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mercuryblues

(14,543 posts)
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 09:21 AM Jul 2020

Bitch

it doesn't matter what usage you are using it for. It is a sexist, hate filled slur used to smear women, compare unfavorable things to a woman. It is also against TOS.

I think it is rather telling that people will use that word, while decrying racism. Using misogyny to condemn racism tells me you are OK with some slurs, even if you call yourself a "feminist,"

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Bitch (Original Post) mercuryblues Jul 2020 OP
We have had this argument before ... and got a ruling. denem Jul 2020 #1
females have assholes mercuryblues Jul 2020 #2
Bitch / Asshole are not against the TOS denem Jul 2020 #3
But it is. mercuryblues Jul 2020 #4
As I said, we have had this argument many times and got a ruling. denem Jul 2020 #5
Umm not recalling a ruling. boston bean Jul 2020 #45
It was passed up from the mods to TPTB. denem Jul 2020 #46
There hasn't been mods on DU for many years. MrsCoffee Jul 2020 #66
And yet, here you are, using it and posting that the word is against TOS irisblue Jul 2020 #13
If you think this deserves a jury mercuryblues Jul 2020 #64
🤣😂🤣😂🤣. Thank you for your permission 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 irisblue Jul 2020 #65
You thought that was permission mercuryblues Jul 2020 #70
Naah, it was me laughing at your suprising truculence irisblue Jul 2020 #73
The fact that the TOS aren't enforced as they are written is the problem here. n/t whopis01 Jul 2020 #11
As I said, we have had this argument many times and got a ruling nt denem Jul 2020 #12
Yep. Some people refuse to give up on misogyny. whopis01 Jul 2020 #20
More like he got a ruling mercuryblues Jul 2020 #26
Yes. Exactly. n/t whopis01 Jul 2020 #35
+1 demmiblue Jul 2020 #37
yup, by three male admins obamanut2012 Jul 2020 #78
Kind of like all the Trumpers flaunting their racism cuz it's aokay with their leader.. MrsCoffee Jul 2020 #38
yup obamanut2012 Jul 2020 #77
Yep irisblue Jul 2020 #15
When using the term regarding a male, I'd say 'son of a bitch' chia Jul 2020 #7
Yes. Shrike47 Jul 2020 #17
Yes, women can be sexist and misogynist as well. MrsCoffee Jul 2020 #39
I would think bastard would be the male equivalent. Drunken Irishman Jul 2020 #19
Now that you mention it, I've never seen "bastard" used against a woman Sympthsical Jul 2020 #30
It's used against men and women who were born out of wedlock. MrsCoffee Jul 2020 #40
It is Sympthsical Jul 2020 #42
Yeah well this isn't about favor. MrsCoffee Jul 2020 #43
That's why I don't use it Sympthsical Jul 2020 #47
Maybe it's #37 on your list. MrsCoffee Jul 2020 #48
If you ever want to check if an insult is used for a woman, pair it with "Thatcher" muriel_volestrangler Jul 2020 #54
"Got a ruling"? Really. muriel_volestrangler Jul 2020 #51
It's not a word I ever use. MineralMan Jul 2020 #6
I raised show dogs for years UpInArms Jul 2020 #8
This is the correct answer obamanut2012 Jul 2020 #14
I was immediately reminded of a line from the classic film "The Women" Clash City Rocker Jul 2020 #18
And asshole is only an appropriate term for anatomy? denem Jul 2020 #21
However you choose to use your words UpInArms Jul 2020 #22
! demmiblue Jul 2020 #24
Witch is gender specific, and has not male counterpart. denem Jul 2020 #25
That would be UpInArms Jul 2020 #27
Bin gar keine Russin, stamm' aus Litauen, echt deutsch. denem Jul 2020 #28
Hattip to UpInArms Jul 2020 #29
How is asshole gender specific? mercuryblues Jul 2020 #31
Actually, some men do, in fact, call themselves witches. Depends on one's path. niyad Jul 2020 #32
Actually I_UndergroundPanther Jul 2020 #57
THANK YOU! MrsCoffee Jul 2020 #41
It's The Same With The P Word Me. Jul 2020 #9
Yes and putting it out as Trump's statement, get a little giggle at the vulgarity to women, while LizBeth Jul 2020 #50
Thank You For This Post Me. Jul 2020 #58
bingo mercuryblues Jul 2020 #63
+1 LizBeth Jul 2020 #68
Piece of shit meow2u3 Jul 2020 #10
+1 ProfessorGAC Jul 2020 #69
k & r obamanut2012 Jul 2020 #16
I try not to use the word now, but I'll admit ... Whiskeytide Jul 2020 #23
It's getting so edhopper Jul 2020 #33
hmmmm CatWoman Jul 2020 #34
My wife uses that word once on a while mokawanis Jul 2020 #36
Mine does as well BannonsLiver Jul 2020 #62
Nah. Goodheart Jul 2020 #44
I agree. Hypocrisy at its best. LizBeth Jul 2020 #49
Agreed melman Jul 2020 #52
I'll never forget the time we got two collie puppies from this lady who bred them BannonsLiver Jul 2020 #53
I got a warning on DU for using the word bit_h I_UndergroundPanther Jul 2020 #55
A bitch is a female dog. It is used at dog shows. marie999 Jul 2020 #56
Men (and some women). demmiblue Jul 2020 #59
Have you ever heard the phrase, "she's a dog," referring to someone's looks - Ms. Toad Jul 2020 #71
Sorry I used it and raised your hackles. not_the_one Jul 2020 #60
The "original word" may indeed convey hate, stupidity and arrogance of a person. MrsCoffee Jul 2020 #67
Both those slurs are gendered obamanut2012 Jul 2020 #75
Nuance Captain Stern Jul 2020 #61
I thought the term "Karen" was created for people Steelrolled Jul 2020 #72
oh, that is so what it is almost always used for now obamanut2012 Jul 2020 #76
Bitch. GeorgeGist Jul 2020 #74
 

denem

(11,045 posts)
1. We have had this argument before ... and got a ruling.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 09:24 AM
Jul 2020

'Bitch' female adjective; 'Asshole' male adjective.

mercuryblues

(14,543 posts)
2. females have assholes
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 09:28 AM
Jul 2020

but when using the term B on a male, it is comparing him unfavorably to a woman. IOW they are saying the male has female character traits and women are bad, so they are as bad as a women who acts that way.

mercuryblues

(14,543 posts)
4. But it is.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 09:35 AM
Jul 2020

No bigotry/insensitivity
Members are expected to respect diversity and demonstrate an appropriate level of sensitivity when discussing related topics. Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, or other forms of bigoted intolerance are not permitted.
Why we have this rule: Democratic Underground is a diverse community which includes people of every race, sex, religious belief (or lack thereof), sexual orientation, gender identity, body type, disability, age, etc. We want to promote a welcoming atmosphere for all of our members, and do not want to provide a platform for bigotry.

 

denem

(11,045 posts)
5. As I said, we have had this argument many times and got a ruling.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 09:38 AM
Jul 2020

Post a question on the Admin forum if you want to.

 

denem

(11,045 posts)
46. It was passed up from the mods to TPTB.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 12:34 PM
Jul 2020

The TOS may have changed since then. If you want to email them, and ask whether the word bitch, without further context, offends the TOS, do - by all means. The fact it is ubiquitous, suggests not, but I am a nobody.

MrsCoffee

(5,803 posts)
66. There hasn't been mods on DU for many years.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 02:32 PM
Jul 2020

And yes, the TOS has changed since there was.

What the admins would say now is "you take your chances" with a jury.

irisblue

(33,035 posts)
73. Naah, it was me laughing at your suprising truculence
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 09:17 PM
Jul 2020

Thank you for the blessing.

You need/want the last word, it's yours.

Toodles

mercuryblues

(14,543 posts)
26. More like he got a ruling
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:29 AM
Jul 2020

that it is OK to use sexist slurs when he wants to and the ain't no womin gonna tell him different.

MrsCoffee

(5,803 posts)
38. Kind of like all the Trumpers flaunting their racism cuz it's aokay with their leader..
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 12:10 PM
Jul 2020

The three dudes who run this site get it wrong sometimes.

Misogyny is horrible.

chia

(2,244 posts)
7. When using the term regarding a male, I'd say 'son of a bitch'
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 09:46 AM
Jul 2020

I'm a woman. I use bitch or bitchy to describe a nasty-tempered, mean, vindictive woman. I don't use it often, and generally don't use colorful language in any other than a private conversation (or to myself, as I did last night regarding a character in a series on Netflix). If women use it amongst themselves, is it sexist? Is it sexist if a woman uses "dick" to refer to the male equivalent? I'm genuinely curious.

Sympthsical

(9,121 posts)
30. Now that you mention it, I've never seen "bastard" used against a woman
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:16 AM
Jul 2020

Huh. I never ever noticed that before. But you're right. That seems like a pretty male-exclusive term.

MrsCoffee

(5,803 posts)
40. It's used against men and women who were born out of wedlock.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 12:13 PM
Jul 2020

That is a primary definition of the word is it not?

Sympthsical

(9,121 posts)
42. It is
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 12:16 PM
Jul 2020

But that use fell out of favor several decades ago. Now it's colloquially a pejorative along the lines of bitch. "She's a bitch." "He's a bastard."

I was born out of wedlock, and I don't think I've ever had someone actually use that word in the original context towards me.

MrsCoffee

(5,803 posts)
43. Yeah well this isn't about favor.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 12:18 PM
Jul 2020

This is about women's lives. Do you know how many women are triggered by the word in the subject line of this OP? How many have had that word hurled at them while being abused, verbally, physically, sexually, emotionally? It is a word usually hurled with venom and hate toward the person being labeled. Nothing good comes from it.

Just sayin......


Sympthsical

(9,121 posts)
47. That's why I don't use it
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 12:35 PM
Jul 2020

At least not directed at an individual. I use "Son of a bitch . . ." as a version of god damnit when something goes wrong. I also use it as a synonym for complaining. "Eh, he's just bitching."

But I'd never call a woman that.

I don't think "bitch" is about "women's lives." That's really overstating it. Words are what they are. When I know it really bothers a group of people, I axe it from my vocabulary.

But this isn't exactly level one oppression, either. It's like #37 on the list, maybe. Maybe.

MrsCoffee

(5,803 posts)
48. Maybe it's #37 on your list.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 12:37 PM
Jul 2020

That's sad.

I'm not overstating anything. Maybe you just haven't had those experiences.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,377 posts)
54. If you ever want to check if an insult is used for a woman, pair it with "Thatcher"
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 12:58 PM
Jul 2020

eg 'Republican writer Danny Morrison’s now famous quote has come to symbolise the sentiment of the time, describing Thatcher as:
”…the biggest bastard we have ever known”' https://www.josharcher.uk/blog/why-margaret-thatcher-is-hated/

or

 

denem

(11,045 posts)
21. And asshole is only an appropriate term for anatomy?
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:11 AM
Jul 2020

It is a term almost exclusively used about men.

UpInArms

(51,284 posts)
22. However you choose to use your words
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:17 AM
Jul 2020

Is your choice ...

The question that was posed regarded the term “bitch”

I responded...

Everyone has an asshole, some just show theirs more than others.

 

denem

(11,045 posts)
25. Witch is gender specific, and has not male counterpart.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:27 AM
Jul 2020

My boss is a bitch / My boss is a asshole - both say something similar, and both are gender specific.

mercuryblues

(14,543 posts)
31. How is asshole gender specific?
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:49 AM
Jul 2020

Everyone, even women have them. It is not a slur based on gender. Calling a woman an asshole in no way implies she is acting like a male. It means she is acting like well, an asshole. Even calling a man an asshole, is not equating his behavior to a gendered slur. As I said both sexes have assholes.

niyad

(113,587 posts)
32. Actually, some men do, in fact, call themselves witches. Depends on one's path.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:50 AM
Jul 2020

Some use wizard.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,480 posts)
57. Actually
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 01:09 PM
Jul 2020

Worlock,wizard ,sorcerer are witchy counterparts for men.

Then there is a neutral gendered name,Magikan.

LizBeth

(9,952 posts)
50. Yes and putting it out as Trump's statement, get a little giggle at the vulgarity to women, while
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 12:43 PM
Jul 2020

hitting at Trump when the reality is trump is talking about sexual assault.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
58. Thank You For This Post
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 01:15 PM
Jul 2020

Trump Is The excuse for the using of the word...and feeling free to ignore the implications. As you say, isn't it fun.

Whiskeytide

(4,463 posts)
23. I try not to use the word now, but I'll admit ...
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:19 AM
Jul 2020

... I used it frequently in past years. Most commonly as a synonym for “complain”, but sometimes as a female version of “asshole”. I began getting away from it when a friend I think a lot of told me it offended her.

But I think it has become a part of the pop culture to have a meaning only indirectly associated with its origin. It is used often in a non-sexist way, even if it has historically sexist roots.

I try to look at the context of the usage. As George Carlin said, words and just words. The bad thoughts and intentions behind the words matter most.

mokawanis

(4,452 posts)
36. My wife uses that word once on a while
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 12:09 PM
Jul 2020

and she says it all depends on context, like saying 'I put that lid on too tight and now it's a bitch to remove'. Who's going to tell her she can't use that word?

BannonsLiver

(16,470 posts)
53. I'll never forget the time we got two collie puppies from this lady who bred them
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 12:48 PM
Jul 2020

Right around 1980 or 81. She later stopped by to visit and check in on them. I was probably about 8. She had to be in her 70s.

She takes one look at them “Ah, they are developing into very fine, very healthy bitches.”

I looked up at my parents in horror. Then they had to explain it to me after she left. Fun memories.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,480 posts)
55. I got a warning on DU for using the word bit_h
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 01:04 PM
Jul 2020

Someone called me on it.
I apologized because they were right it degrades women.

 

marie999

(3,334 posts)
56. A bitch is a female dog. It is used at dog shows.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 01:06 PM
Jul 2020

How did that word come to denote a negative for women?

demmiblue

(36,898 posts)
59. Men (and some women).
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 01:22 PM
Jul 2020

Probably one of the last words an abused woman will hear before she is clocked out.

Ms. Toad

(34,102 posts)
71. Have you ever heard the phrase, "she's a dog," referring to someone's looks -
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 08:53 PM
Jul 2020

Literally, a bitch is a female dog.

I don't know that that is the ONLY connection - but it certainly is an obvious one.

 

not_the_one

(2,227 posts)
60. Sorry I used it and raised your hackles.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 01:44 PM
Jul 2020

What is really hypocritical is all the **** in words/names of dubious intent.

We all know what was meant. So in effect, the word(s) were said.

Saying something as an insult is one thing.

Saying something to increase the gravitas of a point being made, is another entirely. It may be that the original word is what is needed to convey the hate, the stupidity, the arrogance of the person, or comment being made.

As a gay, to me the word b***h is not gender specific. Nor is c**t. But sometimes those word are exactly perfect to describe the person in question. Hopefully, as adults, we can be able to ascertain the nuance with which it was said.

I again apologize for describing my 6th grade female classmate as the b word. I should have just used tattletale.

MrsCoffee

(5,803 posts)
67. The "original word" may indeed convey hate, stupidity and arrogance of a person.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 02:43 PM
Jul 2020

Usually not that of the person the word is being used against however.



Captain Stern

(2,201 posts)
61. Nuance
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 02:02 PM
Jul 2020

That's a word too.

I think the argument about the word 'bitch' is a lot like the arguments I've heard about using the 'n-word'.

I've heard more than a few white people argue that if it's wrong for them to say the 'n-word', then it shouldn't be ok for black people to say the 'n-word'. That reasoning is silly, because of...nuance.

The exact same word can have different meanings, depending on who the speaker is, and who the listener is.

 

Steelrolled

(2,022 posts)
72. I thought the term "Karen" was created for people
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 09:12 PM
Jul 2020

who felt "uncomfortable" saying bitch or other words for women they don't like.

GeorgeGist

(25,323 posts)
74. Bitch.
Wed Jul 8, 2020, 07:45 AM
Jul 2020

1. female dog, wolf, fox, or otter.
2.
INFORMAL
a difficult or unpleasant situation or thing.
"the stove is a bitch to fix"

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