General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPolice Unions are no longer a force for Good. This might fix it.
Mayors and City Councils should decertify police unions, but blend the police rank and file into existing public employee unions like SEIU or AFSCME.
Presently the center of gravity in police union leadership elections skews toward the most loudmouthed, confrontational, circle-the-wagons type leader; sort of like an election in a crappy, gerrymandered congressional district.
However, if city employees from Parks & Rec, Jobs & Family Services, Utilities, and Fire were also voting for the union leadership, a broad array of community voices would be heard. The ensuing Collective Bargaining Agreements would begin to consider the interests of the whole community, not just the cops.
All of these municipal workers protect and serve their communities in their own ways so the union members would share a common purpose. Guardians, not warriors.
And union membership would remain strong.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)Might be worth considering.
Squinch
(50,956 posts)My union is an agreement among me and the other members. The mayor has nothing to do with it and it would make no sense if he did.
farmbo
(3,122 posts)Some may require a Statewide initiative or legislative actions.
Just some food for thought
Squinch
(50,956 posts)of its members. It is an agreement among its members to negotiate as a bloc.
farmbo
(3,122 posts)Then re-hire them under AFSCME.
Squinch
(50,956 posts)safeinOhio
(32,690 posts)checks need to stop. Let them pay only if they wish to.
Squinch
(50,956 posts)This is a policing issue, not a union issue. If you go after unions over this you play right into Mitch McConnells hands.
farmbo
(3,122 posts)In fact, this would result in a more powerful ( and probably Democratic- leaning) Union.
Squinch
(50,956 posts)do it to one, you open the door to doing it to all of them which invariably results in the collapse of the union.
We need more unions if we want to fight capital. Not fewer.
druidity33
(6,446 posts)and no it wouldn't.
druidity33
(6,446 posts)That will affect every other Union in a negative way. An absolutely terrible idea that has been pushed by the Federalist society and Republicans for YEARS. Please do not entertain this idea... it's BAD.
safeinOhio
(32,690 posts)In all of them police and firemen are not covered.
I use the same language and logic to promote Right to Vote laws for every state. I reuse the 1761 slogan of the Founders, No Taxation Without Representation. A Citizen that is not allowed to vote for any reason, shall be exempt from all local, state and federal taxes.
druidity33
(6,446 posts)ginned up by corporatists and libertarians to hobble Unions.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/right-to-work-laws_n_6737130
https://truthout.org/articles/whats-wrong-with-the-right-to-work/
https://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/economy/reports/2017/05/18/167539/right-work-harm-americans/
safeinOhio
(32,690 posts)for good reason. Every action has an equal opposite reaction. Just needs a little kick.
druidity33
(6,446 posts)hurts every Union worker out there. As an organizer and a steward i say, "A pox on you!" (playfully and with Shakespearean vitriol). I have to ask because i've never taken objection to other stuff i've read by you... are you on the wrong website right now? Most of the Democrats i know are, you know, actually in favor of Unions. But i'm not getting that sense from you at this moment. And quite frankly what you're saying isn't making a heckuva lot of sense.
safeinOhio
(32,690 posts)I retired 18 years ago because of my contracts that I gladly stood pickets lines. I also, volunteered to pay those dues, as it is not required, for those 18 years.
No ones is more pro union than me. I do not count police unions are unions in any traditional way.
I dont expect any any of my ideas will ever see any success. My point is make people think and act their own way.
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)For years theyve been pushing a similar narrative about teachers unions and other public sector unions: that the unions protect bad teachers and incompetent bureaucrats.
A move like that would give them ammo to use to finish off public sector unions once and for all.
KSNY
(315 posts)Demovictory9
(32,457 posts)horrible horrible
pattyloutwo
(279 posts)They need to be restructured. They usually support police at any cost instead of looking at the incident fairly.
Squinch
(50,956 posts)Hekate
(90,714 posts)As a former County employee, I'm not sure why SEIU or AFSCME wouldn't be a good fit, ultimately. Cops are public employees, not a separate army arrayed against the public. They should see themselves as public servants in more than name only.
RainCaster
(10,886 posts)The really have no skin in the game right now.
druidity33
(6,446 posts)but what you describe isn't it. The only way to decertify a SHOP (Precincts or districts maybe for the Police) is if the Union SHOP-MEMBERS vote in a Majority to decertify the Union. IOW, the people being represented have to be unhappy with their representation. I think that is unlikely to happen in any "cop shop" in the nation.
Duppers
(28,125 posts)Anyway to fit the mess?
On edit:
This sounds like a good solution:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213557105#post2
farmbo
(3,122 posts)druidity33 has a point about legal obstacles to de-certification. But rogue unions can't exist if they no longer have a workplace. So De-fund them then re-fund them. Hire the good cops back under AFSCME (or other union) the next day. All the rogue cops would refuse to re-join and move down to Brevard Co. Fla. (See Babylonsister's most recent post)
P.S. Trump is already trying to demagogue on the "Defund the PDs" meme. We'll need to re-brand the movement and I would start with "Police Union reform".
druidity33
(6,446 posts)My contract would be voided if the business i worked for folded. A good example is of Camden, NJ... I'm hoping someone can find another example. But the Defund/Abolish the Police movement has some real valid points.
https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-camden-disbands-police-force-for-new-department.html
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/protests/stopping-systemic-racism-in-police-departments-protests/65-c8f377a4-c2d4-4659-86e0-3fd13ec3dbc2
Also:
https://bostonreview.net/law-justice/derecka-purnell-what-does-police-abolition-mean
And:
https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/06/police-abolition-george-floyd/