military took over and ousted Trump, would they hold power, or, through some way or another return power to civilian rule. And if so, who is it they'd return that power to?

All of this is hypothetical bullshit. But one thing that isn't hypothetical is that if Trump gets another term, and the military doesn't revolt, he will do whatever is necessary to tighten his grasp on power. Hell, he'd nuke San Francisco in a heartbeat if he didn't like something Bill Gates said.

get away with their shit.

The patriots of America will not except Trump stealing an election a second time. The first time we were caught off guard. We thought Trump would be impeached and removed for stealing the election. We believed in the process, the law. The law failed us.

If Trump steals the election again, we already know the law will not do anything about it. The patriots of America would rebel. They would have no choice.

Last edited Mon May 18, 2020, 12:08 PM - Edit history (1)

is claiming that the Left is trying to steal the election by pushing mail in voting for one thing. We are on a collision course here. Prepare accordingly.

It will come together fast.

those absentee ballots, illegally.

This article is about his Social Security fraud, but it also mentions the absentee ballot fraud and explains the crimes committed there TOO. https://www.wccbcharlotte.com/2020/04/22/north-carolina-political-operative-mccrae-dowless-now-facing-federal-fraud-charges/

I don't really expect you to remember everything and none of this is directed at you. I just want to vent, because of the crap Republicans do and have done in my district, specifically, that still pisses me off to no end.

I know here in NC, they are out of control and just running roughshod over citizens, the courts, and everyone else while they are at it. Nothing is being done about them. They just thumb their noses at the courts and do whatever they want, including gerrymandering my district.

I am still pissed off that I have a Republican "representative" after that election fraud and their subsequent freebie of getting to pick another candidate and change horses midstream.

I honestly don't know what to do about them stealing elections. I think the opposite of how NC handled it, because we still ended up with a Republican "representative" after they committed election fraud and gerrymandered my district and thumbed their noses at the court when the court pointed out to them that they gerrymandered districts with "surgical precision" against AAs.

I wish I knew the answer to your question. I know how NC handled it was barely a slap on the wrist and they STILL got their candidate in office anyhow, because of the double cheating in my district; both gerrymandering AND election fraud.

Wait for someone else to start something?

I don't have any ideas, either. I look to DU for hope, direction, inspiration, and information. To see that the smartest minds on the internet have no ideas for a plan B is terrifying. I wish I had something to offer. I'm not even confident I'll survive the virus. The good news is that I have life insurance. At least that will help whoever survives in my family

for good.

That said, odds are better than even if Joe and other Ds win he/they won't let it stand without a fight.

Somewhere where it isn't too cold. How many fingers am I holding up? How many fingers do you want it to be.

I know it's a possibility, however it is a possibility too terrifying to contemplate at the moment.

elections unless they are very close and this one won't be...in the words of President Obama VOTE.

I'm trying to alert everyone that the Republicans can steal this election. Is that negative?

And I'm also desperately searching for an answer to what we can do after (and perhaps before) they can do it. That serves no purpose?

If you believe that the Republican Party doesn't present a threat to America and the rest of the world, I can't possibly agree with your zeitgeist.

Trump openly stealing the election would set off a spontaneous reaction from the patriots of America. It would not be accepted. The rule of law would break down because there would be no law. I don't think anyone can predict what exactly will happen if Trump steals the election. It won't be pretty or peaceful, that's for sure.

Headed up by the oligarchs in Saudi Arabia and Russia. One can't simply go somewhere else and avoid the effects of eroding democracies. That being said, I'd go somewhere else.

For real!!!

We found that out in 2000 and 2004.