General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAunt Jemima?
A lot of people are taking sides over this, but I leaning toward Nancy Green's side. Like a lot of kids, I grew up on Jemima's pancakes and syrup and nowhere did I, my family, or anyone else in the neighborhood have or develop any racist feeling over it. In fact, in my neighborhood Jemima and Uncle Ben were two of the very few black people we knew of who weren't entertainers and we respected them. Liked them, too. This was before MLK, btw.
Our attitude as kids, and some parents, too, were that the "Mammy" caricature was not demeaning to the characters but was sympathetic to them, and somewhat heroic.
Nancy Green, the first Jemima, was born into slavery, a condition she had no control over, and managed to make the best of it. Note that she wowed the Chicago Exposition in 1889.
https://blackamericaweb.com/2013/03/28/little-known-black-history-fact-the-history-of-aunt-jemima/
In 1890, a former slave named Nancy Green was hired to be the spokesperson for Aunt Jemima brand food products.
Nancy Green was born into slavery in 1834 in Montgomery County, Kentucky. In 1889 the creators of Aunt Jemima, Charles Rutt and Charles Underwood, sold the company to R.T Davis, who soon found Nancy Green in Chicago. The previous owners had already agreed upon her look of a bandana and apron. Davis combined the Aunt Jemima look with a catchy tune from the Vaudeville circuit to make the Aunt Jemima brand.
Greens identity was first uncovered at the Worlds Columbian Exposition in 1893. There were so many people interested in the Aunt Jemima exhibit, police were called for crowd control. Green served pancakes to thousands of people. People loved her warm personality and friendly demeanor, not to mention her cooking. Green was given an award for showmanship at the exposition.
As a result of her dedication, Aunt Jemima received 50,000 orders for pancake mix. Not only did flour sales soar, but Green received a lifetime contract to serve as spokesperson. She was a living legend of the brand until she died in a car accident in September 1923.
More on Nancy Green. There are, in this article, arguments both for and against using the Jemima image today, but here's their take on Green: (Oh, and is understandable if some of the promotional pictures are kinda vile these days)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Jemima
Nancy Green was the first spokesperson hired by the R. T. Davis Milling Company for the Aunt Jemima pancake mix.[3] Green was born a slave in Montgomery County, Kentucky.[5][31] Dressed as Aunt Jemima, Green appeared at the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago, Illinois, beside the "world's largest flour barrel" (24 feet high), where she operated a pancake-cooking display, sang songs, and told romanticized stories about the Old South (a happy place for blacks and whites alike). She appeared at fairs, festivals, flea markets, food shows, and local grocery stores; her arrival heralded by large billboards featuring the caption, "I'se in town, honey."[5][9][31] She died in 1923, and was buried in an unmarked pauper's grave.
Beakybird
(3,333 posts)Pancakes and rice will live on.
Alacritous Crier
(3,816 posts)soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Canoe52
(2,948 posts)jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)For you say that "nobody in your neighborhood developed any racist feeling over it" pretty much ignores completely how stereotypes work.
https://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/mammies/
nykym
(3,063 posts)I think the least we can demand is that she receive a proper burial place with honors.
marybourg
(12,631 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 25, 2020, 05:03 PM - Edit history (1)
many years working and traveling as a spokesperson) SIDE? Unclear to me.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)She was brutally exploited.
-Laelth
Ms. Toad
(34,074 posts)She was never paid royalties for her work, or for the use of her persona.
It is pretty standard to discriminate against women and minorities by paying them as a gig, rather than for their creative contributions or their persona (name, image, likeness)
Here is an example of the practice in a more clear-cut example:
https://www.bnd.com/living/liv-columns-blogs/answer-man/article134070984.html
They tell the story of Fred Parris, who wrote the classic In the Still of the Night, which sold between 10 million and 15 million copies. But instead of earning an estimated $100,000 in royalties, he walked off with $783. Similarly, Ahmet Ertegen, the founder of Atlantic Records, remembered having a conversation with a Columbia Records executive who said the company never paid its black artists royalties.
MacKasey
(987 posts)To respect Nancy Green as the original
JustFiveMoreMinutes
(2,133 posts)LeftInTX
(25,364 posts)The owners of the company and creators of the Self-Rising Pancake Flour were white.
She was just part of the advertisement.
Solly Mack
(90,769 posts)Alacritous Crier
(3,816 posts)Just no.
5X
(3,972 posts)Maybe I can help you out.
No one gives a flying fuck how you feel about it cause you don't have a dog in this fight.
As obnoxious as that is, your argument is just as obnoxious.
It is not how a random white person feels, but how AA's or people of color feel.
bobbieinok
(12,858 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,355 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)that people don't notice them and aren't bothered by them is an example of why they're so problematic.
I'm battling that very problem with content I'm supposed to use that is provided by a 3rd party vendor. I'm refusing to use it.
4 roles:
* smarty-pants know it all, always saves the day with the right answer (gets about 45% of the atention)
* dumb and lacks confidence
* smarter but also lacks confidence (gets about 35% of the attention)
* confident, even when they know nothing, and given repeated chances at redemption when they mess up
Characters playing those roles:
White male, white female, black female, darker/hairier male
I bet you can't guess who plays which role.
When I discussed my concern with the vendor that this reinforced every stereotype I was committed to avoiding, I was told (1) I wasn't seeing what I was seeing and (2) it was not intentional. FWIW - one of my students described the roles essentially as I did - and even recognizing those roles, he was unable to connect the characteristics of the actors with the roles to articulate the problem.
When you don't even see the insidious stereotypes, it is impossible to get rid of them.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)And let them know you disagree with their decision to drop plantation tropes to sell pancake syrup ...
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,355 posts)But seriously, this makes no sense. Aunt Jemima was not a person; she was the personification of a brand. You did not know Nancy Green. Uncle Ben was not a person; he was the personification of a brand. You did not know Frank Brown. Capitalism dehumanizes, and this is one way it does so.
Who watched Mammy's children, while she took care of the children of her boss?
Ms. Toad
(34,074 posts)bobbieinok
(12,858 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,387 posts)Its really not that complicated.
Ms. Toad
(34,074 posts)Never mind that, since she is dead, we have no idea where she stands.
highplainsdem
(48,993 posts)The term "Aunt" in this context was a southern form of address used with older enslaved peoples. They were denied use of courtesy titles.[15] A character named "Aunt Jemima" appeared on the stage in Washington, D.C., as early as 1864.[16]
Rutt's inspiration for Aunt Jemima was Billy Kersands' American-style minstrelsy/vaudeville song "Old Aunt Jemima", written in 1875. Rutt reportedly saw a minstrel show featuring the "Old Aunt Jemima" song in the fall of 1889, presented by blackface performers identified by Arthur F. Marquette as "Baker & Farrell".[4] Marquette recounts that the actor playing Aunt Jemima wore an apron and kerchief.[4][15]
However, Doris Witt at University of Iowa was unable to confirm Marquette's account.[17] Witt suggests that Rutt might have witnessed a performance by the vaudeville performer Pete F. Baker, who played characters described in newspapers of that era as "Ludwig" and "Aunt Jemima". His portrayal of the Aunt Jemima character may have been a white male in blackface, pretending to be a German immigrant, imitating a black minstrel parodying an imaginary black female slave cook.[17]
And while Nancy Green was admirable in many ways, she was being exploited to sell a product she wasn't making much money from, and even used to tell "romanticized stories about the Old South (a happy place for blacks and whites alike)" (quoting from the excerpt you quoted from the Wikipedia article).
gay texan
(2,453 posts)The name came from minstrel shows where black people were portrayed as ignorant.
Have a listen to the "Aunt Jemima" tunes from the era and tell me why black people shouldn't be offended.
GitRDun
(1,846 posts)an image of Nancy Green.
To me that honors a pioneer in her industry.
pansypoo53219
(20,978 posts)why not rebrand it as nancy's pancake mix? finally tried it & its so much better than hungry jacks.
put her actual photo on box?
cwydro
(51,308 posts)But no one cares.