There is NO way a state legislature will go against the will of their own people and try to do this. If Trump loses, the GOP will drop him like a hot potato and move on to fight in 2024. They will not go down the drain for him and ruin their own careers for this maniac should he lose in November and it's a clear and convincing loss.

The Trumpers are quite the crazy bunch and we can't assume they will go quietly.

It's probably safe to say that if Biden wins a state by 5% or more, they're not going to override it.

But gore won Florida in 2000 by any reasonable measure and they gave it to shrub. Obviously that was an extremely close election though. But the election of 1876 was a mess and the eventual agreement didn't really reflect the will of the people.

I think we're crooks to rely on democratic norms and traditions when there's a blatant fascist running. There's just no way he's not already cheating and he's going to continue to find ways to get an edge any way he can. If republicans can win by defying the will of the people in one or two republican controlled states that vote for Biden, You can bet they're looking into how they can throw the election to donnie.

...so maybe, it isn't just "alarmism". Today's GOP is capable of anything, especially on the state legislature level, which is where the real lunatics are.

The objection comes same as in the practice medicine...there’s theory, and there’s practice. They are 2 entirely different things. This is the very reason most academics with good reason don’t practice law ....or medicine

It’s a really big stretch.

Lawrence Tribe does not do alarmism

and let many of their own citizens die for no reason other than to stick it to the black guy?

The GOP is a death cult. They no longer even pretend to craft policies that will appeal to a majority.

Governor Abbott, Lieutenant Gov Dan (old people sacrifice for the economy ) Patrick, and Texas AG Ken Paxton would overturn the election in a heartbeat if it is anywhere close. These are Kool-Aid drinking SOB's that have no F's to give when it comes to respecting the process and the Constitution.

for 3 and a half years?

I think the list includes:

Wisconsin
Michigan
Pennsylvania
Ohio
North Carolina
Florida
Georgia
Texas
Arizona

I could be wrong on a few of these but I think they all have Republican legislatures and governors but Biden will surely win at least some of these. In fact it's hard to see him winning the election without some of these, which is why we need to be prepared for republican efforts to steal these states through legislative action.

Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina all have Democratic governors now.

Got it from https://ballotpedia.org/Gubernatorial_and_legislative_party_control_of_state_government

But looks like that doesn't reflect the 2018 election.

The legislature has no role in sending the slate of electors to congress, unless they change the law before Election Day.

michigan should be no problem if these aren't in republicans' hands any more.

but other states may have different laws. i don't know what happens if the s.o.s. refuses to certify anything, for instance.

in some states, the legislature would have to change the law prior to the election, but they could do that if the polls look bad for donnie. they could even try to spin it as a contingency just based on covid-19 or protests or something. some states may already have laws to invalidate an election if the s.o.s. determines there was "too much fraud" or something.

These states now have a Dem governor and Secretary of State:

Michigan
Wisconsin
Pennsylvania
North Carolina

None of those states had Dems in both of those offices in 2016. Governors have a lot of influence into how the elections are carried out, and Secretaries of State are responsible for running and certifying the elections.

corrupted in 2016 by Russian (and other) hackers. So they went for Trump.

I thought that was debunked.

Meaning that the Russians used social medial to sway the voters or have voters not vote.

That isn’t hacking. We are all aware of the misinformation campaign. But this poster was suggesting actual votes were changed after they’d been cast.

Don't know if he killed the investigation.

Russians had gotten into over 35 state elections. The las t word to was that they did not have evidence to unequivocally prove changing of votes-which is different from saying it was debunked.

So IOW states Biden needs to get 270

Red states we could win that have Repub govs: FL, GA, AZ, IA, NC, OH. If Bide wins all the blue states + PA, MI & WI (all Dem govs), none of those states matter.

However, blue states of MD, MA and VT have Repub govs. I don't know if they would participate in a hypothetical scheme to steal the presidency or how it would affect things if they did

Red states with Dem govs: MT, NC

You’ve got NC on your list with both a Republican and Democratic governor 😃

He is not your typical republican. And it would be the end of his career if he even tried. He and his family would have to move somewhere far away.

sh*t on Twitter. This time (and because he's sinking like a f*cking rock) it's stupid enough that the GOP comes out publicly to say BULLSH*T. And now we have Lawrence to come nattering along about how it's all really a cleaver feint -- because he really has this super-dooper election cheat up his sleeve!

K then.
--- ---

That positing worries such as this depresses the vote and is part of a planned action to suppress the vote. I am surprised at such a man as Tribe passing this along.

That most of the time was just that, pretty far out stuff

But as I said, I'm only repeating what PBO said in his eulogy for John Lewis

PBO is right. This is a distraction designed to suppress turnout by making people think their vote won’t matter.

He will destroy our democracy to stay in power. That is a reason for a strong vote against him. We need to win by such a wide that he will look like a poor loser.

but I agree with the last real president...we don't want people saying what's the use and staying home.

There would be massive riots and legislators who would support such tactics would be painting a target on their backs.

The state is going to have 2 dem senators. That guy is all in it for himself.

necessary.

Trump cheats at golf, on wives, and apparently at businesses with scams like Trump U. He lies or states untrue information habitually--greater than 20000 lies so far according to the Washington Post. Most importantly, he has a deep psychological need to win at any cost. So would he try to cheat at the election? Of course he would.
.
The GOP has a recent history of trying to win by any means necessary. Forget Bush V Gore and Florida in 2000. The voter suppression tactics that we agree they have employed to keep hundreds of thousands of not millions of minorities and Democrats from voting is well documented. They clearly believe the integrity of the voting system in America should be tampered with to favor themselves. Would they go along with Trump in his greatest scam of all time? You be the judge.

State politics is a different ball game, they would be risking more than they care to

Support the popular vote

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/politics/faithless-electors-supreme-court/index.html

SCOTUS held that state legislatures can place any restriction on their electors they want, including binding them to vote a particular way and punishing them if they don't.

The plaintiffs in the SCOTUS case didn't pledge to vote for the "popular vote winner", even though it was widely misreported that way. They pledged to vote for their party's nominees for POTUS and VPOTUS. The state fined them because they broke that pledge.

States can appoint whichever electors they choose, however they choose, and they are free to put any restrictions on them they choose. The popular vote plays absolutely no role except in state law.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/politics/faithless-electors-supreme-court/index.html


The Supreme"The Constitution's text and the Nation's history both support allowing a State to enforce an elector's pledge to support his party's nominee -- and the state voters' choice -- for President," she added. Court said Monday that states can punish members of the Electoral College who break a pledge to vote for a state's popular vote winner in presidential elections.

Today, we consider whether a State may also penalize an elector for breaking his pledge and voting for someone other than the presidential candidate who won his State's popular vote. We hold that a State may do so," Justice Elena Kagan wrote.

"The Constitution's text and the Nation's history both support allowing a State to enforce an elector's pledge to support his party's nominee -- and the state voters' choice -- for President," she added.

Washington state Attorney General Robert Ferguson told the justices that since the creation of the Electoral College, there have only been 165 faithless electors representing less than 1% of the Electoral College votes cast for president. Of those, 71 changed their vote in 1872 and 1912 because the candidate they pledged their vote for died.
"The scattered examples that remain have been largely symbolic gestures with no chance of impacting results," Ferguson said, adding that "over the last century, no elector for a winning presidential candidate has switched votes to the losing candidate."

Also https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/the-electoral-college.aspx

Some states have passed laws that require their electors to vote as pledged. These laws may either impose a fine on an elector who fails to vote according to the statewide or district popular vote, or may disqualify an elector who violates his or her pledge and provide a replacement elector. In July 2020, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that it is constitutional for states to enact this type of law. The states with laws that attempt to bind the votes of presidential electors are below:

States With Laws That Attempt to Bind the Votes of Presidential Electors
Alabama Mississippi
Alaska

Montana
Arizona Nebraska
California Nevada
Colorado New Mexico
Connecticut North Carolina
Delaware Oklahoma
District of Columbia Ohio
Florida Oregon
Hawaii South Carolina
Indiana Tennessee
Maine Vermont
Maryland Virginia
Massachusetts Washington
Michigan Wisconsin
Minnesota Wyoming


Most of the laws cited above require electors to vote for the candidate of the party that nominated the elector, or require the elector to sign a pledge to do so. Some go further: Oklahoma imposes a civil penalty of $1,000; in North Carolina, the fine is $500, the faithless elector is deemed to have resigned, and a replacement is appointed. In South Carolina, an elector who violates his or her pledge is subject to criminal penalties, and in New Mexico a violation is a fourth degree felony. In Michigan and Utah, a candidate who fails to vote as required is considered to have resigned, and a replacement is appointed.

That and the "Trump isn't sure if he'll abide by an election vote not in his favor" b.s. The results are the results. Candidates, even incumbents don't have a choice about abiding by the results.

I get extremely tired of and exasperated by the posts that say the election will be postponed or cancelled or Trump will refuse to leave the White House. I wish there would be some kind of a ban on them.

Legislature would have to change the law BEFORE Election Day.

They were hoping to pull the same tricks they did in 2016, but everything is falling apart.
His only hope is to break the law.

because they know they will lose. Don't think Trump is aware of what is going on in Bolivia and thinks to himself, "why not?"

I will be one of them.

lies, grifting, and incompetence behind us what is the wiser course:

...to prepare for additional abuse of office by exposing, discussing, and doing what we can to prevent it (thank you Professor Tribe)

or

...give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that even this WH and enablers wouldn't dare use power in this way to benefit themselves

From the beginning it was always clear who this guy is and he continues to prove it every day yet, still, there are opinions that destruction of the next 'norm' couldn't possibly happen. Because.

The silence and complicity of the GOP tells me they see a way through this that doesn't include a normal election. Tribe's warning describes just one of many ways this happens and deserves serious attention. I'm sure if Tribe sees it as a possibility, the Stephen Millers, the Bannons, the McConnells, the Barrs, and the Carlsons have been evaluating it. I hope dems realize they need to be thinking ahead as well.