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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFor the first 49 years of my life, I wondered how the Holocaust could have happened.
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Rabbi Michael Adam Latz #BlackLivesMatter
@RavMABAY
For the first 49 years of my life, I wondered how the Holocaust could have happened.
I don't wonder any more.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)randr
(12,412 posts)The history of humanity is written in blood
roamer65
(36,745 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 18, 2020, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)
Sad to say, but true.
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)erronis
(15,255 posts)Not to put too fine a point on it, but the last 50 years has seen an erosion of the worth of the people who actually produce goods for the benefit of the leverage artists.
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)The Club of Rome figured out that there wasn't enough "tide" for everyone, especially if that meant raising the "third world" to first world standards of living.
But, considering that the rest of the world couldn't be deprived for ever, the upper strata of the first world sought to improve their lot, and let the upper strata of the underdeveloped countries join them, while capping living standards for most of the population in the first world.
In a world of limited resources, you get what you can. It's simple economics -- the dismal science.
jaxexpat
(6,828 posts)I've lived my nearly 70 years, certain, that in a good fight, the good guys would defeat the dark forces. That's the fruit of too much Roy Rogers and Sky King on long ago Saturday mornings in youthful America. Life grown isolated and insulated, as a greenhouse plant, in an escape from the realities of universal poverty and a world at war. Such was childhood in the 50's for so many midwestern children.
PatSeg
(47,430 posts)Also Americans as a rule tend to live in a bubble, where autocratic, oppressive governments happen to other people, in lands far, far away. Warfare happens "over there" and heavily bombed cities are in other countries. We can acknowledge the violence, pain, and loss, even donate money to help the many victims worldwide, but for the most part, people can't imagine all those horrible things happening here. We're better than that.
But of course, we are vulnerable as well. The same things that have brought down other democracies can bring down our's. The same right-wing, fascist elements we see in Eastern Europe exist here. The same kinds of people behind restrictive theocracies live in the United States.
Awhile back, I read Erik Larson's book, In the Garden of Beasts, about 1930's Germany and I could see how the Nazis gained power and I could also see it starting to happen here as well. We see the equivalent of the very violent Brownshirts carrying military style weapons, feeling entitled and encouraged by their leader.
Truly, it CAN happen here.
appalachiablue
(41,131 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,692 posts)The Q-Anon conspiracies and the Trump covid lies are the absurdities that a disturbing number of people actually believe. If not stopped, the atrocities will come from the same people.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)madaboutharry
(40,211 posts)(I know, Woody Allen, Ugh....)
But anyway, Max Von Sydow portrays the brooding artist and older lover of Barbara Hershey. He is sitting in their apartment, morose, and says:
"You missed a very dull TV show on Auschwitz. More gruesome film clips, and more puzzled intellectuals declaring their mystification over the systematic murder of millions. The reason they can never answer the question "How could it possibly happen?" is that it's the wrong question. Given what people are, the question is "Why doesn't it happen more often?"
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Sad, but true.
Disaffected
(4,554 posts)The Wiegers and Kurds haven't exactly fared very well either.
aidbo
(2,328 posts)Disaffected
(4,554 posts)I don't know where I picked that up. Googling "Wiegers china" comes up with articles about Uyghurs so maybe it's a more common misspelling(?) and, Google is smart enough to figure it out.
Other spellings BTW apparently are Uighurs, Uygurs, and Uigurs.
aidbo
(2,328 posts)Disaffected
(4,554 posts)I could swear I've seen it somewhere (maybe it was something I've written myself before )
Marcuse
(7,480 posts)msongs
(67,405 posts)erronis
(15,255 posts)Don't forget the unholy war against people-that-think.
Most of the sectarian cults would happily cut the throats and other atrocities of another cult brand, even in the Muslim, "christian", Jewish varieties.
I don't know too many "people-that-think" that want to kill/rape/maim others.
Sneederbunk
(14,290 posts)moondust
(19,981 posts)From 2012.
The research, led by David Dunning, a psychologist at Cornell University, shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people's ideas.
~
People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say
I've wondered about it for 50+ years. Germans were/are "smart" people. I lived in Berlin for more than a year in the 70s and rode the nice subways sometimes late at night without any worries about crime or anything. Everything seemed pretty normal and "advanced" inside the Wall. Of course there were also some greedy outsiders like Prescott Bush and Fred Koch who are partly to blame for the rise of the Nazis.
KT2000
(20,577 posts)It is a big part of who I am. And now after all these years the answer is obvious and defended by common citizens including once friends. My heart is broken.
uponit7771
(90,337 posts)DaisyTom
(57 posts)seems like bad people intuitively know how to manipulate the human psyche
we need real tools to understand, recognize and combat this
niyad
(113,303 posts)CloudWatcher
(1,848 posts)We know what is happening, additional study isn't really needed.
We're just afraid to do the right thing.
And that would be teaching everyone critical thinking in school. Get people to think and not just assume what they hear on TV (or from their friends, or pastors) is correct. Teach them that while tribalism is genetic, our tribe should be humans defending the planet from global warming. Teach science and demand extraordinary proof for extraordinary claims.
But yeah, that can't happen without a sea change because ... religion. And to a lesser, extent, capitalism. Our system is designed to produce willing consumers making money for the ones at the top .. who make all the rules to keep it that way.
I remember watching a few seconds of Fox the other day when they were doing the usual ridiculous spin on the news. What was interesting was the commercial break then went to an equally outlandish (and really obviously fraudulent) commercial trying to fleece their viewers.
Reminds me of the WC Fields line about "never smarten up a chump or give a sucker an even break." We have con men not just in the White House, but ruling the US and way too much of the rest of the world.
Education is the key. Trump's election was a clear indictment of our education system.
erronis
(15,255 posts)Now, to find another 100 meta-studies to pull those together.
And at least 20 learned papers to synthesize.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all. But these types of things seem to be studied to death. Papers are written and published. And here we are, again.
wendyb-NC
(3,327 posts)The individual occupying the oval office, at this time , makes it all too clear.
JI7
(89,249 posts)It didn't just come out of nowhere. People already had anti semitic views. They didn't need convincing that they were bad suspicious people. That's how they were already seen as.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,853 posts)Similar to the decades of right-wing media lies in the USA, but with a generally more disturbing racist message. (Although right-wingers here keep moving more that direction.)
The final blow to Germany's collective sanity happened after it was declared illegal to criticize Hitler or the Nazis, something else that Trump and his followers would like to adopt.
Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,654 posts)Tommymac
(7,263 posts)That is a huge indictment against our public education system.
I have toured the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC twice. So sad, horrifying, and eye opening. It has affected me every day of my life since.
"What You Do Matters"
I wish they could take the museum on a road show to every school district in the USA. It's that important.
appalachiablue
(41,131 posts)in DC has excellent educational outreach tools and resources for teachers and students.
Some of the issues around the lack of education and ignorance of the Holocaust has to do with individual school systems, budgets, policies and trained teachers.
I think only a handful of US states require teaching Holocaust Studies in public schools which is a real shame.
But some states have their own Holocaust collections, programs and museums.
Learning through in person visits to institutions is ideal, but when it's not possible the outreach programs offer excellent information and materials.
U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, Wash., DC, Teaching Resources, https://www.ushmm.org/teach
https://www.ushmm.org/outreach-programs/students/bringing-the-lessons-home
'First Person Podcasts' Interviews with Holocaust Survivors.
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)As I said, I have never been as moved or emotionally drained as I was after my visits there.
It is a must see, and I'm happy that they have such a great outreach program.
Harker
(14,018 posts)and still haven't figured that one out.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)The Science of Evil: On Empathy and the Origins of Cruelty
Less Than Human: We We Demean, Enslave, and Exterminate Others
Harker
(14,018 posts)pat_k
(9,313 posts)The Science of Evil: On Empathy and the Origins of Cruelty
Less Than Human: We We Demean, Enslave, and Exterminate Others
Dukkha
(7,341 posts)Enablers, ardent supporters and conspirators within the GOP fervently claiming they were merely following orders.
appalachiablue
(41,131 posts)for the past few days.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)COL Mustard
(5,897 posts)All you need is to divide the populace by demonizing one or more groups (Jews, homosexuals, intellectuals) and getting enough disenfranchised people to support you as you raise them up into positions of power. Then the good people of the country, who aren't affected, are busy with their lives and not noticing it until it's too late...and then, it's too late.
We all look at Nazi Germany as the prime exemplar, but there are so many other examples like Cambodia (the Killing Fields) and Rwanda (how many thousands killed in just a few short weeks, while most of us were busy going about our everyday lives?). Don't forget the Kurds, and I know I'm missing many others.
People are cruel, and cruelty can become commonplace easily.
OK, now I need a drink!
Darwin2019
(217 posts)the rise of authoritarians like Trump and Hitler
erronis
(15,255 posts)NNadir
(33,518 posts)...about her life as his slave.
I certainly understand the Holocaust better because of Trump, at least with respect to the slippery slope by which it happened.
One hopes that his entry into the "deaths caused" category will stop well short of Hitler's, but it certainly hasn't done any stopping yet.
patphil
(6,176 posts)CloudWatcher
(1,848 posts)The day Trump got the nomination, I gained empathy for the German people of the 1920s and 30s.
COL Mustard
(5,897 posts)And thank you for posting.
TxVietVet
(1,905 posts)My fathers Army unit secure a concentration camp to protect and help the prisoners. He said it shocked him and he wondered how this could have happened.
I believe we are watching the beginning of this again. All thanks to the Koch brothers and the teabaggers and conservanazis of the Republican Party. They are also demonizing the Democratic Party.
Hekate
(90,683 posts)...and by good fortune passed away in the fullness of time here in California.
I can safely say that we are both glad neither of them is alive to see whats happening in 2020.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I see clearly how people could have justified slavery.
People like Hitler, Trump and slave owners figure out a way to tap into peoples hatreds and darkest emotions.