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farmbo

(3,122 posts)
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 06:18 PM Jun 2020

Police Unions are no longer a force for Good. This might fix it.

Mayors and City Councils should decertify police unions, but blend the police rank and file into existing public employee unions like SEIU or AFSCME.

Presently the center of gravity in police union leadership elections skews toward the most loudmouthed, confrontational, circle-the-wagons type leader; sort of like an election in a crappy, gerrymandered congressional district.

However, if city employees from Parks & Rec, Jobs & Family Services, Utilities, and Fire were also voting for the union leadership, a broad array of community voices would be heard. The ensuing Collective Bargaining Agreements would begin to consider the interests of the whole community, not just the cops.

All of these municipal workers ‘protect and serve’ their communities in their own ways so the union members would share a common purpose. Guardians, not warriors.

And union membership would remain strong.

29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Police Unions are no longer a force for Good. This might fix it. (Original Post) farmbo Jun 2020 OP
Interesting concept Sherman A1 Jun 2020 #1
Do mayors and city councils have the authority to decertify unions? Squinch Jun 2020 #2
Probably varies by jurisdiction farmbo Jun 2020 #4
No, the jurisdiction has nothing to do with it. A union is a collective Squinch Jun 2020 #5
Maybe defund them at the end of their CBA? farmbo Jun 2020 #8
Unions fund themselves. Squinch Jun 2020 #10
Automatic dues deducted from pay safeinOhio Jun 2020 #3
And watch what is left of the middle class disappear. Squinch Jun 2020 #6
Not going after unions (see above) farmbo Jun 2020 #9
Stopping the automatic deduction defunds unions. If you Squinch Jun 2020 #12
Yes you are druidity33 Jun 2020 #15
ABSOLUTELY NOT! druidity33 Jun 2020 #13
There "Right to Work" laws in 28 states now. safeinOhio Jun 2020 #17
It' a tactic druidity33 Jun 2020 #20
Yep and I'm proud to steal it safeinOhio Jun 2020 #22
what you are proposing druidity33 Jun 2020 #23
48 year dues paying member safeinOhio Jun 2020 #25
The RW would love that Jake Stern Jun 2020 #18
That is the wrong solution because it will harm working people outside of police unions KSNY Jun 2020 #24
... the union of California prison workers.. they promote draconian sentencing laws for job security Demovictory9 Jun 2020 #7
I agree pattyloutwo Jun 2020 #11
This just isn't how this works. Squinch Jun 2020 #14
That is a very interesting idea, well worth discussing at all levels... Hekate Jun 2020 #16
What about the idea of the union providing liability insurance? RainCaster Jun 2020 #19
There is a way to decertify a Union shop... druidity33 Jun 2020 #21
Then, it's hopeless. 😞 Duppers Jun 2020 #26
Maybe that's why Cities are looking at de-funding PDs farmbo Jun 2020 #28
Yup, that's the plan... druidity33 Jun 2020 #29
Good plan. nt oasis Jun 2020 #27

Squinch

(50,956 posts)
2. Do mayors and city councils have the authority to decertify unions?
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 06:25 PM
Jun 2020

My union is an agreement among me and the other members. The mayor has nothing to do with it and it would make no sense if he did.

farmbo

(3,122 posts)
4. Probably varies by jurisdiction
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 06:31 PM
Jun 2020

Some may require a Statewide initiative or legislative actions.
Just some food for thought

Squinch

(50,956 posts)
5. No, the jurisdiction has nothing to do with it. A union is a collective
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 06:34 PM
Jun 2020

of its members. It is an agreement among its members to negotiate as a bloc.

Squinch

(50,956 posts)
6. And watch what is left of the middle class disappear.
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 06:34 PM
Jun 2020

This is a policing issue, not a union issue. If you go after unions over this you play right into Mitch McConnells hands.

farmbo

(3,122 posts)
9. Not going after unions (see above)
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 07:00 PM
Jun 2020

In fact, this would result in a more powerful ( and probably Democratic- leaning) Union.

Squinch

(50,956 posts)
12. Stopping the automatic deduction defunds unions. If you
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 07:10 PM
Jun 2020

do it to one, you open the door to doing it to all of them which invariably results in the collapse of the union.

We need more unions if we want to fight capital. Not fewer.

druidity33

(6,446 posts)
13. ABSOLUTELY NOT!
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 07:10 PM
Jun 2020

That will affect every other Union in a negative way. An absolutely terrible idea that has been pushed by the Federalist society and Republicans for YEARS. Please do not entertain this idea... it's BAD.

safeinOhio

(32,690 posts)
17. There "Right to Work" laws in 28 states now.
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 08:24 PM
Jun 2020

In all of them police and firemen are not covered.

I use the same language and logic to promote “Right to Vote” laws for every state. I reuse the 1761 slogan of the Founders, “No Taxation Without Representation”. A Citizen that is not allowed to vote for any reason, shall be exempt from all local, state and federal taxes.

safeinOhio

(32,690 posts)
22. Yep and I'm proud to steal it
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 09:09 PM
Jun 2020

for good reason. Every action has an equal opposite reaction. Just needs a little kick.

druidity33

(6,446 posts)
23. what you are proposing
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 09:16 PM
Jun 2020

hurts every Union worker out there. As an organizer and a steward i say, "A pox on you!" (playfully and with Shakespearean vitriol). I have to ask because i've never taken objection to other stuff i've read by you... are you on the wrong website right now? Most of the Democrats i know are, you know, actually in favor of Unions. But i'm not getting that sense from you at this moment. And quite frankly what you're saying isn't making a heckuva lot of sense.







safeinOhio

(32,690 posts)
25. 48 year dues paying member
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 11:14 PM
Jun 2020

I retired 18 years ago because of my contracts that I gladly stood pickets lines. I also, volunteered to pay those dues, as it is not required, for those 18 years.
No ones is more pro union than me. I do not count police unions are unions in any traditional way.
I don’t expect any any of my ideas will ever see any success. My point is make people think and act their own way.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
18. The RW would love that
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 08:29 PM
Jun 2020

For years they’ve been pushing a similar narrative about teachers unions and other public sector unions: that the unions protect bad teachers and incompetent bureaucrats.

A move like that would give them ammo to use to finish off public sector unions once and for all.

Demovictory9

(32,457 posts)
7. ... the union of California prison workers.. they promote draconian sentencing laws for job security
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 06:50 PM
Jun 2020

horrible horrible

pattyloutwo

(279 posts)
11. I agree
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 07:08 PM
Jun 2020

They need to be restructured. They usually support police at any cost instead of looking at the incident fairly.

Hekate

(90,714 posts)
16. That is a very interesting idea, well worth discussing at all levels...
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 07:14 PM
Jun 2020

As a former County employee, I'm not sure why SEIU or AFSCME wouldn't be a good fit, ultimately. Cops are public employees, not a separate army arrayed against the public. They should see themselves as public servants in more than name only.

RainCaster

(10,886 posts)
19. What about the idea of the union providing liability insurance?
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 08:32 PM
Jun 2020

The really have no skin in the game right now.

druidity33

(6,446 posts)
21. There is a way to decertify a Union shop...
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 09:07 PM
Jun 2020

but what you describe isn't it. The only way to decertify a SHOP (Precincts or districts maybe for the Police) is if the Union SHOP-MEMBERS vote in a Majority to decertify the Union. IOW, the people being represented have to be unhappy with their representation. I think that is unlikely to happen in any "cop shop" in the nation.



Duppers

(28,125 posts)
26. Then, it's hopeless. 😞
Mon Jun 8, 2020, 05:25 AM
Jun 2020

Anyway to fit the mess?

On edit:
This sounds like a good solution:

First thing is to get the white nationalist off police forces.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213557105#post2

farmbo

(3,122 posts)
28. Maybe that's why Cities are looking at de-funding PDs
Mon Jun 8, 2020, 09:50 AM
Jun 2020

druidity33 has a point about legal obstacles to de-certification. But rogue unions can't exist if they no longer have a workplace. So De-fund them then re-fund them. Hire the good cops back under AFSCME (or other union) the next day. All the rogue cops would refuse to re-join and move down to Brevard Co. Fla. (See Babylonsister's most recent post)

P.S. Trump is already trying to demagogue on the "Defund the PDs" meme. We'll need to re-brand the movement and I would start with "Police Union reform".

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