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Enrique

(27,461 posts)
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:27 PM Sep 2012

Romney gaffe is just like the Obama gaffe?

I hear some people already bringing up the "clinging to guns and religion" quote and on first thought, that seemed to me to be a fair comparison. But a little more thought shows that it actually shows how different Obama is from Romney.

I think the "clinging" quote is going to be used a lot in Romney's defense, so let's go to the tapes:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.

Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in heir daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.




http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/secret-video-romney-private-fundraiser

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax.

My job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
1. What Obama said was SYMPATHETIC, and no one wants to say it, but
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:30 PM
Sep 2012

spot-on true. He really does care about these people, and it always shows.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
3. Is there something
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:31 PM
Sep 2012
I hear some people already bringing up the "clinging to guns and religion" quote and on first thought, that seemed to me to be a fair comparison. But a little more thought shows that it actually shows how different Obama is from Romney.

I think the "clinging" quote is going to be used a lot in Romney's defense, so let's go to the tapes:

...that causes people to want to defend Romney or immediately throw up attempts to obfuscate?

I mean, this is beyond silly!

BumRushDaShow

(129,127 posts)
6. Apparently Schmuck Todd was in frantic mode this evening
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:34 PM
Sep 2012

because this latest mess is BAD and he's trying to throw something at it to knock it away.

But see, this isn't the first time that Rmoney has talked about "freeloaders". He did it back in July at a fundraiser after he spoke to the NAACP.

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
12. did you read the whole thing?
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:53 PM
Sep 2012

if it isn't clear, this is me attempting to debunk the idea that the gaffes are the same.

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
4. President Obama's so called gaffe was really him trying to understand those type of people
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:32 PM
Sep 2012

who may not vote for him and to try and reach out to them. Romney just could give a shit less about those of us in that "47%". F*ck him. Excuse my language but Mittens pisses me off.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
5. It's all pissing me off!
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:34 PM
Sep 2012

Romney insulted blacks, Hispanics and half the country, but you know he didn't really mean it, again, also too!

I mean, WTF? And now we have to go through known Obama statements for comparisons?

Ugh!!!

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
8. I doubt it will get much play. It is just another Mittens blunder.
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:43 PM
Sep 2012

One in a long line of many. He is setting a precedent now for foolish, idiotic, out of place statements. Mark Halperin tweeted that he will have a hard time talking his way out of this. I believe it. You should see some of the angry tweets on twitter regarding Romney. People don't just dislike him, there are people who outright detest the man now.

Generic Brad

(14,275 posts)
11. This is fodder for the comedy writers
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:49 PM
Sep 2012

This is the gaffe to end all gaffes. The Daily Show, Colbert Report, Bill Mahr, the late night talk shows, SNL - they will eat him alive over this one. Once a politician become a national joke - they are done. Romney will officially be a national joke and internet meme before this week is over.

OneGrassRoot

(22,920 posts)
7. I pre-empted conservatives with the following analysis...
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:37 PM
Sep 2012

knowing that's what they are thinking when they see Romney's comments today attacked and ridiculed. Plus, I have many family and friends from SW PA, so they remember this statement:


OBAMA (2008): "You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Granted, if the second paragraph is all someone hears, it seems to be a slam against rednecks (similar to Republican consistent slams against "welfare queens&quot .

But I get what he was saying (though he could have worded it much better). What he was saying is that people are angry for the reasons he gave in the first paragraph. I personally I believe people are afraid, and that fuels the anger.

When people are afraid, some people focus on protecting themselves and their families; when people are afraid, they turn to their faith; when people are afraid, they fear The Other.

Even during the campaign, Obama was portrayed by opponents as someone who is going to take away their guns, as someone who is a Muslim terrorist sympathize, as someone who is most definitely The Other.

He gets that. He understood it back then. Hence his statement, which I do not believe was meant as an insult whatsoever. It was a statement that he gets why people were wary of him. Many still are, and he still gets it.

Angry Dragon

(36,693 posts)
9. However it is okay for Willard to steal $10 million from the government
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:44 PM
Sep 2012

so he can go and make more money

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
10. Hardly. The President was saying that
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:47 PM
Sep 2012

it there needs to be a way to convince people to keep working toward a future when outcomes are not immediately evident in their daily lives. Like it or not, it is a message of encouragement to keep up with the struggle.

Romney has written all of these people off and to the extent that he's not going to make an effort to extend his hand to someone who is a bit down in their luck, has been decimated by health problems, or is unable to find work for any number of reasons.

How you can dive into moral equivalency on this one, I don't know. Sometimes a thing is what it is at first apprehension, and Romney is a large snorting pig trying to eat the trough.

reflection

(6,286 posts)
13. Well said, Enrique.
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:56 PM
Sep 2012

The President sees an opportunity to change minds and acknowledges the hard work ahead. Romney throws his hands up and says "it can't be done."

It's the difference between an adult and a petulant child, when faced with hard work.

spanone

(135,846 posts)
14. it's the meme that went out to the media immediately...i heard it three times from three...
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 08:58 PM
Sep 2012

different pundits on m$nbc today.

that's no coincidence imho

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