who said it was safe to reopen in general, just so the Oppressor Class could resume growing their wealth at our expense.

Amoral, sociopathic, apathetic and discredited.

... is back tracking

There are about 70,000,000 children in the US under the age of 18.

point 1 percent is 70,000 children they are trying to condemn to DEATH so that Trump can get parents "back to work" so that he can have an economic rebound in September before the the election.

These people are monsters.

Oh, while Pence is up there extolling the virtues of public schools, telling everyone that for the "mental and physical health" of the children it is required that they attend a school in person... why have the reporters asked "so you are against home schooling because of the harm it does to children in terms of socializing with others, etc."

They are truly a death cult now.

... lungs even if they don't die.

These people are fuckin sick ... fuckin sick

The "serious case" rate would be .5%...

So 350,000 children, who often have other physical challenges with underdeveloped lungs because of their age, will have lung scaring, higher risk for stroke and heart attacks (because of blot clots), kidney damage, liver damage, possible brain damage.

We DO NOT know this virus... we are finding out more about it all the time... it is not THE FUCKING FLU.

ridiculously over-inflated stats come from.

Here in Sweden, with basically no lock-down, no masks, most places still open, and the all the under-high school level schools never closed we have had one death under 20, and that was a 4 year old a couple months back with multiple comorbidities. Zero deaths in the school age cohort of 5 years old to 20yo, 8 deaths aged 20 to 29, and 16 deaths aged 30 to 39. That is a total of 25 deaths under 40 years of age (which is half the entire population). 25 deaths out of over 5 million people under 40 years of age. That is a rate of 1 death per 200,000. Under 50 years of age there have only been 69 total deaths (25 + 44). Almost 99% of the deaths here have been over 50 years of age, 96% over 60 years of age, 89% over 70 years of age. 68% were over 80yo, 26% of all COVID-19 deaths were over 90 tears of age.

Here is the data from our state health agency (Folkhälsomyndigheten)

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa



The IFR (Infection Fatality Rate) here in Stockholm (we are by far the hardest hit area of Sweden) for all people under 70 years of age is 0.09%, which is itself lower than this supposed rate of 0.1% for children) and includes age cohorts FAR more likely to die, ie. 60 to 70 years of age, although even there it is not crazy numbers, as almost 90% of all deaths here are above 70 years of age.

It is VASTLY lower for the younger cohorts if they are pulled out (as I have shown above.)

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/contentassets/53c0dc391be54f5d959ead9131edb771/infection-fatality-rate-covid-19-stockholm-technical-report.pdf




Here is the United Sates CDC data on COVID-19 deaths by age group. The data is a little behind (it was last updated July 1st), but it surely will not show a massive change when it is updated, based upon dozens of previous updates.

14 total deaths aged 5 to 14 years of age since the start of the pandemic. They do not give a breakdown for the 15 to 19 year old cohort, but it is probably around 50 to 60 or so max. For the entire US, there have been less than 100 official deaths (probably around 80 or so) from COVID-19 for people under 20 years of age, and that includes under 5 year olds, who makeup close to 20% or so of that death total.

This 70,000 dead children projection is a profound overreach when you actually look at the evidence based off the actual science and numbers behind it. Maybe from some other pandemic, but barring a HUGE, unprecedented mutation, not from COVID-19.

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

as stated by Dr. Birx.

She literally said.."the death rate in children is much less, like point 1 percent."

So I just extrapolated the math and assumed that, like the measles, when children return to school, the infection rate over time will reach near 100% of children. However, it is likely that only 70% of children will be infected until we reach "herd immunity".

And Sweden punted the whole Covid-19 pandemic. Almost worse than the USA.

using official state statistics. There is so much constant fear mongering on this board it is amazing. It started out from the very beginning when people were literally attacking people who were saying (itself a ludicrously high number) that there would be 3 or 4 million deaths by Spring 2021, and insisting that there would be over 9 or 10 (or more) million. Sweden's huge cock-up was in our nursing homes and scattered site elderly care. That is where the majority of deaths occurred. Our elderly care system is run differently that the other Nordics and is much more wide open (in terms of visitation) and has far too many non-professionally trained (to a sufficient degree) workers. The youngest half of our 10.1 million population (so over 5 million) have had 25 total COVID-19 deaths. None who are K-12 school age, with 1 total (a 4 year old with multiple pre-existing health issues) under 20 years of age, 9 total deaths under 30 years of age.

Denmark and especially Norway have poached so many of our best doctors, nurses, and licensed health-care workers as they pay far higher wages (especially Norway) than Sweden does in large part due to our vastly higher expenditures on the massive amounts of refugees we have taken in over the past 20 years or so (the US population-adjusted equivalent of over 50 million people.) Unlike the US, we just cannot turn on the 'printing press' and conjure 100's (or even 10's) of billions (in the US's case trillions) of dollars out of thin air. We also have a very weak (in terms of taking over and mandating public actions in regards to health care) central government that is bound by the instrument of law to give vast leeway to the state heath authorities. Denmark, Finland, and Norway do not have such constraints to anywhere near the degree we do.

At best, people that got sick and recovered had immunity for a few weeks at best. The authors concluded in both cases that Sweden’s decision was an incorrect one that likely will have big consequences down the line, given the internal organ damage COVID19 produces.

Recent data is showing that even people that don’t become sick suffer at a minimum some lung scarring. It is unknown at this point whether the scarring is permanent or transitory, but was the risk worth it? Two recent studies have indicated that immunity can last just a few days - to get that exposed people to potential lifelong internal organ damage and potentially shorter lifespans, was that worth it?

and have been in a Karolinska Universitetssjukhuset-run study to test for antibody duration. We have seen no reduction in our levels. They are not seeing (the study) reductions to anywhere near what some other studies in other countries are showing.

As for non-lethal but lasting deleterious effects that was not what was being claimed, and not what I was addressing.

you said

You left out 'some'. It is not universal at all. We have no lung scarring at all, and we have had multiple chest MRI's, CT scans, and x-rays as part of the study (and before, when we first tested positive.) The same for many of our friends and co-workers who had it (the vast majority were asymptomatic or had very mild cases as well.)

You keep asking 'was it worth it', as if I am advocating for a complete wide open approach and as if I have any sort of control over what a nation state chooses to do in terms of its course of action in regards to the pandemic. I think the Swedish health authorities were fools to embark upon the course they chose. I am only positing hard data in terms of its (the virus) effects in terms of lethality amongst the various age cohorts.

If we were old (we are are both 24yo) or in a high risk cohort, I would indeed be very concerned about a wide open school approach. It will probably end up killing a shedload of American elderly and also people who have comorbidity issues. The US is not Sweden (it was not the under 20yo's here who were the primary drivers of the elderly deaths here) in terms of separation (both physical and cultural) between the young and the older cohorts. Over 55% of Swedes live alone,especially in the large urban areas. Although the rates are less now than say 10 or 15 or more years ago, the vast majority of native Swedish youth move out of the house as soon as possible. I know almost no one over 25yo who still lives with their parents, and even in the 19 to 24yo cohort it is pretty rare, in my experience and in my observations. The one group that was (besides the elderly care homes and scattered site elderly housing/care) that was hit hard here were the immigrant and refugee-heavy suburbs (certain suburbs in the EU are often the poorest areas of the largest metropolitan areas), especially here in Stockholm, but also Göteborg (Gothenburg) and Malmö. They tend to live in much more densely inhabited situations than native (in-country 2 or more generations) Swedes do.

There are highly educated and skilled people in Europe and Sweden doing studies using similar techniques, their results are at odds. I am an engineer who has 3 plus decades of practice, my experience says that when experts disagree, something has been missed by both sides of the disagreement, it typically in a natural factor that none saw as a possibility, and that factor applies itself in a manner as to cause data confounding - even when experts are doing the experiment designs, evaluations and analysis of data.

the majority of mild to asymptomatic cases (let alone the serious ones) do actually develop significant lung scarring and other impactful long term and/or irreversible damage, the world is fucked. Seriously fucked. Vaccines will not work (at least for a long, long time, barring a positive viral mutation) and billions eventually will have vastly reduced qualities of life, along with far earlier deaths.

I so hope it doesn't come to that.

Some people who did not die within the first five years after likely had shorter lifespans than if the Pandemic never happened.

You seem to be smart and very skilled with numbers and comparative analysis, I am a little surprised that you don’t instinctively accept that COV-SARS-2 will get figured out, regardless of how damaging in the short-term. Our capacity to manage vast amount of data and perform complex diagnostics are worlds more advanced that just over a century ago, I have faith in the power of that to bring the human race through this, bloodied, but still moving on. Our worst enemy has been and remains ourselves, we are more likely to use advances to wipe out the human race than a virus is likely to.

Granted, schools have to begin making decisions about if/how/when to reopen, and most already are (at least our kid's school is), but this seems to be just another political fight/drama/distraction.

Especially in light of the fact that the country is drowning in the much more immediate problem of dangerously high and spreading Covid infections just about nation-wide.

... in home vs virtual.

with regard to their plans and have been looking for parents to serve on a 'safety board' to help with the decision making, and I can only assume that that's the case with most other schools as well (although I assume wrongly at a fairly rapid clip).

I just don't get why this is such an issue right now when most (some? a few?) school districts are already ahead of it.

dealing with this virus.

He even threw Fauci under the bus on face coverings, telling a right wing interviewer that Fauci first said masks were not needed, but now says they are vital. It seemed to me at the time Fauci mentioned mask wearing that he was trying to cover for Trump’s total incompetence in not doing anything to prepare (testing kits, masks, ventilators, having US scientists in China). Fauci’s reward for trying to give Trump some breathing room is a knife in the back.

We couldn’t possibly feed or take care of the mental health needs of at-risk kids. Schools are the only way possible, apparently

blame public school teachers for every shortcoming.

You would think the Republicans would be the ones to want school to be online so they can fire all the teachers but one per grade that can hold class for the whole country. One of their donors can provide all the curriculum, worksheets, laptops, software etc. Frankly, I’m surprised they are not using this crisis to shut down all the schools.

just ask me so I can ask him for you and get back to you with his answer"

It is always a "local matter" when it comes to funding or educational standards in an increasingly complex world that frankly needs a better educated populace.

Trump is NOT a scientist or educator and HE’S dictating policy and procedure? Oh vey.

Only his stupid ignorant base wants to sent kids back to school now. Everybody else is worried.

... they know the tickets were unlimited FCFS and no one wanted to show up to get sick in his KKKlan rally.

I don't know too many people who want to send their kids to school in person

It was such a good speech, too. /sarcasm