I'm at the point where Mary is married to Philip of Spain, just realized she wasn't actually pregnant, and found out her husband wasn't quite the man she had hoped he would be.

According to Starkey - and pretty much every other Tudor biography I've read (which number in the WHOLE LOTS category because it's my favorite era of history) - Mary was heir, then wasn't (the birth of Elizabeth and then Edward) then was (Henry's last will returned her and Elizabeth to the succession) then wasn't (Edward VI's will removed her and Elizabeth) so in the end she took what she felt was due her, by divine right.

Edward didn't think women could/should reign but the family line seriously lacked in males. The only other acceptable candidate, to him, was his cousin Jane Grey (granddaughter of Mary, Henry's youngest sister). He actually married off his female cousins before he died, with the hope one of them would produce a male heir before he died of consumption. Unfortunately, he died soon afterwards.

And, yes, Mary was pretty bloody, but no more than those before and after her reign. However, the one execution that, IMHO, makes the 'bloody' description appropriate was the execution of the 17 year old, '9 day Queen', Jane Grey. She was a total innocent whose fate was out of her control. The description of her execution is heartbreaking. And Elizabeth came so very close to meeting the same fate.

But, when all was said and done, the Golden Elizabethan Age began.

should hate them, being of Irish extraction, but there you are.

Loved Wolf Hall and the different series about that time - War of the Roses and after. But I've never read much about Mary. I'll have to rectify that.

Mary's entire reign was focused on restoring her religion to the nation, her husband, desire to have a child and fear of her sister. She was never fully focused on England and her emotional ties were to Spain.

Elizabeth learned from the mistakes of the people in her life and, although making mistakes, still did a much better job of reigning than her sister because Elizabeth's passion and focus was on England.

Being of Welsh blood, myself, I love that Elizabeth spoke Welsh, and always had her 'Tudor Taffia' (Welsh gentry) around her, from the beginning of her reign, until the end.

i was 16...... now i'm 65!!! been reading english. scottish, french, russian and us history since. lolol .... i can name all the british monarchs from HENRY II on ......
my big claim to fame.

oh and i can tell you yucky stories about the kings and queens that may not be in the history books. that is what you learn when you immerse yourself in fiction and non fiction history.

be sure to catch OUTLANDER .... BOOKS AND THE TV PROGRAM. Scottish, French, English and American history.

ELIZABETH I is one of my favorites.

We also enjoyed the "Princess" movies, also on Starz.

Last edited Mon Jul 27, 2020, 09:22 AM - Edit history (1)

I think Jane is one of the most sympathetic historical figures. The description of her, blindfolded, frantically feeling around to find the block, at her execution, is heartbreaking.

I just noticed that Frances Grey died the year after Elizabeth came to the throne. Her niece, Margaret, lived until 1596.

One has to give it to Mary of Scotland. She never gave up trying to take the English throne!! I know a lot of people see her as a very sympathetic character. I'm an exception. She was absolutely fascinating but not someone I admire.

Jane Grey was the daughter of Frances Grey who was the daughter of Mary D of Suffolk


Frances Grey, Duchess of Suffolk (née Lady Frances Brandon; 16 July 1517 – 20 November 1559), was an English noblewoman, the second child and eldest daughter of King Henry VIII's younger sister, Princess Mary, and Charles Brandon, 1st Duke of Suffolk. She was the mother of Lady Jane Grey, de facto Queen of England and Ireland from 10 July until 19 July 1553,[1] as well as Lady Katherine Grey and Lady Mary Grey. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Grey,_Duchess_of_Suffolk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Jane_Grey


Lady Jane Grey (c.?1537[3] – 12 February 1554), also known as Lady Jane Dudley (after her marriage)[4] and as "the Nine Days' Queen",[5] was an English noblewoman and de facto Queen of England and Ireland from 10 July until 19 July 1553.

Jane was the great-granddaughter of Henry VII through his younger daughter Mary, and was a first cousin once removed of Edward VI. She had an excellent humanist education and a reputation as one of the most learned young women of her day.[6] In May 1553, she married Lord Guildford Dudley, a younger son of Edward's chief minister John Dudley, Duke of Northumberland. In June 1553, Edward VI wrote his will, nominating Jane and her male heirs as successors to the Crown, in part because his half-sister Mary was Roman Catholic, while Jane was a committed Protestant and would support the reformed Church of England, whose foundation Edward claimed to have laid. The will removed his half-sisters, Mary and Elizabeth, from the line of succession on account of their illegitimacy, subverting their claims under the Third Succession Act.

After Edward's death, Jane was proclaimed queen on 10 July 1553 and awaited coronation in the Tower of London. Support for Mary grew very quickly, and most of Jane's supporters abandoned her. The Privy Council of England suddenly changed sides and proclaimed Mary as queen on 19 July 1553, deposing Jane. Her primary supporter, her father-in-law the Duke of Northumberland, was accused of treason and executed less than a month later. Jane was held prisoner in the Tower and was convicted in November 1553 of high treason, which carried a sentence of death—though Mary initially spared her life. However, Jane soon became viewed as a threat to the Crown when her father, Henry Grey, 1st Duke of Suffolk, got involved with Wyatt's rebellion against Queen Mary's intention to marry Philip II of Spain. Both Jane and her husband were executed on 12 February 1554.

There are three episodes, covering 1) Matilda and Eleanor, 2) Isabella and Margaret, and 3) Jane, Mary, and Elizabeth. The series dispels a lot of the myths built up around these amazing women and their efforts to claim their rights in a male dominated world.

If you have access to Acorn TV streaming service, look for this series!

Thanks!

Of sympathy for Mary.
Subjected to her fathers lunatic whims.
Her story made worse by the protestantism
Of the time.
Biggest mistake marriage to Phillip of Spain.
Elizabeth knew this and never let a man
Especially a foreigner
come between her and her people.

Elizabeth so resembled her father, where as Mary was just like her mother, in so many ways. Contemporary comparisons are never in her favor.

It's interesting that they are buried in the same tomb. The inscription is: “Partners both in throne and grave, here rest we two sisters, Elizabeth and Mary, in the hope of one resurrection.”