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What's Wrong With This Picture? (Original Post) bigtree Sep 2012 OP
. bigtree Sep 2012 #1
And it gets far, far worse if the middle class American is self-employed. dawg Sep 2012 #2
Yes, and many are forced to be "self employed." mountain grammy Sep 2012 #6
Plutocracy. Rex Sep 2012 #3
. n/t porphyrian Sep 2012 #4
No ducks in duct tape. Someone alert graywarrior. HopeHoops Sep 2012 #5
What gets me is how the wealthy define themselves not by what they do, but by their money.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #7
What's wrong? Well, that the MittWit "MADE" that money, for starters. TahitiNut Sep 2012 #8
You are 100 percent correct humbled_opinion Sep 2012 #17
Romney paid? a 14.1% tax rate? obxhead Sep 2012 #9
You can bet that his final rate...... George II Sep 2012 #10
YEP! Cosmocat Sep 2012 #12
Gotta come up with another approach because the GOP says everyone's taxes should be cut. SleeplessinSoCal Sep 2012 #11
helps the wealthy at the expense of the middle class bigtree Sep 2012 #13
I showed this graphic to humbled_opinion Sep 2012 #14
I love how they give these percentages of his income bigtree Sep 2012 #20
Just using two years as an example... George II Sep 2012 #21
The way the GOP looks at it is that Jamaal510 Sep 2012 #15
EVERYTHING. calimary Sep 2012 #16
It will never happen humbled_opinion Sep 2012 #18
there's a good chance we can change that 'carried interest' provision bigtree Sep 2012 #19
The main problem with the picture is that not enough people see it. grantcart Sep 2012 #22

dawg

(10,624 posts)
2. And it gets far, far worse if the middle class American is self-employed.
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 01:54 PM
Sep 2012

Once you factor in self-employment tax, it becomes remarkably clear how much the tax code has been tilted to benefit the very rich. And they still feel oppressed.

mountain grammy

(26,655 posts)
6. Yes, and many are forced to be "self employed."
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 02:56 PM
Sep 2012

We all know this scam. The tax burden falls on the employee who is treated like an employee but paid as a "contract worker" while the employer skips out on their share of the payroll and medicare taxes and worker's comp to boot. Meantime, employers take their pay as "capital gains" holding their personal tax burden to 15% or less with no payroll tax because it's not "earned income." What a joke, and people still think the tax code unfairly taxes the rich while the workers pay nothing. Give me a break!

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
7. What gets me is how the wealthy define themselves not by what they do, but by their money....
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 02:58 PM
Sep 2012

....and taxing them makes them feel like you are taking away what they are...

TahitiNut

(71,611 posts)
8. What's wrong? Well, that the MittWit "MADE" that money, for starters.
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:07 PM
Sep 2012

Last edited Sun Sep 23, 2012, 05:25 PM - Edit history (1)

He didn't. The current euphemism is "unearned income" ... which isn't quite right, either. One thing's certain ... somebody worked their ass off for that money, but it wasn't the MittWit. That's his 'entitlement cut' ... the legalized extortion he benefits from. It's the income he receives from the labors of others. Just like the King could take what he wanted from 'allowing' peasants to farm his land, we have a corporate system today wherein labor only receives less than 30% of the value of their labor in the form of "total employee compensation." The rest goes to the Entitlement Class ... our Ruling Class.

humbled_opinion

(4,423 posts)
17. You are 100 percent correct
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:47 PM
Sep 2012

The labor portion receives the lowest proportion of the company earnings...

How come the majority doens't really understand this? uneducated? brainwashed?

 

obxhead

(8,434 posts)
9. Romney paid? a 14.1% tax rate?
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:07 PM
Sep 2012

As I understand it, the tax forms he released for 2011 were preliminary forms that can be revised. Chances are he will pay a far lower rate than 14.1%

George II

(67,782 posts)
10. You can bet that his final rate......
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:13 PM
Sep 2012

...will be lower than 14.1%. You're correct, this IS NOT his 2011 return, that one isn't complete yet. And even if it was, he'll amend that return when the spotlight's off him and Obama is in his second term. I'll bet he gets even and finds a way to get it under 10%.

bigtree

(86,005 posts)
13. helps the wealthy at the expense of the middle class
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:42 PM
Sep 2012

@truthteam2012

How Romney's tax plan helps the wealthy at the expense of the middle class:

http://t.co/9TS3lIO5

humbled_opinion

(4,423 posts)
14. I showed this graphic to
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:43 PM
Sep 2012

A teahead I work with and this is what he said "So what, is Obama going to increase the tax rate on capital gains?" ...

"Romney's income is derived from capital gain not earnings so unless the President is going to increase capital gains tax rate which will impact every single middleclass voter that has money in a 401K or IRA or any investment than your point about Romney's tax rate is moot.

Then he ranted: "do you even realize that Romney gave over 4 million of those investment gains to charity, for an effective charity rate of about 30 percent, so he pays 14 percent to government and 30 percent to charity meaning that 44percent of his income is redistributed but the important point is it is redistributed by him not by ineffective government. Then I get "Do you really trust government to be a good arbiter of our money? Do you really support giving government more to ineffectively do the jobs that it promises to the American people"


and on and on....

I don't even know where they get this stuff from, most of it is just made up B.S... .I guess...

bigtree

(86,005 posts)
20. I love how they give these percentages of his income
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 04:08 PM
Sep 2012

. . . when he's yet to fully divulge just how much money he actually made off of offshore investments and the like.

More to the point, adjusted growth income (that Mitt and his defenders are using as a baseline) is normally substantially lower than total income.

What's Mitt hiding?

George II

(67,782 posts)
21. Just using two years as an example...
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 07:09 PM
Sep 2012

....he could have paid 25% in a year he made only $100, and 5% in a year he made $5M. Not knowing how these "averages" were calculated, it could be that he paid an "average" of 20% over these two years when he really only had an effective rate of barely over 5%.

This is an extreme example, but until we know what OTHER candidates disclose, he could be scamming us. I don't think this is going to fly as the week goes on. Remember, he released this on Friday afternoon, I'll bet Matthews, Schultz, et. al. are frothing to get into the details come tomorrow afternoon.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
15. The way the GOP looks at it is that
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:44 PM
Sep 2012

everybody should pay around the exact same amount of money in taxes, regardless of income. They don't pay attention to the percentage of income paid in taxes. To them, there's nothing wrong with this picture at all.

calimary

(81,500 posts)
16. EVERYTHING.
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:44 PM
Sep 2012

The first rich guy I want to see taxes raised upon - is mitt wrongney. Him before even the koch brothers and adelson and company. HIM FIRST.

humbled_opinion

(4,423 posts)
18. It will never happen
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:52 PM
Sep 2012

Because the dirty little secret is that all of the RICH, all of them have the means and ability to move, hide and play the system. You and I don't get to game the system it is rigged in their favor and unless you seriously just take a straight percent of their earnings you can't beat them.

I support a flat tax for everyone making about 250K per year 40 percent flat tax not loopholes, no deductions, no gaming the system you pay your fair share....

but no one is even talking about anything like that....

bigtree

(86,005 posts)
19. there's a good chance we can change that 'carried interest' provision
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:57 PM
Sep 2012

. . . which Romney has used to enrich himself with a substantial break on his investment income. The President has included the changes in his economic proposals and Congress is also focusing on the ridiculous tax benefit to wealthy investors like Romney and his Bain buds.

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