thieves who flood into stores with bashed doors to steal for themselves or to sell on ebay or in flee markets, some are certainly right-wingers pretending to be antifa and trying to make black people, the left and the entire protest movement look like it's all about looting. They know that violence is going to get all the media attention and thus discredit and damage the movement in the eyes of much of the viewing public. There are too many captured video moments of black-clad white men systematically breaking store windows on down the line of a block of stores, or breaking up sidewalks with sledge hammers to get chunks of concrete to throw at cops or setting fires for there not to be some organized group/s behind that activity, recruiting people and funding their travel and lodging.

But the window bashers, fire setters and looters are only a small percentage of the entire protest crowds.

No need for us to play up the violence and looting as if it's the main thrust of the protests, leave that to the media.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

trying to stop another white who's carrying a protest sign, that's your proof that white nationalists are not behind some of the window bashing and fire setting in all the cities that demonstrations have happened.

Come on, surely you can do better than that.

Here's something from the other side of this argument that also is not proof, or verifiable.


By Ben Collins, Brandy Zadrozny and Emmanuelle Saliba

A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.

The spokesperson said the account violated the company's platform manipulation and spam policy, specifically the creation of fake accounts. Twitter suspended the account after a tweet that incited violence.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142505557

I express my opinion. You're entitled to post your own.

Wouldn't you say there are people on all sides trying to sway public minds one way or another on the credibility of the protests—some right, some left, and then some who just like to break shit up and others who go in and steal behind them.

Is it any surprise that the people choose to apply economic pressure to the system to seek change? Burning buildings, shutting down cities, stopping commerce... eventually these actions will force change.

I am quite frankly sick and tired of people crying about the oppressed rising up. Going decades ... say to the beating of Rodney King... how much has changed using the conventional tactics of peaceful protest and the ballot box?

Black men are still being murdered by police month after month, year after year.

When is enough enough? When is it time to acknowledge the system isn’t working, isn’t going to work, and that a more forceful approach is required?

..."applying pressure to the system to seek change"?

People ransacking a Target store, on an individual basis, are not doing it with the intention of applying political pressure. But it DOES apply political pressure when done at scale. Think of how bacteria evolves to become resistant to antibiotics ... this is the evolution of protest to become resistant to constant systemic racism and oppression.

There is a reason that over 140 cities in the US have experienced an extremely tumultuous week. What do you think that reason is, and why is this time different from far more localized protest / discord?

People are waking up to the fact that conventional methods have not worked for decades, are not working now, and are not going to work in the future.

I’m proud of every single person who is out in the streets today and for this past week.

Intentionally and unintentionally.

Erik Prince's militia....


War Contractor Erik Prince Has Close Ties to White House & Report Reveals His Dirty Tricks for Trump
https://www.democracynow.org/2020/3/10/war_contractor_erik_prince_has_close

As you say, they've been emboldened by Trump to be open and confrontational. But that doesn't mean it is their only strategy, and fomenting unrest in this particular context not only destroys property in some minority-owned neighborhoods, but also (in their mind) discredits the BLM movement and could inspire increased police/military retaliation. So it's advantageous for them, in this moment, to be discreet, whereas it normally isn't.

But they aren't the only ones. There are likely some who are more generically anarchist (left or right), some who are simply wanting to cause trouble and break things, and some who are just criminal opportunists.

out there. As you say, some to discredit the movement, some to gain monetarily, some who just like the thrill of destruction and some who think ramping up the intensity and violence will spur change one way or another.

to wear masks and t-shirts with ANTIFA printed on them as they vandalized buildings Sunday.

Does anyone believe that a real antifa would advertise who they are in that manner?

I think the white nationalist are more involved in the incidents occurring in recent days.

People lost their jobs and the Charlottesville rally turned into a disaster for them.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/documenting-hate-new-american-nazis/

I strongly suspect that most of the looting and property damage are done by opportunists, who are using legitimate protesters as a sort of shield or cover.

Then again, I support the looting and vandalism. I make no excuses for it. I find it to be more than understandable. I refuse to play whataboutism. I will make no excuses, apologize, or act shocked and outraged. Systemic governmental oppression and the depths of racism in society is where my outrage is directed. Vandalism and looting is a more successful tactic than most are willing to admit or they are simply uneducated as to its history.

Do I think White Nationalists are taking part in it? Yes. Do I think at some points they are even helping to get the ball rolling? Yes. Do I think they are largely behind it on the ground? No.

It is not all white nazis. If you have honestly been following the news you will see evidence of that such as here. I posted this article. 3 people, two lawyers were arrested for throwing molotov cocktails into police cars in Brooklyn.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/nyregion/nyc-protests-lawyer-molotov-cocktail.html