Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

kairos12

(12,874 posts)
Sun May 24, 2020, 02:55 PM May 2020

What U.S. Grant reminds us.

The brilliance of Grant was his recognition that he had to win the war, and all Lee had to do was not lose it.

Drumpt is like Lee, he has essentially the solid Confederacy behind him. After that, he just needs to play defense and hold on to a bare electoral college he "won" in 2016. No expansion of the map for Red Don.

For Biden to win he will have to go on the offensive, in a large way, in the Blue states dems lost in 2016. I'm sure his strategists know this. He may have to expand the map to at least AZ. I read an analysis that if every state votes the same way, but Michigan and Pennsylvania goes blue, and Wisconsin still goes for Drumpt, we lose. Barely.

Lee had a tremendous advantage with interior lines of communication. Drumpt has a similar advantage: power of the pulpit, a sophisticated Facebook lying ad attack strategy, a SCOTUS in his back pocket, Faux News propaganda, voter suppression efforts, BS electoral college system, and Putin possibly changing votes.

Grant faced even more challenging odds in the summer of 1864. He was undaunted and ruthless in carrying out his strategy he knew to be correct. In Grant's immortal words," I propose to fight it out on this line, if it takes all summer."

Our Republic needed those words then in an actual war, and we need them now in the political fight of our lives.






12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
What U.S. Grant reminds us. (Original Post) kairos12 May 2020 OP
Interesting analogy empedocles May 2020 #1
Sherman's hit them where it hurts should not be overlooked either. mobeau69 May 2020 #2
He made Georgia howl. Sneederbunk May 2020 #10
Took the war to the home front. nt mobeau69 May 2020 #12
Indeed. Let's finish this. nt coti May 2020 #3
Great analogy! kentuck May 2020 #4
There is no question... Newest Reality May 2020 #5
I have always been inspired by him. kairos12 May 2020 #7
Thanks! Newest Reality May 2020 #9
BTW kairos12 May 2020 #11
Hard to look at Lee (and the Confederacy) as having tremendous advantages... hlthe2b May 2020 #6
We are, and Joe knows it. Joinfortmill May 2020 #8

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
5. There is no question...
Sun May 24, 2020, 03:13 PM
May 2020

There is no question in my mind that the Trump Debacle(tm) has to end if we are to avoid some extremely bad consequences that are easy to extrapolate from what we have seen so far.

There can be no place for authoritarian tyranny in our democracy even though a minority of our population is not able to discern that to be the case. They are a minority that protesteth too loudly on their own behalf and even as agents, (wittingly or unwittingly) of fortune for oligarchs and theocrats. They appear to not be for the whole or interested in our collective integrity as a nation.

Let's make this clear: under the Trump Regime(tm) democracy is not only threatened, it is doomed. That's not sensationalism or hyperbole. In fact it is only a tip of an iceberg of frozen sewage.

We are facing the election of a lifetime, let there be no doubts about it. That can be our cry for unity among us and our rally call. It really has to be. The other option is unthinkable and unacceptable for ourselves, our country and even for those who may not have the sense or understanding to know what they are encouraging and supporting and how it is against both their real self interests and any real freedom they may still enjoy. We know what is at stake here and we do need to get our hearts and minds around it.

This is a very high stakes game and a battle of great magnitude. I know we will all consider that carefully and put it at the forefront of our ambitions in order that we may continue our legacy of freedom and start to transform this society in light of what we have seen when the mask was pulled off by this crisis. We can and will progress and we don't need normal, we need what really works for a change. We see that normal was largely subsistence living for a majority of us; something akin to sharecropping for corporations or living as Serfs in a Feudal Fiefdom. This could be an grand opportunity in disguise if we want it to be. Do we? Really?

Thanks for that info about Grant. I found it to be inspirational.

kairos12

(12,874 posts)
7. I have always been inspired by him.
Sun May 24, 2020, 03:21 PM
May 2020

Another story I have heard about Grant.

After the battle of the Wilderness, a bloody stalemate at best, Union troops were used to retreating out of Virginia. It is said, and perhaps there is a painting, of Grant on horseback in the pouring rain at a trail intersection. As his infantry approached the crossroads where he was sitting the trail led either right retreating to union territory, or left to continue the fight further into Virginia.

In his slouch hat, dripping with rain, as his regiments approached him, Grant took the cigar out of his mouth and pointed left. The troops cheered because they knew, at that point, the Confederacy was doomed.

I think of Grant often at that intersection when Dems want to retreat. There is no retreat.

BTW, I enjoy your takes on political science and philosophy.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
9. Thanks!
Sun May 24, 2020, 03:35 PM
May 2020

I like those stories. They really are motivating and uplifting. Here we go again? It is a different context, but the value and impetus are similar, so your inspirations are on spot.

No retreat! This is going to be important. We all need to get the importance and impetus for what is to come, and this is where it starts. Right here, now.

Oh, and thanks for letting me know that you enjoy my rambles

kairos12

(12,874 posts)
11. BTW
Sun May 24, 2020, 03:52 PM
May 2020

The History Channel has a special on Grant starting tomorrow night. 4 hours I think. It runs for 2 or 3 nights I think. It looks great.

hlthe2b

(102,378 posts)
6. Hard to look at Lee (and the Confederacy) as having tremendous advantages...
Sun May 24, 2020, 03:18 PM
May 2020

The one somewhat realistic part of Gone With The Wind to me was always the scene at the Wilkes Barbeque where all the young excited machismo-filled young Southern men discuss the coming civil war and profess how the South would beat those "cowardly" Yankees in days. Then Rhett Butler injects some badly needed realism that of course was taken as an insult--that the South lacked foundries to make cannon and armaments, lacked shipyards and a fleet that the North would use to bottle up Southern harbors ("all we got is cotton, slaves, and arrogance" ).

Lee learned a lot at West Point and had some skills, I suppose, but it is hard for me to think of him or the South having the advantage.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»What U.S. Grant reminds u...