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matt819

(10,749 posts)
Tue Jun 16, 2020, 04:36 PM Jun 2020

Opening Up

One of the things that drives me nuts is when people - anywhere along the political spectrum - change their positions based almost entirely on how they have been affected.

I think I may be becoming one of those people. Damn you, COVID-19.

Stipulated:
-- The US has been massively bad at the response.
-- There is no second wave because we're still in the first wave.
-- Regardless of the massively bad response and the timing, without the shutdowns the infection rates, death rates, and death numbers would be even higher than they are now.
-- There have been increases in virus spread in states that have reopened, due to large gatherings, no masks, etc.

So, now what?

Online schooling has largely failed, for lots of reasons. We may joke about kids being glued to their screens from early ages, but the reality is that kids learn by doing, by being, learning, and playing with their classmates. Sharing, empathy, discipline, and so much more. Gone with distance learning. (Yeah, yeah, it may work with Australian children in the outback. We are not Australian, and most of us don't live in the American equivalent of the outback.) And, you know something, the teachers also value that human contact and believe they are nurturing children's minds, socialization, humanity. This is why they became teachers. Their relationships with their students are critical, and this is lost online. And then there's the practicalities. Broadband access and speed. Multiple devices needed in multi-child households. Scheduling conflicts in those situations.

And no one, really, is confident that we will be in a position to open the schools in the fall. There was an op-ed piece in the NYT the other day by a psychologist who has spent 40 years studying the late adolescent brain and behavior. In short, he says, don't count on college kids abiding by any cautionary guidance.

So, what do we do? Keep schools closed for, what, another 6 months, another year? More? Less? Because of the lack of data and the dismissal of scientific analysis, we really don't know what the costs - financial, medical, social, physical - will be if we as a society make one decision instead of another, i.e., close vs. open, with or without restrictions/conditions. At the risk of being accused of being a granny killer, I have to say that it is, or will very soon be time to discuss these issues very seriously. I'm not talking of sacrificing old people (of which I am one, I have to grudgingly admit) on the altar of the economy. Rather, I am suggesting that we look at what the risks would be in various populations by reopening schools, for example, and hoping for the best, knowing that it will be fundamentally impossible to observe social distancing. If we don't, I would suggest that this generation would be labeled The Lost Generation.

Travel. Countries are reopening, some with limits. Greece, for example, is not allowing anyone from the US or UK. People in the tourism industry there are suffering. In the "I know a guy" category - I know a guy in the tourism industry there who has friends who are, literally, going hungry because the tourism industry is effectively shut down. Opening up for EU travel may improve the situation, but excluding travelers from the US and UK is not a small barrier. How long does this situation continue before there are food riots and demands for internal regime change - Greece is only an example; the same situations may very well develop in other countries as well. There was an article in the paper the other day about how many European cities are enjoying the quiet and loveliness of their home without tourists. The canals in Venice are clean, I read. Okay, that's great. But millions depend on those tourists, and those people are probably not enjoying the quiet and loveliness as much as their compatriots.

Also with respect to travel, countries are issuing and changing travel restrictions damn near on a daily basis. People who want or need to travel are unable to make plans because they are fearful that once on the way, they could be turned back anywhere en route or at the final destination. People who need to travel because of their jobs are being hurt very badly - merchant seamen, for example. Many have been unable to leave their boats or go home. Some are stranded and not being paid. Some are dying. And the numbers are not small. Even in the private vessel side of things, people can't travel to get to their next job (and the number of available jobs is lower than every) or are hesitant to go because they fear they won't be able to return. Not an empty fear; I know a couple of guys (I love that category) who were stuck at the start of the crisis in February/March. One couldn't get out of England, another was stranded in the Caribbean. (BTW, being stuck is not the same as having a vacation.) I know, who the fuck cares about rich people. No one, really, but the people who worked for them are out of work; it may be a niche industry, but it's not a small one.

In my mind, this started out as a rant (I think), and now I'm pretty sure I'm just rambling. My point, I suppose, is that this can't go on indefinitely. Shutdown, reopen, shut down again. Unfortunately, we have absolute buffoons on the job in Washington, and while Joe Biden is a great guy, he's a great guy who is not yet the president. And very hard, very important, decisions need to be made. I admit, I can't get behind sacrificing our old people to get the economy moving again. And I certainly can't get behind anything this regime might propose. But something's gotta give if we're even going to make to November 3.

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Squinch

(50,992 posts)
2. This is bonkers. If it is necessary to keep schools closed for another 6 months to a year, then
Tue Jun 16, 2020, 04:59 PM
Jun 2020

yes, of course that is what we do. Because otherwise this plague will spread even faster, even farther, and even more people will die than the hundreds of thousands who already will.

Your concept of "granny killer" grossly misreads the situation. The fact that the elderly are the most likely to be affected doesn't mean that other groups are not. The danger to ALL age groups is real.

And travel? Are you kidding me? This isn't a spreadsheet of profit and loss. This is a fucking PANDEMIC. That means that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, will DIE. DO YOU GET IT??? It's a PANDEMIC. And we are only just at the beginning of it.

You go ahead and weigh all the factors you want to weigh. Then you travel and take some classes and do whatever else you think you can't live without doing, and risk death doing them.

I'll be over here treating this like a pandemic. Because, you know what? It's a pandemic.

uponit7771

(90,353 posts)
6. THIS!!! Look at the number of countries that RE SHUT their schools because it spreads so fast among
Tue Jun 16, 2020, 05:58 PM
Jun 2020

... kids!

iemitsu

(3,888 posts)
3. Thanks for the cheerful spin on things.
Tue Jun 16, 2020, 04:59 PM
Jun 2020

The world is in for many changes and not the least here in the US.
It's hard to anticipate what kinds of changes we face but it is clear that adapting to those changes will determine our survival.
We will need to work together and give up the "me first" attitude that so many of us have developed.
For example, wearing masks in public will probably be necessary (even for those who are now resisting).
I hope we're up to it.

Squinch

(50,992 posts)
4. This. Wearing masks profoundly reduces the spread of this plague. And let's be real:
Tue Jun 16, 2020, 05:17 PM
Jun 2020

it is NOT a big deal to wear a mask.

The fact that mask wearing is an argument in so many quarters makes me wonder if we ARE capable of giving up that "me first" attitude.

Like you, I hope we find our way to doing these very simple things, and some of the more difficult things, that will be necessary as we go through this experience.

Hugin

(33,189 posts)
5. I understand your frustration. Many of these complications are due to this virus being a 'novel'...
Tue Jun 16, 2020, 05:53 PM
Jun 2020

disease. Absolutely nothing was known about it when it emerged and there were no known treatments, therapies, or a means of prevention other than the limitations on exposure.

But, it was expected that such a disease emerging was immanent. The dramatic impacts we are seeing were known and the previous two Presidents, Obama and even Bush, were acting in an urgent proactive manner to establish the plans, infrastructure, and processes necessary to mitigate the disaster to the extent possible.

However, what happened was all of that was cast aside by Trump and the Republicans for no other reason than what would appear they didn't want to be inconvenienced by bad news or having to do some work in a perpetual re-election campaign.

The result of this willful ignorance and the following denial was there has been no organized federal level response or international cooperation to this crisis. None.

Also, due to this inaction over the past six months there has been no additional progress made on responding to the disease. No treatments, no vaccine, and little study of even the disease itself.

After six months in the United States, all we have is exponentially more of the virus and a President who chooses to believe opening everything up in full ignorance and a High Dow are the way to go. Let that sink in.

After 6 months all we have is exponentially more of the disease and the limitations on exposure. That's it.

If you want more... VOTE.

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