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WhiskeyGrinder

(22,407 posts)
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 11:53 AM Jul 2020

How I Became a Police Abolitionist

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/how-i-became-police-abolitionist/613540/

“Police abolition” initially repulsed me. The idea seemed white and utopic. I’d seen too much sexual violence and buried too many friends to consider getting rid of police in St. Louis, let alone the nation. But in reality, the police were a placebo. Calling them felt like something, as the legal scholar Michelle Alexander explains, and something feels like everything when your other option is nothing.

Police couldn’t do what we really needed. They could not heal relationships or provide jobs. We were afraid every time we called. When the cops arrived, I was silenced, threatened with detention, or removed from my home. Fifteen years later, my old neighborhood still lacks quality food, employment, schools, health care, and air—all of which increases the risk of violence and the reliance on police. Yet I feared letting go; I thought we needed them.


(snip)

Policing cannot even fix the harms of our nightmares. People often ask me, “What will we do with murderers and rapists?” Which ones? The police kill more than a thousand people every year, and assault hundreds of thousands more. After excessive force, sexual misconduct is the second-most-common complaint against cops. Many people are afraid to call the police when they suffer these harms, because they fear that the police will hurt them. Thousands of rape survivors refuse to call the police, worried about not being believed or about being re-assaulted, or concerned that their rape kit would sit unexamined for years. In three major cities, less than 4 percent of calls to the police are for “violent crimes.” Currently, police departments are getting worse at solving murders and frequently arrest and force confessions out of the wrong people.

(snip)

Slavery abolition required resistance, risk, and experimentation. Black people rebelled, ran away, and built an underground railroad. Abolitionists wrote and orated against the “peculiar institution.” Allies funded campaigns, passed legislation, and changed the Constitution. Of course, people then felt a range of anxieties about abolition. Slave owners worried about their plantations and the profits that the labor camps wrought. White overseers feared joblessness. Both feared the loss of superiority. Some Black people had reservations about how they’d sustain themselves without the steady, yet violent, protection of their owners. Police abolition triggers similar anxieties today—moral, economic, and otherwise.
24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How I Became a Police Abolitionist (Original Post) WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2020 OP
The police in the US... tonedevil Jul 2020 #1
I think they always have been gollygee Jul 2020 #2
Great article. Ohiogal Jul 2020 #3
It still feels hopelessly naive to me. Happy Hoosier Jul 2020 #4
I don't know if rape is a good example gollygee Jul 2020 #5
I agree JonLP24 Jul 2020 #7
This just sounds like an "oh well" response. Happy Hoosier Jul 2020 #15
There will still be police for serious crimes no matter what gollygee Jul 2020 #19
Thus the need for large-scale reform. Happy Hoosier Jul 2020 #20
Yes, and rape still isn't a good example of something they handle well. nt gollygee Jul 2020 #21
Police actually do a horrible job investigating rape JonLP24 Jul 2020 #6
That still isn;t a solution. Happy Hoosier Jul 2020 #16
I'm curious, how are the alternatives "unsatisfactory"? WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2020 #9
... Happy Hoosier Jul 2020 #17
The solution is to break the police into multiple separate entities. PTWB Jul 2020 #11
Sounds like the bones of... Happy Hoosier Jul 2020 #18
So the meter maid pulls a driver over for speeding Ex Lurker Jul 2020 #23
What does a meter maid do when they see someone tied up in the back seat of a parked car? PTWB Jul 2020 #24
Cute article. jmg257 Jul 2020 #8
Those are actually more real solutions than using police to handle problems caused by inequality JonLP24 Jul 2020 #10
We also have/had extremely high crime rates - unfortunately rising again. jmg257 Jul 2020 #13
The solution is to break up police departments. PTWB Jul 2020 #12
I like that - smaller PDs have much better track records, at least around here. jmg257 Jul 2020 #14
Law enforcement in general frogmarch Jul 2020 #22

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
2. I think they always have been
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 12:12 PM
Jul 2020

We are occupying a land as a former colony. I think that's just what the police are and always have been. They protect white people and the property of white people form people of color, and that's what they've always done.

Happy Hoosier

(7,376 posts)
4. It still feels hopelessly naive to me.
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 12:34 PM
Jul 2020

Whenever I see these things, I see "alternatives" which are entirely unsatisfactory to me.

Someone very close to me was raped. Luckily, the police located and arrested the culprit. What authority can do that in the absence of some kind of policing force?

I believe our police forces need to be broken down and entirely restructured, but police abolition is not only a HUGE political loser, it is hopelessly naive, IMO. And the argument of "hey, we don;t know how we'll address problems, but let's do it anyway" underlines that, three times in permanent black marker.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
5. I don't know if rape is a good example
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 12:37 PM
Jul 2020

Rapists are almost never seriously pursued, prosecuted, or jailed. And police officers commit a fair amount of rapes, even when on duty.

Happy Hoosier

(7,376 posts)
15. This just sounds like an "oh well" response.
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 01:22 PM
Jul 2020

So the answer is if you, or someone you love is raped, even if you KNOW who did it, there is still no recourse? Sounds nuts to me.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
19. There will still be police for serious crimes no matter what
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 02:30 PM
Jul 2020

But there isn't much recourse for rape victims. It's just how it is, and it is horrible, but that is the case with a massively over-funded militarized police force.

Happy Hoosier

(7,376 posts)
20. Thus the need for large-scale reform.
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 02:40 PM
Jul 2020

We need to do things differently, not stop doing anything.

Policing is broken. We need to break it down and build a system to do it right.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
6. Police actually do a horrible job investigating rape
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 12:43 PM
Jul 2020

I'm glad they did a good job in that case but that is the exception not the rule.

----

What about rape? The current approach hasn’t ended it. In fact most rapists never see the inside of a courtroom. Two-thirds of people who experience sexual violence never report it to anyone. Those who file police reports are often dissatisfied with the response. Additionally, police officers themselves commit sexual assault alarmingly often. A study in 2010 found that sexual misconduct was the second most frequently reported form of police misconduct. In 2015, The Buffalo News found that an officer was caught for sexual misconduct every five days.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.amp.html

https://www.propublica.org/article/false-rape-accusations-an-unbelievable-story

Upon Further Review: Inside the Police Failure to Stop Darren Sharper’s Rape Spree

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.amp.html

Police departments across the country have problems with untested rape kits. Sheriff Joe's department was one of them.

FBI did a civil rights investigation of the Baltimore PD and among the findings was they improperly investigated rape.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.justice.gov/crt/file/883296/download&ved=2ahUKEwi3uK6GibnqAhXGCTQIHQSDAI4QFjABegQIAxAI&usg=AOvVaw2cjPRpJ4TnSMCwC6jEanE-

I think the police & prison abolitionists actually know what they are talking about.

Happy Hoosier

(7,376 posts)
16. That still isn;t a solution.
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 01:24 PM
Jul 2020

That just says, well, you won;t have a recourse, but your current options aren't great anyway, so just suck it up.

I can;t see how anyone thinks that's a great idea.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,407 posts)
9. I'm curious, how are the alternatives "unsatisfactory"?
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 12:49 PM
Jul 2020
Someone very close to me was raped. Luckily, the police located and arrested the culprit. What authority can do that in the absence of some kind of policing force?


Your acquaintance was indeed lucky. Where there charges, a trial or plea bargain, a finding of guilt, incarceration? Were these helpful or retraumatizing? Or both?

What if education, social work and health care had the resources (and, tbf, the dismantling of racist systems) they needed to prevent sexual assault? Science has a pretty good idea why men rape, whether acquaintances or strangers. These are problems that can be addressed, if the will is there.

I believe our police forces need to be broken down and entirely restructured, but police abolition is not only a HUGE political loser,


It's a terrible electoral politics issue. But it must be addressed.


Happy Hoosier

(7,376 posts)
17. ...
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 01:26 PM
Jul 2020

"What if education, social work and health care had the resources (and, tbf, the dismantling of racist systems) they needed to prevent sexual assault? Science has a pretty good idea why men rape, whether acquaintances or strangers. These are problems that can be addressed, if the will is there."

Well, of course, we need all those things. Part of that fundamental rebuild of policing that I mentioned. But rape WILL still happen, and victims deserve a recourse, even if it doesn't have a great success rate.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
11. The solution is to break the police into multiple separate entities.
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 12:54 PM
Jul 2020

1. Disband all municipal and county police / sheriffs.

2. Create county / municipal level traffic enforcement units that do not have arrest powers, like a meter maid that can pull you over and issue a citation for a traffic offense but nothing else.

3. Move former detectives / investigators under the supervision of the prosecuting attorney.

4. Create county level, community oriented crime reporting precincts where folks can come to report non-emergency crimes that are then forwarded to the prosecuting attorney’s office for investigation.

5. Create county level, community oriented first responders (what we would see today as a typical cop or deputy) that ONLY respond to in-progress calls and take no enforcement action outside of those calls for service. When not responding to emergency calls, their job is entirely to engage with the community they serve. They are to take NO enforcement action outside of those calls for service. This agency would have total civilian oversight.

6. All narcotics investigations / search warrants are to be handled by state level investigators that are well trained and supervised - no more local and county level yahoos kicking in doors over a joint.


By breaking up and delegating the duties assigned to police departments, we drastically reduce the us vs them mindset that has perverted police departments across the country. Community oriented law enforcers with civilian oversight who take no enforcement action when not called for service would encourage crime victims to report crime and law enforcement would be seen as as an ally and not an enemy.

Ex Lurker

(3,816 posts)
23. So the meter maid pulls a driver over for speeding
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 03:48 PM
Jul 2020

and sees someone tied up in the back seat. What then?

Same question about the community oriented first responder who sees a crime in progress.

In most states the county sheriff is the county tax collector and performs a myriad of other functions besides law enforcement. If you disband them someone else will have to pick up the slack.

A state level organization is going to have less oversight than a local one, not more.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
24. What does a meter maid do when they see someone tied up in the back seat of a parked car?
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 03:53 PM
Jul 2020

What does a semi-truck driver do when they see someone tied up in the back of a car?

What does an ambulance driver do when they see a building on fire?

What does the dog catcher do when they see someone in need of medical assistance?

What does the fireman do when they see a stray dog?

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
8. Cute article.
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 12:48 PM
Jul 2020
Most police officers just continue to live their lives after filling the streets with blood and bone.

Very dramatic. I think the most I ever filled the street with were flares to divert traffic around a serious PIAA.

meanwhile...
As of the June 22 update, the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootings showed 14 unarmed Black victims and 25 unarmed white victims in 2019.
...
Ideally, officers would never take anyone’s life in the course of their duties. But given the number of arrests they make each year (around 10 million) and the number of deadly-weapons attacks on officers (an average of 27 per day in just two-thirds of the nation’s police departments, according to a 2014 analysis), it is not clear that these 1,000 civilian shooting deaths suggest that law enforcement is out of control.


If we are committed to eliminating this harm long-term, then society must offer quality housing, food, day care, transit, employment, debt cancellation, and free college so that people will not be stuck in unhealthy relationships because they need food, money, health insurance, or a place to live.

With no real solution offered, cause this isnt happening.

But I'll take a free car along with the free house and no bills, please.

States should stop the construction of new prisons and begin closing remaining ones by freeing the people inside
.
Woo hoo - let's go with that! Get out of jail free dumb!

We can reduce and eliminate shootings long-term if we provide the most dispossessed communities with opportunities to thrive, and choose comprehensive gun reform over police occupation of our schools, places of worship, and neighborhoods.


Have fun with this...it ain't happening anytime soon. Just the opposite, as crime rates rise again for all to see (and not police crime), normal people will NOT give up their guns - now more then ever.

And community response teams might need em anyway...not every case they respond to will be unicorns and rainbows.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
10. Those are actually more real solutions than using police to handle problems caused by inequality
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 12:53 PM
Jul 2020

As far as letting people out of prison we have the incarceration rate in the world do people here think that is normal? Even Bahrain & the King of Morocco released prisoners during the Coronavirus.

As far as the free car joke why do we give tax cuts and corporate subsidies away?

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
13. We also have/had extremely high crime rates - unfortunately rising again.
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 12:56 PM
Jul 2020

More then happy to reduce situations police need to respond to - Who wants to tie up half a shift dealing with a homeless or mentally ill person? LOTS of paperwork, having to get them committed, transporting them, etc. (or just dump them over town line )

Much better choices for handling cases like that, for vehicle lock-outs etc..

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
12. The solution is to break up police departments.
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 12:55 PM
Jul 2020

1. Disband all municipal and county police / sheriffs.

2. Create county / municipal level traffic enforcement units that do not have arrest powers, like a meter maid that can pull you over and issue a citation for a traffic offense but nothing else.

3. Move former detectives / investigators under the supervision of the prosecuting attorney.

4. Create county level, community oriented crime reporting precincts where folks can come to report non-emergency crimes that are then forwarded to the prosecuting attorney’s office for investigation.

5. Create county level, community oriented first responders (what we would see today as a typical cop or deputy) that ONLY respond to in-progress calls and take no enforcement action outside of those calls for service. When not responding to emergency calls, their job is entirely to engage with the community they serve. They are to take NO enforcement action outside of those calls for service. This agency would have total civilian oversight.

6. All narcotics investigations / search warrants are to be handled by state level investigators that are well trained and supervised - no more local and county level yahoos kicking in doors over a joint.


By breaking up and delegating the duties assigned to police departments, we drastically reduce the us vs them mindset that has perverted police departments across the country. Community oriented law enforcers with civilian oversight who take no enforcement action when not called for service would encourage crime victims to report crime and law enforcement would be seen as as an ally and not an enemy.

frogmarch

(12,158 posts)
22. Law enforcement in general
Mon Jul 6, 2020, 03:07 PM
Jul 2020

needs an overhaul.

https://www.chadrad.com/newsstory.cfm?story=46970

(snip)

LARAMIE, Wyo. (AP) - The mother of a man shot to death by an Albany County, Wyoming, sheriff's deputy has given formal notice she intends to file a $20 million dollar wrongful-death lawsuit against the county.

Deputy Derek Colling shot 39-year-old Robbie Ramirez after a 2018 traffic stop in Laramie. A grand jury declined to indict Colling, who remains a sheriff's corporal.

Debbie Hinkel's notice of intent to sue alleges the sheriff's office failed to adequately vet Colling before hiring him. Colling was involved in two fatal shootings as a member of the Las Vegas Police Dept, which later fired him.
(bold emphasis mine)
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