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brooklynite

(94,598 posts)
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 07:41 PM Jun 2020

Let's be clear about what the Minneapolis "defund the police" story means...and what it doesn't.

The Minneapolis City Council can choose to replace the MPD with some other law enforcement structure and policies. They can replace the police chief and senior leadership. But they CANNOT get rid of police officers in one fell swoop.

The City of Minneapolis has labor contracts with the Police Unions. I guarantee that they can’t be arbitrarily laid off and forced to re-apply for their jobs. Whatever new law enforcement structure is implemented, it will be staffed by existing police officers and sergeants, absent cause for dismissal. One assumes however that they will have a new reporting structure and new assignments and policies for which they can be held responsible in the future.

Some people have pointed to Reagan firing the air traffic controllers as a model, but that doesn’t apply here. The PATCO union voted to go on strike, in violation of their contract and a Court injunction, and their members were fired on that basis.

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Let's be clear about what the Minneapolis "defund the police" story means...and what it doesn't. (Original Post) brooklynite Jun 2020 OP
Can't the Police officers de-certify the union? Turbineguy Jun 2020 #1
On what legal basis? brooklynite Jun 2020 #4
The cops themselves can opt not to participate in the union. But they're the only Squinch Jun 2020 #9
Terms like "disband" and "defund" aren't really accurate, and don't describe The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2020 #2
yes, those terms are hurting the cause. Grasswire2 Jun 2020 #3
and I can see this becoming an active republican strategy to try and use against us still_one Jun 2020 #5
it already is Grasswire2 Jun 2020 #8
And what's more Turbineguy Jun 2020 #16
Thanks for the perspective still_one Jun 2020 #6
The union contract is up for negotiation fulllib Jun 2020 #7
Beautiful - perfect timing for a substantive, structural change Fiendish Thingy Jun 2020 #11
Let's add,the MPD Federation is not Wellstone ruled Jun 2020 #12
Perfect timing for a badly needed overhaul. Blue_true Jun 2020 #14
Your assertions are not necessarily true Fiendish Thingy Jun 2020 #10
Here's what happened in the 8 years since Camden, NJ disbanded their police department... SeattleVet Jun 2020 #13
Very interesting. mzmolly Jun 2020 #15
Regional or county police forces are probably the future DeminPennswoods Jun 2020 #17

Squinch

(50,955 posts)
9. The cops themselves can opt not to participate in the union. But they're the only
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 08:04 PM
Jun 2020

ones who can disband the union.

I imagine after the current contract is over, the city is free to contract with another organization for their policing.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,735 posts)
2. Terms like "disband" and "defund" aren't really accurate, and don't describe
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 07:45 PM
Jun 2020

what they want to do. What they are trying to do is reassign certain community functions to people who are not regular police officers. There will still be officers whose job will be to deal with serious crimes, but with proper training in the use of non-violent arrest techniques wherever possible, de-escalation of violent situations and using equitable, non-racist enforcement processes. Other functions will be spun off to social workers and psychologists who know how to handle problematic behaviors of people who are mentally ill or intoxicated (and not just shoot them or tase them). Most routine traffic enforcement can be handled by other personnel or with cameras. The point is that we don't need heavily-armed, militarized police officers for everything, so they propose to reorganize the department and re-direct funding - not eliminate the entire law enforcement function of the police department. Obviously they can't just fire everybody but they can do some retraining and reassigning for starters. https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/councilor-describes-what-minneapolis-with-fewer-police-could-look-like

Grasswire2

(13,571 posts)
3. yes, those terms are hurting the cause.
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 07:51 PM
Jun 2020

And RW is taking full advantage of the confusion, using it to scare people.

Very unfortunate.

Turbineguy

(37,343 posts)
16. And what's more
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 09:42 PM
Jun 2020

turning out the bad cops without any option provides skilled persons for our own version of that South and Central American favorite, right-wing death squads.

fulllib

(234 posts)
7. The union contract is up for negotiation
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 07:54 PM
Jun 2020

Minneapolitan here- The current union contract is currently up. The Police Federation, the current union, has been delaying contract negotiations, thinking a more police-favorable council would be coming after elections. The council can do a few things, including add citizen reps to the negotiation table, or possibly de-certify the union all together.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,624 posts)
11. Beautiful - perfect timing for a substantive, structural change
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 08:29 PM
Jun 2020

And if the cops don’t like it, they can strike, and if they strike, they just might be out of luck and a job.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
12. Let's add,the MPD Federation is not
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 08:41 PM
Jun 2020

Recognized by the AFL-CIO as well as the Twin City Labor Council. Years ago,the MPLS PD was Represented by Teamsters Local 120 as well as most to the States Police Departments and Sheriff Departments.

How times changed for the worse.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
14. Perfect timing for a badly needed overhaul.
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 08:48 PM
Jun 2020

Let the contract lapse. If police strike, fire them all. Regardless, create a police force that is less threatening to it's citizens.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,624 posts)
10. Your assertions are not necessarily true
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 08:27 PM
Jun 2020

The city council says it intends to “disband” the police department, not defund it. The intend to move to a community support model focusing on mental health and social work, jobs the current police officers would not qualify for.

I’m sure the city’s contract with the union contains a lay-off clause in case of budget cuts; as a retired county employee, I’m well acquainted with governments that eliminate whole programs and departments, laying off numerous unionized employees.

Most municipal union contracts contain clauses where employees facing layoffs can transfer or “bump” less senior workers and take those jobs, if they are qualified for them, which most LEO’s would not be, unless they held graduate degrees in psychology, social work, etc. The Paraprofessional positions they might qualify for (outreach workers, crisis intervention) would almost certainly pay less and have a much weaker benefit package.

If they completely disbanded the city police force, and contracted with, say, the county sheriff, there would be no contract and no jobs for the officers to reapply to - I suppose they could apply for any openings the county might have, but they wouldn’t have a guaranteed position, since the sheriff’s dept is likely a separate bargaining unit.

I will watch the Minneapolis city council’s actions with great interest, as it will surely set a path for other communities.

SeattleVet

(5,477 posts)
13. Here's what happened in the 8 years since Camden, NJ disbanded their police department...
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 08:42 PM
Jun 2020

and replaced it with something much better:

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/protests/stopping-systemic-racism-in-police-departments-protests/65-c8f377a4-c2d4-4659-86e0-3fd13ec3dbc2

Went from more than 60 excessive force complaints to 3; lowest crime rate in 50 years.

Here's an article from 2 years after they made the switch, describing what was done, and why:

https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-camden-disbands-police-force-for-new-department.html

Camden used to have one of the highest crime rates in the country. My wife got a call from a headhunter several years ago for a job there, and part of the 'bennies' was an escort to and from your car in the parking lot. I was familiar with the area (my ex was from Philly). We went to the Camden Chamber of Commerce website (this is the group that boosts business in the city). The very first sentence on the site was, "Camden, NJ has the highest crime rate in the nation." From the Chamber of Commerce!

DeminPennswoods

(15,286 posts)
17. Regional or county police forces are probably the future
Sun Jun 7, 2020, 09:54 PM
Jun 2020

Police contracts, benefits and especially pension payouts consume a huge percent of any municipal budget. These small police depts are literally pricing themselves out of business. There's too many p/t cops who work for multiple jurisdictions also.

If, at least in PA, consolidation of services like police, fire, schools at the county level was put on the ballot for a vote, it would pass easily - based on every conversation I've had with friends and in casual conversation with strangers. There seems to be a real appetite for it.

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