General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAre you in favor of reparations to African Americans?
Put aside the amount of individual reparations. I'm talking about the concept only.
62 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited | |
Yes | |
27 (44%) |
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No | |
27 (44%) |
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Maybe/Depends | |
6 (10%) |
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Other | |
2 (3%) |
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0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
secondwind
(16,903 posts)for our brothers and sisters.
Zoonart
(11,879 posts)Simply because I cannot fathom how it would be administered. It would undoubtedly become a boondoggle that would be used in propaganda and would stymie other forms of more immediate change,
It would drain all of the energy from the crusade for justice in policing, housing and hiring.
I just don't see how it would work. Monetary justice is a systemic problem and won't be solved by a one time payout. It flows directly from racism.
UncleTomsEvilBrother
(945 posts)...how it could happen, you voted "No"?
The Crusades ended eventually. Perhaps, reparations could end this one as well, no?
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Zoonart
(11,879 posts)This is how it could happen.
What I feel kills the concept of reparations is a federal bureaucracy.... that's what I meant.
handmade34
(22,758 posts)Theres a wrong way to spend that money: trying to find the descendants of slaves and sending them a check. That would launch a politically ruinous argument over who qualifies for the money, and at the end of the day people might be left with a $1,000 check that would produce no lasting change.
Giving reparations money to neighborhoods is the way to go... ..
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/opinion/united-states-reparations.html
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Cartaphelius
(868 posts)for all that vote "NO". Heaven forbid the application of the events
and the results of slavery's unending abuse over the last 400 years.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)I model that on how some other nations grant citizenship to Americans who had one or more grandparents born in that foreign nation. At some point the past recedes into the past in terms of the direct "benefits" of traceable lineage. However I do favor major government programs and spending to mitigate the damage done to African American communities as a continuing consequence of slavery.
raccoon
(31,126 posts)Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)A male former slave born in 1860 could easily have fathered a son born in 1910 (when he was 50) .That child could than have fathered a son or daughter when he turned 50 in 1960. The grandchild of that former slave would thus be 60 years old today. There were some slaves born in 1864, and males can still father offspring well past their 50th birthday, so some grandchildren of former slaves might be 50 years old today
Polybius
(15,491 posts)So he was a slave at the time of his birth?
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)sarisataka
(18,779 posts)Born in 1790 has two living grandchildren. One of those strange quirks of history.
There could be hundreds of living grandchildren of former slaves.
still_one
(92,422 posts)McKim
(2,412 posts)Since fortunes were made off their backs, yes!!!!!! They deserve compensation for their unpaid labor and the way they have been treated since slavery ended. Many US Corporations got a great start off their labor. Its payback time for them and for Native Americans. We waste money on armaments while our people go without! This is a great use of my tax dollars! Bring it!!
Arthur_Frain
(1,862 posts)When I was young and supposed to be liberal. I even thought I could sell it to the conservatives, because of the biblical overtones it had.
I suggested that we give all African Americans a 7 year tax jubilee. For those who havent read the OT in some time, those old time Jews were big on 7 year jubilees. Taxes and debts were forgiven, slaves were freed, wives werent beaten for (most of) a year.
Thing is I did this kind of tongue in cheek. At this point, any reparations IMHO, are going to end up being symbolic. For the very reason you compartmented your poll, disallowing individual reparations. Because thats the rub right there isnt it?
I dont think we are ever going to get around to this because there is no way to come up with a solution that is going to please enough people to have any meaningful success by being enacted. Even in my tongue in cheek suggestion, how do you determine eligibility? How many generations back do you have to trace American ancestry?
Reparations are long overdue. Considering our sorry track record in point of fact, I wont be holding my breath that anything at all gets done. Ever.
tavernier
(12,406 posts)I believe free higher education should definitely be at the top of the list, for starters.
ProfessorGAC
(65,211 posts)Including guaranteed line of credit for 10 years, with full BKO sheltering in the event of failure.
And, 2 bites at the apple.
No banks. No collateral. Just low interest $ to help build an AA economic base.
This is in addition to your idea, not instead of.
tavernier
(12,406 posts)Education is always the first thing on my list because I think it is the most important key to the success of any community.
obamanut2012
(26,142 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)White women haven't had the generational harm because we come from white families who have been able to accumulate wealth.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)done. Do we hand each African American that has at least one parent that descended from slaves x dollars? What does an AA whose both parents descended from slaves get? Instead of giving each AA that fall into one of the group's above money, should the money instead be put in an "investment" fund so that money gets invested in AA communities? If the money goes into a fund, how will leaders of that fund be chosen and what metrics will be used to guage whether they are using the money for it's intended purposes?
There are just so many questions around reparations. I would rather we focus on stomping out systemic racism and police brutality, people guilty of either should pay with their freedom and/or job security.
If one looks at metrics, AA wealth is something like 66-78% of that of Whites, eventhough the weight of systemic and hot racism has been a constant for AA. My argument is that when the racism is removed, African Americans as a group have the intelligence, creativity, and determination to eliminate the wealth and other gaps, without reparations. Really vile conduct toward AA over 150+ years could not break the group, I doubt that future uncertainties sans racism will be able to.
42bambi
(1,753 posts)that we are finally moving forward to a more perfect life for EVERY person.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)That need to be extended to racist cops and it has been in some case, though not enough.
We need to drive for a country where bosses don't tolerate racism on the job, least they lose their jobs. A country where housing discrimation brings high and painful penalties, including jail. When racist realize that they won't find safe haven anywhere, they may hold it in their hearts, but they won't carry out the external actions that have sustained racism in America.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The population of slaves overwhelmed the White population.
yellerpup
(12,254 posts)of 40 acres and a mule (or whatever that amounts to, plus interest and penalties since Abraham Lincoln was assassinated). I keep hearing "all our citizens, black and white" but we are of many shades in the USA, and many of those other colors deserve redress. Especially Native Americans because they were the object of genocide. Racial prejudice and exploitation of the other is still going on. It never stopped as any immigrant from any time can tell you.
LuvLoogie
(7,035 posts)The open, racist commentary and contempt expressed by trumplandia is seething and vicious. That must be defeated, utterly--driven back into their putrid souls. I think the only way to do that is to keep supporting men and women of color and white Americans who promote a fair, just society. Drown out the toxicity.
We have to beat back this recurring bigotry in our society, because it is always leveraged to do harm to those seeking justice and progress.
We couldn't even get the GOP to pass gun control legislation after white children were slaughtered. We barely got the ARRA and the ACA passed.
The reparations have to be systemic, across all of our industries and institutions, and that takes motivation, heart, a sense of justice. We have to prepare our minds and souls to work this justice.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)and in some cases even continue to this day.
White Americans built generational wealth throughout the twentieth century based on discriminatory policies of all kinds, including, most notably housing. If you or your parents bought a house before 1990, you benefitted from a red-lined market, and most African Americans were hurt by that. Not 130 years ago. Thirty-five years ago. Real money - and some of it probably sitting in your bank accounts or investment accounts RIGHT now. Did you benefit financially from a house that was bought in the 1950s and sold in the 1990s? You're a beneficiary of racially discriminatory red-lining and the funneling of generational wealth along racial lines.
Excessive and aggressive policing of minority neighborhoods together with obvious and well-documented sentencing disparity has benefited white children in school/college and job competition - to this day. Not 135 years ago. This year's college class. This year's job seekers. This year's small business loan seekers. Complete expungement of most criminal records for those under 25 would be a minimum reparation.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Chainfire
(17,644 posts)I feel that everyone in this country deserves fair and equitable treatment which would go a lot further to correcting past sins than a monetary payout. I do not feel that we can buy our way out of our shameful history. A good start to rectifying our sins of the past would be to provide equal public education and free higher education and a living wage for all Americans; that would go further to leveling the playing field than selecting winners and losers based upon history and race.
If we decide that we need to write a check to pay for our sins, would we not be obligated, for the same reasons to compensate people of Native American origins? Perhaps, even people of Irish American, or Italian heritage would deserve some compensation for being treated as untermensch when they immigrated to America. How do you possibly design and implement a "fair" system?
For a better outcome, we need to work on changing the current and future social and economic sins. The best way forward is to begin by addressing the massive disparity of the distribution of wealth in the country. People are mistreated as much because of their economic status as they are for their race or national origins. We can't change the past, but we can influence the future.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,714 posts)Afromania
(2,771 posts)Just leaving us alone, which amounts to letting us play on a level playing field, would more than be enough. It's absolutely the cheapest thing that could be done and would yield all sorts of benefits for all involved. Wouldn't it be nice if all of the time they dedicate to hating me were put to use making their corners of the world better places? Imagine if they didn't vote to gut all sorts of social services because a brown person might use it? Or where they championed education for all rather than trying to destroy it because brown people go to school. A world where they didn't vote for people who use their bigotry as a wedge to let those same politicians steal from them, take their jobs, leave their kids uneducated and superstitious and destroy their environments with whatever foul things the people they are beholden to want. I could do a better job of explaining this and go on and on with this point and that but they know all of this already and refuse to even try.
So, again, just leave us alone. It's all the reparations we need.
Happy Hoosier
(7,395 posts)But I could be convinced by a good plan. Otherwise, Id prefer to invest in the health and education infrastructure of the country and ensure we target efforts toward African Americans in need.
Ponietz
(3,023 posts)brooklynite
(94,745 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)if the platform committee at the DNC takes up the issue this year.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)It won't call for "defunding the police" or "reparations".
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)But don't you think that a push will be made to include both of those concepts in one way or another? And will the losing side be able to get along with the winning side after that?
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)That's still a fringe policy with limited support.
Ponietz
(3,023 posts)They exist in the human collective unconscious. Nations are founded upon, and destroyed by, symbols.
Ohio Joe
(21,761 posts)In It to Win It
(8,285 posts)Thats what stopped me dead in my tracks.
As people said, it can take many forms. If we get a progressive UBI, some could be added to that. Or grants can be given to communities and minority owned businesses and minority run colleges. It would take a lot of discussion.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)I am for free college, low interest loans, other development incentives, child care help, medical help etc.
Just cash payouts - nah
mahina
(17,705 posts)Communities, absolutely.
The injustice happened granularly to the individuals but those individuals are gone. what were left with is injustice to entire communities. We know how to stop the prison industrial complex cycle. We know how to lift whole communities.
Slavery was suffered by individuals but its fallout left broader devastation.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,543 posts)because of how it was ultimately implemented in usual paternalistic fashion.
With a renewed focus on reparations for slavery, what lessons can be drawn from payments to victims of other historical injustices in America?
By Adeel Hassan and Jack Healy
June 19, 2019
/snip
Native Americans did not get full control of money awarded to them.
After World War II, Congress created the Indian Claims Commission to pay compensation to any federally recognized tribe for land that had been seized by the United States. The groups mission was complicated by a paucity of written records, difficulties in putting a value on the land for its agricultural productivity or religious significance, and problems with determining boundaries and ownership from decades, or more than a century, earlier.
The results were disappointing for Native Americans. The commission paid out about $1.3 billion, the equivalent of less than $1,000 for each Native American in the United States at the time the commission dissolved in 1978. On one level, it was remarkable, said Melody McCoy, a lawyer for the Native American Rights Fund, a nonprofit group that has represented tribes in hundreds of major cases. Congress listened to the claims of tribal leaders.
But, Ms. McCoy said, the government took a paternalistic view, and kept Native Americans from having direct control of the funds, in the belief they were not competent to receive such large amounts of money. They did not make those awards, whether it was $200 million, $20 million or $20,000 they held that money in trust accounts, she said.
A separate agreement, struck with Congress in 1971, led to the biggest award $962 million worth of land in Alaska, some 44 million acres in return for Indians, Eskimos and Aleuts relinquishing their aboriginal claims to the rest of the state. Once again, the compensation was not awarded directly; instead, the land was put in the control of corporations, and the beneficiaries were given shares of stock in them.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/reparations-slavery.html
FirstLight
(13,364 posts)What about Native American people???
They have also been consistently screwed...
I guess it sets up a slippery slope, cuz there's plenty of race and people who the US has fucked over time.
BannonsLiver
(16,470 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 27, 2020, 02:30 PM - Edit history (1)
That way there will be a sense of actual sacrifice and atonement.
Polybius
(15,491 posts)I'm black and my white relatives paying me out of their taxes in would be insanity.
BannonsLiver
(16,470 posts)Out of their own bank accounts. I think if people really want to do this there should be some actual sacrifice. Having the govt. write checks is not sacrifice. Its the easy way out.
Polybius
(15,491 posts)Race relations would go back to the 50's. I'd feel every white person would hate me.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)It would create a huge backlash against African Americans so it could never happen, and he knows it. It's his way of saying he's opposed to reparations.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)is that the United States as a whole created a great deal of wealth from enslaved people's work, and that US governmental laws kept Black families from building up generational wealth. It's a collective responsibility, not one for individuals.
BannonsLiver
(16,470 posts)Got it.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)sarisataka
(18,779 posts)Will it be a flat rate or depend on how long their family has lived in the US? Will southern residents pay more? What about whites who immigrated in the 20th century, will they be excused or pay a lesser amount?
BannonsLiver
(16,470 posts)And you've also laid out some pretty good ones on which black families should be paid reparations as well.
How long have they been here? Which familys descendants came here as slaves? For how long were they kept as slaves?
Unfortunately that will be pretty hard if not impossible to track.
Calculating
(2,957 posts)What about African Americans who came here after slavery ended? What about African Americans who are part white? Do they get less? What about white people who came over from Europe after slavery ended? Should they have to pay? What about the Native Americans who arguably got screwed over just as bad, if not worse?
I'd agree with the following:
1-Stop unfair law enforcement practices targeting POC.
2-Possible housing or education assistance for African Americans and Native Americans.
planetc
(7,838 posts)First, we could put the question of how to distribute reparation funds into the hands of African Americans. They could decide how to do it. They're perfectly capable of deciding that. There would have to be a tax, on everybody, no matter where or when they were born, and graduated so as not to soak poor people. And there should be another fund set up to accept voluntary donations from any American who wanted to contribute. Since I'm retired, and no longer pay income tax, they wouldn't ask me for a tax contribution. That's why I would like a place to make a voluntary contribution.
My contribution would be one small way to celebrate the African American writers, entertainers, musicians, sports figures, statesmen and women, scientists, nurses, teachers, and all other workers who have been and are still contributing to American life and culture. America owes more to African Americans than we could ever adequately reward. They invented jazz, and rock 'n roll, and win Nobel prizes and Pulitzer prizes. All the contributions they have made so far were accomplished in the face of pervasive discrimination and persistent brutality.
African Americans are just as smart as the rest of us are, and probably nicer.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Anything decided by race would never pass strict scrutiny.
geralmar
(2,138 posts)596,670 Union dead, wounded or missing.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)Would my cousin's niece and nephew qualify even though their father was from Bermuda? Mother is of Norwegian descent.